M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: vatos_p on September 13, 2007, 12:26:39 PM
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new pics and dyno results from my car...
just to inform you , my car had a factory exhaust pipe ( changed it because of the noise ) and the ecu gone wrong and did not read the o2 sensor , and went rich on fuel in all revs...( that is a big problem and i am looking for a new ecu )...
anyway , with all that problems see the results...
i am working in 0.5 bar pressure , and stock compression , stock pistons - rods - crank - camshaft ... will be posting video of the dyno run soon...
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great setup!
wow, that's a great torque!
can you remember me what turbo is?
I see a/r .70 on compressor housing...
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garrett GT2540r , A.R. 70 , compressor A.R. 84 Turbine..
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You have plumbed AFM quite interesting way. I suppose you would have better results if you put AFM next to turbos compressor inlet. Thats how AFM's are usually installed on factory built systems which use AFM (Motronic), for example Porsche 944 Turbo.
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Looks like a fun setup. Do you have any pics and info on the exhaust manifold? Thanks.
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Nice coilpack relocation lol.
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Nice coilpack relocation lol.
Its not a bad idea keeping the coils on the cold side of the engine.
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Nice nice nice :) ... and 0.5 - 192 hp ... sounds good!
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Nice setup, looks very tidy. I like the guages in side the car too. Nicely fiited and the repositioning of the head unit was clever.
I'd like a few pics and some info on the eshaust manifold too if possible
How much power do ye reckon it should make when the Mangement is sorted?
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I still think you will get problems with your AFM installation. I suppose it would work better if you install it to turbo's compressor inlet. AFM's flapper will act quite odd way with boosted air.
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Do you have any parts list and maybe even a write up on the system. I had a SC in route to install. But decided to do more research between the two system Turbo or SC. I was leaning towards the SC due the maintenance aspect of it and the lag. Did you have the exhaust manifold custom made or did you do it yourself?
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if i change the management into a good working one , i suppose it will go 200+ hp , also about the aft setup , i have read a lot on how an afm works... the afm works with pressure difference , it is not as a butterfly , but it is a 90 degree angle , so when it works vacuum it works like no turbo was instaled , so the car works prefect , and when pressure comes on , it turns on full and sprays full , the rest is on piggyback ecu to prefect the fuel...
if you put it before the turbocharger , with my A.R .70 , with the slightest presure on the throtle petal , the turbine sucks so much air , that the afm will go fully open in 2000 rpm... that is not good , because pressure comes on in 3200 , so from 2000 rpm the ecu is spraying fully but the engine is still running vacuum ( like no turbo was instaled )...Don't forget that my engine setup from factoy has not changed...i have still factory internals with factory compression... so until the pressure comes on , the car works like factory one with 140 hp vaccum...
Also consider this : if you send compressed air into a tube 70mm ( afm ) more air get though , than try to suck air from a 70mm tube ( afm ) ... if you put the afm before turbocharger ( so the turbocharger suchs air through the afm ) then the turbo is chokes , saficated , but if you put it after , it just compresses air though the afm... my car is working prerfectly with this setup 5 months now with no problems... ( exept the latest with the ecu ) ...
But the best setup is , if you can cancel the AFM completly and work with a MAP Sensor ( Manifold Absolute Pressure ) so you don't have anything between the turbo and the throtle body and the ECU calculates Fuel spray with the vacuum or Pressure of the intake manifold... ( costs a lot but does the job )...
Pictures and list of my setup will soon be posted...be pacient..
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Hi vatos p,
do you have water-cooling lines hooked to the turbo?
Pics where they are taken from the car?
do you have a oil pump? if not there are oil pressure problems to feed the turbo?
please answer at least about watercooling lines...
thank you
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It's great to hear you have done it better than Bosch engineers... No offense, but i have to disagree what you wrote. Tell me even one factory turbo car with Bosch Motronic & AFM which is configured as your car is? There is no doupt your system will work, but i suppose it will work even better in the way Bosch designed it. I have played about ten years with Porsche 944 Turbo, which has a factory Motronic & AFM with turbo. I have used few piggypacks with MAF & MAP sensors. Piggypacks i have used are SMT6 & AFM Link. SMT6 works better with MAF sensor. AFM Link has a built in 2,5bar MAP sensor.
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Hi vatos p,
do you have water-cooling lines hooked to the turbo?
Pics where they are taken from the car?
do you have a oil pump? if not there are oil pressure problems to feed the turbo?
please answer at least about watercooling lines...
thank you
no , the turbocharger has watec cooling , but i have not connected it with water lines , and i have no problems...yes the pics are from my car , no oil pump was used , stock one is still running , no pressure problems even with oil cooler and turbocharger connected to the car... ( M42 is a great engine , with a litle help it can get even better !!! )
hope i helped...
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It's great to hear you have done it better than Bosch engineers... No offense, but i have to disagree what you wrote. Tell me even one factory turbo car with Bosch Motronic & AFM which is configured as your car is? There is no doupt your system will work, but i suppose it will work even better in the way Bosch designed it. I have played about ten years with Porsche 944 Turbo, which has a factory Motronic & AFM with turbo. I have used few piggypacks with MAF & MAP sensors. Piggypacks i have used are SMT6 & AFM Link. SMT6 works better with MAF sensor. AFM Link has a built in 2,5bar MAP sensor.
may i remind you of your words !!!! these are Stock ( factory ) turbocharged cars with AFM.... So Motronic ( and i guess not motronic 1.7 as M42 ) is preset from the factory with a mapping to work like that... My , Our motronic 1.7 , i set to work in that exact place , with vacuum pressure only , the mapping is for stock car from the factory and not turbocharged...
think this only... the AFM is about 20cm away from the intake butterfly... when you press the accelaration petal , vacuum drags air and opens the AFM almost instantly...so the ecu knows that when the throtle is pressed almost instantly air get into the intake ( passing through the AFM and mesured by ) so it knows how much to spray for that air... if you change the possition of the AFM in front of the turbocharger , when you press the throtle , the ecu reads that you have pressed the throtle with the TPS , the AFM reads that air passed though it , and the ecu begins to spray , but the air that the AFM read is not inside the intake anymore , because it has to pass though the turbocharger , though the intercooler , through all the piping to get to the intake , is not 20cm anymore but 1,45m - 1,60m , so all that gasoline that the stock motronic 1.7 sprayed is useless for that specific time... so the engine will be working wrong and more fuel will be sprayed for nothing...Then in more rpm , lets say 2300 rpm , with the turbo spinning a lot , but vacuum still , ( pressure comes on in 3000 rpm and full boost at 4000rpm ) the AFM will read full vacuum because the air that the turbo sucks in is much more than vacuum stock car at full throtle , so motronic thinks that you are at full throtle with stock car , and sprays like you where at full boost , but you are only in 1/4 of the throtle and going with 2300 rpm...so more fuel will be wasted for nothing...All that becuse the AFM works with pressure diference between the 2 angles that it has...in front of the turbocharger it has vacuum from the turbocharger and atmosphere presure from the other way...but where i have it , i has vacuum pressure form the intake and not atmosphere pressure from the other , but the air coming from the turbocharger witch is always different ( depends on how you drive , how much throtle you have , and rpm ) so it reads more efficiently ... think about it...
there is a slight difference between stock turbocharged car and a car that was designed and mapped non turbo , and a crazy dude like me turbocharged it...
And finaly , Yes i have done it better than Bosch engineers , and BMW engineers because i have puled put 200 hp from a car the comes with 136hp from factory without problems , without damage , and with the less possible increase of fuel consumpion...
what do you say about that.. ???
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Porsche 944 turbo's Motronic is even older than M42 engines have. 944 Turbo came to the market in June 1985. Same Motronic was used between 1985-1987. For model year 1988 Motronic was changed a little bit when they moved from 4K 24 pin eproms to 8K 28 pin ones. Then they were able to place all parts of fuel & ignition maps to same place. Motronic version did not changed, all 24 pin Motronics can be easily convert to 28 pins. Have done many of them.
Motronic actually does not know there is a turbo installed. There is an additional computer called KLR handling pressure/knock etc. So in that case there is no advantage compared to turboed M42 engine what comes to Motronic, of course chips map is designed to turbo charged car.
Only the boost control & knock is handled with KLR box which drives cyclic valve and wastegate. I still prefer the way Bosch designed it, also your car should work better the "Bosch-way", there might be a need for remap the chip, but i suppose also with your way to install AFM (with turbo) you cannot have optimal A/F ratio just with piggyback and standard chip and it would be good to have your cars chip optimize for turbo application