M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
FAQ / REFERENCE => How-To's => Topic started by: D. Clay on August 31, 2007, 04:29:41 PM
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Upper water outlet capped off at head.
Lower water line capped on plastic pipe on the side of the block.
Throttle body on intake with shortened studs.
PCV line from valve cover to throttle body.
Air inlet to idle control valve.
Lines at ICV valve.
To close off the water circuit, I used rubber heater hose caps from the "Help" section at the auto parts store. The line from the valve cover to the throttle body runs direct. Half inch heavy duty heater hose runs from the intake boot to the bottom of the ICV with a 90 degree plastic connector on both ends. The section from the ICV to the intake is under vacuum and needs to be stiff. With a third 90 degree connector, the hose is supported. The mount bracket holding the ICV valve to the intake was bent slightly at the intake to move the ICV inlet toward the firewall. The inlet is right over the hose to the heater originally. Moving it toward the firewall gives more that enough clearance. The maze of siamese hoses under the intake is gone. No problems with over heating due to the water outlets in the head being capped. I heard from another M42 owner that has a track car with no heater. He has a hose looping from the throttle body heater outlet to the heater outlet with no overheating problems.
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Wait, so it's safe to completely remove the hose connecting the "coolant pipe" to the cylinder head outlet? I just looped mine and now I think I'm going to completely remove the hose like you!
I'm not sure what you are trying to explain in the bottom paragraph about the ICV connections and such. Could you show us some more pictures to explain?
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+1
I went to a lot of trouble tying to fit a lenght of hose between the 2 ports when I got rid of that mess of hoses. I was tempted to do the same thing but I think that port is important for removing hot coolant from the middle of the head. Thats the spot where the head typically cracks when its overheated. Please update after you have a few hundred miles on the setup. If this turns out to be safe I would be happy to do the same thing.
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I thought of that also, but the there's no outlet between cylinders 1 and 2 and BMW doesn't put the TB heater on tropical models. They also make shorter TB studs for the tropical model (M6 X 28 vs. M6 X 40). http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF91&mospid=47256&btnr=11_0953&hg=11&fg=40
I think it would be more critical on the exhaust side but there's no outlets there at all. Old small block Chevrolet's had a problem on the exhaust side where the two center cylinders had the exhaust ports next to each other. The solution was to add a bleeder for steam there and run the lines to the thermostat housing. It wasn't always successful.
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Well they still put on the lower TB heater on the tropical mode. #11.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF91&mospid=47256&btnr=11_0560&hg=11&fg=35
But I think even if the heater isn't used at all, you still need that hose to carry hot coolant away from the head in order to maintain an even temperature between all 4 cyls. Have you driven the car yet with this setup? I'm all for deleting the TB heater along with all the messed up hoses under the intake but I wouldn't want to be the first to experiment with completely plugging up the coolant ports.
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+1 to tjts1
I am also planning to remove both heater plates from my car, and this seems significantly easier than trying to make other lines fit, if it is safe for the engine.
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one question forthose of you you live in high humidity relatively cold places that have removed the TB heater: have you noticed any difference? im only asking because i have been thinking about it but im afraid of getting ice buildup in the winter. the M42 is such a great breathing motor so the humid air could easily cause buildup (very small amounts) inside the TB.
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Anyone else plugged the opening the head?
Link to thread with pics of two cracked heads, both with cracks between exhaust valves and the water jacket.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3427&highlight=head
Is this where the heads usually crack? I haven't driven the car yet as it's still going back together. I am also searching for references to this on the E30 sites.
I just noticed after reading the above thread that there are only very small holes in the head gasket by the exhaust valves. Anyone know the reason for this? The water jackets are almost completely covered.
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My view is that the pipe marked in green is a suction point, that is connected to the suction side of the waterpump. This pipe is responsible for pulling hot water through the heater core through the hose # 23. When the heater is set to cold no water flows through #23.
Also the throttle body heater loop is driven through this suction pipe, the throttle body heater draws its hot water through the connection marked in red. I'm pretty sure that this connections primary reason for being there is to supply the hot water for the throttle body heater. Not to supply extra cooling for the head at this location.
The water circuit is in my understanding like this:
The water gets drawn through the block. and flows internally through the oilpump housing to the thermostat, where it's either pumped through the head. And further down the block again. Unless the thermostat redirects the flow through the radiator. In this instance cooler water is added to the circuit, until the thermostat is cooled enough to close the radiator off.
In my view it makes no difference if the water is recirculated through the red outlet and the system of hoses and heat exchangers or through the block in it's usual path.
On my engine the hoses: 11+13+16+25+26+17+18+14+15 will all be deleted, and the red outlet pluged.
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I just noticed after reading the above thread that there are only very small holes in the head gasket by the exhaust valves. Anyone know the reason for this? The water jackets are almost completely covered.
Please read the above post and rethink your question. Then i'm sure you'll have the answer.. :-p
Well as the water starts it's jurney through the front of the head and needs to cool all four cylinders, the cooling system would actually be better off without the small holes. Notish that on the fourth cylinder theres a fully open path for the cooling water to entr the block, and flow towards the first cylinder and eventually reach the pump..... (If all the small holes were fully opened the fourth cylinder would see very little coolant flow)
The only reason for the small holes is to be able to bleed the system, if they were not there air pockets would be able to be trapped there.
Hope this makes sense.
(http://m42club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=729&stc=1&d=1169746925)
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Looking at the picture above, hose #4 connects through fitting 6 to water pipe circled in green. The other end of hose #4 goes to the bottom of the radiator on the left side. This smaller hose takes hot coolant from the water pipe to the radiator all the time and is not regulated by the thermostat. Its not big enough to cool the entire engine but it helps maintain a constant temperature across the length of the engine.
Put another way, the water pipe is an outlet. It is fed by the block, the small port on the side of the head between cyl 2 and 3, and by hose 22 coming from the heater. When the thermostat is fully closed, this water pipe functions as a small bypass to prevent pressure from building up in the head and block.
The only reason for the small holes is to be able to bleed the system, if they were not there air pockets would be able to be trapped there.
So if we plug up the small port between cyl 2 and 3, air would also get trapped in the head and cause that area to overheat.
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Looking at the picture above, hose #4 connects through fitting 6 to water pipe circled in green. The other end of hose #4 goes to the bottom of the radiator on the left side. This smaller hose takes hot coolant from the water pipe to the radiator all the time and is not regulated by the thermostat. Its not big enough to cool the entire engine but it helps maintain a constant temperature across the length of the engine.
Put another way, the water pipe is an outlet. It is fed by the block, the small port on the side of the head between cyl 2 and 3, and by hose 22 coming from the heater. When the thermostat is fully closed, this water pipe functions as a small bypass to prevent pressure from building up in the head and block.
So if we plug up the small port between cyl 2 and 3, air would also get trapped in the head and cause that area to overheat.
I think you're telling me i got the direction of flow wrong...
Well i dont think so, please have a look at the direction of flow arrows on the hoses #23 + #22, if water was to be flowing from the block out the green connector we would have a collision of water there.
BMW calls the hoses by these names also:
22 : Water hose outlet (Outlet from the heater core)
23 : Water hose inlet (Inlet to the heater core)
The hose #4 is the circuits connection to the expansion tank, and the system will draw from this resaouir when ever it needs to.
Also have a look at the pump propeller wheel which i added for refrence. The engine would have to be turnng backwards for the water to flow in your suggested direction :-P
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EDIT:
Looking at it again, I think you are correct about the flow direction.
I still don't think that blocking off that port is a great idea. But if somebody is willing to try it and prove me wrong I'm willing to listen. I would love to plug up the port instead of the hose I have in there now if its proven safe.
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Original post updated 9/6/2007.
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I deleted the heater on my M20 TB a loooong time ago...no problems to date. Much easier to do on that engine though.
I don't like those "Help!" section caps. They scare me too much to use them in this application. They're not braided rubber and have a tendency to breakdown with the hot/cold cycles. Not sure what else you could use...maybe a short length of hose with a plug clamped on the end.
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On my engine the hoses: 11+13+16+25+26+17+18+14+15 will all be deleted, and the red outlet pluged.
Why is it that you can't simply connect the red square nipple with a hose coming from the green circled pipe nipple (near clamp 20)?
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Anyone else plugged the opening the head?
Link to thread with pics of two cracked heads, both with cracks between exhaust valves and the water jacket.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3427&highlight=head
Is this where the heads usually crack? I haven't driven the car yet as it's still going back together. I am also searching for references to this on the E30 sites.
I just noticed after reading the above thread that there are only very small holes in the head gasket by the exhaust valves. Anyone know the reason for this? The water jackets are almost completely covered.
I believe I mentioned the answer in the thread...
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Why is it that you can't simply connect the red square nipple with a hose coming from the green circled pipe nipple (near clamp 20)?
I could do that, but in my opinion that would not be the simplest approach.
Why would i connect the two points together when i want to cancel the whole arrangement.
And the water that gets looped through the system is not cooling cylinder # 4 either.
So in my opinion this is the best solution, atleast for me
:-p
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So has anybody plugged up the 2 ports in question and driven the car any distance yet? Im really interested to see how this turns out. Do we have a difinative answer?
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So has anybody plugged up the 2 ports in question and driven the car any distance yet? Im really interested to see how this turns out. Do we have a difinative answer?
No problems here. I took it out on a two lane and ran it 80 to 85 MPH for about 3 miles. Gauge never moved.
I'll use some braided hose with plugs clamped in them but I'm tired of thrashing on it right now. The "Help" caps should last for a month or two at the least. It's only 16 pounds pressure.
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Cool. Did you have any trouble bleeding the system or did the normal procedure work to get all the air bubbles out.
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The bleed screw on my radiator stripped a few years ago. I bleed it by taking the upper hose loose and holding it up higher than the radiator. It works just as well but you spill some putting it back on. No problems bleeding but I had to do it a second time because I forgot to turn the heater on.
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I was looking through an M42 build thread from South Africa and noticed the bolt between cyl 2 and 3.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200262.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200263.jpg)
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433471&page=3
I guess this modification is totally safe after all.
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Did he tap the nipple? Or is a bolt simply welded in place? Interesting...
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I'm not sure what you are trying to explain in the bottom paragraph about the ICV connections and such. Could you show us some more pictures to explain?
In it's original location, the bottom line out of the ICV valve is right over the heater hose. The OEM BMW hose has a sharp 90 degree bend. #13 in the realoem pic. Bracket #9 is the one I bent to move the ICV hose to clear the heater hose.
The South African M42 has a good solution to the possible leak problem.
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I just plugged both hoses, and removed the plates completely.
Works fine! I use the car every day, and have driven about 6000km with no heat plates. :)
Christophbmw: I haven't tried the car in cold weather with this setup yet. But the TB did freeze up sometimes in cold winter weather WITH the heat plates still on. I think this was caused by the open air filter (KN) I used.
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What is the point to delete the heater plate??
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To get rid of all the hoses under the intake.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
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To get rid of all the hoses under the intake.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
Pics no workie Justin.
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They still work on my end. Hit reload. Flickr is fickle sometimes.
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After looking at that thread again, I think I need to take my car into auto tech and do some cleaning.
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Does anyone make or sell an aftermarket revision made of aluminum to replace the factory black plastic coolant tube that is on the driver's side of the block?
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Wow, I should have read this thread sooner. I just got my cabrio back from the shop where I had them refresh the cooling system... they replaced almost all of the pieces you guys have removed for this mod. Oh well.
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Well, I'm in the process of removing intake manifold and I decided to remove those hoses.
Can some on write excact instructions what hoses should be removed (write numbers of hoses indicated in realoem to be removed) and how the circulation is redirected or capped.
Help is truly appreciated.
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Anyone do this mod and still pass smog testing? I'm not sure what it's called in other states, but in california it is SMOG.
Just worried because I was thinking of doing this, but my tag renewal is this month, and I have to take it for smog testing again.
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I passed in Texas. The heated throttle body is mainly for warmup and very low ambient temperatures. Some M42 export models didn't have the system at all. Tropical models deleted it altogether. A shorter stud for the throttle body is listed in realoem.com.
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I just went the cheap route since my hoses were still good - I deleted the coolant hoses from the mix and removed the aluminum "U" tube. The heater plate is still there, it just doesn't have coolant flowing thru it.
As for the parts to delete, someone posted them in this thread previously.
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Ok, now I got it. Actually this thread gives better picture of the "short cut" of the hoses. http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
The pic showing the short cut:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg
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Well, here is the picture of re-route. Black water hose connects now the plug in block and lower water hose.
Also I started to change the blower motor but the motor was wrong one...
Next thing is to change fuel filter and control arm on drivers side (other side is already done)
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4408/kuva002bum9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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Bumping an old thread... but just wanted to show my appreciation for the guys who posted this. Performed this hose cleanup today and am very happy with the results. Far less failure points than having all those hoses coming off the 4 way jobs.
Any other suggestions for plugging the coolant line on the block and the coolant pipe? I just used the "help" section coolant system bypass plugs, but don't know how long they are good for. Anyone run them for any length of time yet?
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Just wanted to bump and see, after a few months, if anybody has any stories from plugging/rerouting the hose.
Everybody who plugged it still doing good?
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Still good. I have driven about 5000km and 5 track days during this summer.
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I just ran it at our local 1/4 mile raceway yesterday in 85 degree F weather. Was expecting some cooling issues, but didn't have any. Ran it 4 times with a few being back to back with no engine shut off. No problems at all.
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So everyone is using the "help" caps then? Or has someone found something more substantial?
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just finishing up mine today, the help caps is the way I went
however the smaller cap is as thick as a condom, but it fits right inside a 5/8 cap which I needed for the black pipe cap. so I put the 1/2 in the 5/8 for the head port. might be overkill, but I could not trust the 1/2 inch cap alone
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Has anyone made a definitive part number list of stuff we'll need for the delete? I've looked through this and the "Mess under the intake" thread, but haven't seen an actual list.
I'm not clear on what size the coolant hose you guys are using for the do-it-yourself bends is...
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i used about 4 inches of 1/2" insulated heater hose(make sure its for high heat i melted one heated hose)...it's a bit hard to get it on the lower part, just put as bit of motor oil on your pinkey finger, and it should slide on down onto it, just with a little effort....then plug the other end on to the head.
so again,
about 1 foot (its sold by the foot here, so just cut it to like 4 inches or so) of the 1/2" insulated heater hose.
and 2 metal hose clamps
thats all.
oh and..dont forget to tighten everything down properly, and to bleed the system of any air when your done...or you'll be on red about 1/2 mile down the road. ;)
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WARNING!guys who live in the cold: im not already sure about that but if you remove the heater plate, the throttle body freezes up and causes the car to rev high without your aprouval! so -20C isnt the best range to ride this mod. just wanted to say so that you know what can happen.
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WARNING!guys who live in the cold: im not already sure about that but if you remove the heater plate, the throttle body freezes up and causes the car to rev high without your aprouval! so -20C isnt the best range to ride this mod. just wanted to say so that you know what can happen.
bet.
since mine's been deleted, i took it up into the mountains, and it got to that temp, if not well below, and it didnt do that...
thats just a "myth" i do believe.
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i used about 4 inches of 1/2" insulated heater hose(make sure its for high heat i melted one heated hose)...it's a bit hard to get it on the lower part, just put as bit of motor oil on your pinkey finger, and it should slide on down onto it, just with a little effort....then plug the other end on to the head.
so again,
about 1 foot (its sold by the foot here, so just cut it to like 4 inches or so) of the 1/2" insulated heater hose.
and 2 metal hose clamps
thats all.
oh and..dont forget to tighten everything down properly, and to bleed the system of any air when your done...or you'll be on red about 1/2 mile down the road. ;)
Cool. So, 1/2" high temp heater hose.
As far as all the OEM parts, have you ever seen a list of part numbers that someone would need to order in order to complete the hose refresh/TB plate delete/etc?
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Personally, I'm not a big fan of the Help! caps. On my last project car, I capped off the unneeded hoses by replacing the to-be-deleted hoses with a 3" or so piece, that had a threaded bolt a size larger than the ID of the hose, threads covered with some RTV and clamped or double-clamped inside the new bit of hose. Would that work well in this instance? I never had a problem with it on vac and coolant hoses on a 12A rotary engine.
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since mine's been deleted, i took it up into the mountains, and it got to that temp, if not well below, and it didnt do that...
thats just a "myth" i do believe.
There may be a greater chance of "throttle body icing" at warmer temps with the right atmospheric humidity and air velocity.
Do a search for "carb or throttle body icing" for more details. I picked this one as an example (Ref post #3) http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f5/tb-hoses-leaking-coolant-108342/
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There may be a greater chance of "throttle body icing" at warmer temps with the right atmospheric humidity and air velocity.
Do a search for "carb or throttle body icing" for more details. I picked this one as an example (Ref post #3) http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f5/tb-hoses-leaking-coolant-108342/
i know what it is, but it doesn't happen often or if at all on a e30, unless its just a freak instance..
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Cool. So, 1/2" high temp heater hose.
As far as all the OEM parts, have you ever seen a list of part numbers that someone would need to order in order to complete the hose refresh/TB plate delete/etc?
I have a list of the part numbers I bought when I did this. I can post them up tomorrow.
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I have a list of the part numbers I bought when I did this. I can post them up tomorrow.
That would be awesome. I'm looking to do it this weekend.
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Plastic water pipe: 11-53-1-714-738
Lower Intake Manifold Gasket: 11-61-1-734-684
Upper Intake Manifold Gasket: 11-61-1-717-761
Valve Cover Breather Hose: 11-15-1-717-858
Throttle Body Gasket: 13-54-1-743-261
ICV Hoses: 13-41-1-721-971, 13-41-1-721-972
BMW Antifreeze: 82-14-1-467-704
For the throttle body studs, I ordered a set of the shorter ones that were supposedly used on the "tropical" models (pn: 07-12-9-908-111). But they seemed too short, if I had to do it again I would shorten the stock ones or find some at the hardware store.
To plug the extra ports on the plastic water pipe, I used the old hose cut with a bolt+silicone+hose clamps. So far so good.
You can get more details on how I put mine all together at the link in my sig. Its also good time to freshen up your fuel injectors and check the vacuum hose on your fuel pressure regulator. I think thats everything, have fun.
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I just put the heater plate back on with nothing hooked to it to take up the difference and to keep more throttled volume for better mid range. The hose that comes off the top of the plastic pipe that you would normally plug can simply be plugged into the head. Now both are sealed and flowing just like the factory intended and you don't have to buy anything or use shitty caps that will split in no time. I've done this setup twice and it works perfectly and you don't have to worry about anything.
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EDIT: nevermind what i wrote, i was wrong
There are definitely many ways of going about this project. It all depends on how ghetto vs clean you want it to look in the end.
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I agree, connecting the in and out directly with a factory hose is the cleanest way possible and the safest/longest lasting. The heater/spacer plate looks just the same with nothing connected so when you're done it looks just like it did except no more heater lines waiting to crack. I also used new vacuum/coolant hoses for the PCV and idle control valve so that it all looks stock, just doesn't have the metal pipe running through them.
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I'm planning on replacing all the hoses as well as deleting the heater plates. I'm wondering what people are doing about the outlet between the 2nd and 3rd cylinder. Is a simple cap sturdy enough? I know I read some doubts about it's ability hold up (semi) permanently. Or are most of you guys bolting and welding it off. I'm a little nervous about the permanent nature of it as well as I don't have access to a welder (suppose I could find someone at a shop to do it). Just kinda looking for the final say on the outlet. Thanks
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I'm planning on replacing all the hoses as well as deleting the heater plates. I'm wondering what people are doing about the outlet between the 2nd and 3rd cylinder. Is a simple cap sturdy enough? I know I read some doubts about it's ability hold up (semi) permanently. Or are most of you guys bolting and welding it off. I'm a little nervous about the permanent nature of it as well as I don't have access to a welder (suppose I could find someone at a shop to do it). Just kinda looking for the final say on the outlet. Thanks
Plug it into the block coolant hose.
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So, has it been 100% confirmed that by plugging the port on the coolant PIPE and plugging the port on the HEAD will not ever cause any detrimental effects to the head and/or engine?
The below pic is of the "tropical/African" solution on an M42 that was rebuilt by a user on bimmerforums (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433471&page=3) - note the plugged coolant pipe port & plugged port on head:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/gizmo316i/M42/PB200262.jpg)
Currently, on my M42 the factory "medusa" hosing under the intake has all been deleted when the engine was rebuilt. However, there still remains a single rubber hose going from the black coolant pipe to the port on the head (pretty much like how M42 Member tjts1 had originally modified his M42 and was posted in a prior thread of his)... If this single looped hose on my M42 is deleted as has been done w/ the above pic, will there be ANY cooling issues at all?? Has the thought & discussion been 100% confirmed that such a deletion can be accomplished with no ill or adverse effects on the head and/or engine?
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If you consider the rather large number of people who have done it I would say you already have your confirmation. If you follow the coolant flow that is nothing more than a minor bypass, it will otherwise go through the motor as intended. The coolant would normally be coming out of the head and into the plastic pipe so bypassing it simply makes it run through the head and out with the rest of the coolant into the right side of the radiator. The preheater offered no heat dissipation or routing of any value.
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That may be, but I'm not sure I would consider the method of closing off the passages as good practice. I'd rather put a hose on there connecting the two nipples than risk the bolt cracking the plastic nipple. Threading the metal nipple is chancy especially with a steel bolt.
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anyways, i guess ive got a really weird car, cause it happens at least every night, and tonight it was about -10C, and when i turn off the car, wait 30 seconds, it goes fine after. dont really understand, i wish itll be good when its hot outside.
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anyways, i guess ive got a really weird car, cause it happens at least every night, and tonight it was about -10C, and when i turn off the car, wait 30 seconds, it goes fine after. dont really understand, i wish itll be good when its hot outside.
WHAT???????????? does this even pertain to this thread?
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well im sorry cobra if im not in the good thread, but this problem occured about 5 minutes after this mod, and it didnt happen before so go find out!
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The previous owner did this mod to some degree. I tried checking online and looked through this thread, but I couldnt find the answer. What does this mod do?
What are the pros and cons of this mod? Here is what my engine bay looks like. Does it look like it was done correctly?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Glaydor/SSC_8392.jpg)
Without boot/airbox
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Glaydor/DSC_8406.jpg)
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dont use the helper block off caps !!!!!
well at least I would not. I did the delete in december, and ran the hose loop, not the caps.
however I also deleted my ac, and for the time being just cut off the large metal pipe where it passes next to the strut tower. to clean it up I put on one of thos eblock off caps . here 8 months later, the cap is all cracked to crap, would hate to see how long it would last with pressure and hot water
next time I have to pull the intake, I think Ill do that bolt cap off on the head and hose re-route since some of you are having no problmes with it
and Ill get rid of the rest of the ac lines, when I do my heater core :( before this winter
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I did the removal used a rubber heater hose cap for the plastic part and a plug for the head part as they did not have a cap in that size. I also straped the ICV to the mainifold using some zipties, im not liking it very much. But it will do for now untill my holidays when i pull it all apart again to paint it, then ill clean it up a bit more. Other wise it has been great.
Ill post some pics tonigh for yal.
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..i'm gonna cap mine in a week or so. already bypassed the medusa on the ICV and Valve cover breather, just left the coolant lines of the medusa where they were - oddly enough mine had the medusa lines but no heater plate at all...? go figure.
this will happen after i do the TRE340 that i just ordered like 30minutes ago.
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got into it and there is a heater bulb attached to the bottom of the TB, no plate sandwiched between the TB and IManifold like i've seen on all other m42s. I'm gonna try the Rubber Caps.
I'll keep you all updated with the aging process.
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Great thread I will be doing this very soon.
Anyone in California having issues with SMOG after doing all this?
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Great thread I will be doing this very soon.
Anyone in California having issues with SMOG after doing all this?
I'm in california. Two visits to a test only station and no issues with smog.
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Have done this mod just because it is such a pain in the nuts to remove the TB everytime I need to take the intake off. A lot easyer to take it off right now. E36 M42
The first observation: increased fuel consumption with 1l-1,5l/100km. No other problem whatsoever.
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Upper water outlet capped off at head.
Where can I buy some caps like that?
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About a year ago I did a "half delete" meaning that I deleted just one of the 2 heater plates.
(http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/c/c/10.png)
I left connected just the small U-shaped one bellow the TB which can be removed very easy without disconnecting the hoses.
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Where can I buy some caps like that?
Got mine at pep boys in the "help" section. I used these caps at the block and on the coolant pipe. I did this "mod" for the second time about 8 months ago and the rubber caps are dry rotting, but they should be ok....for now. I doubled up the caps on the engine block.
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What is the point to delete the heater plate??
I dont like my TB to be heated.:confused:
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got question guys
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The gaskets I had on the heater plate & throttle body were metal. Replacement is paper. Is there any reason for that. Can you reuse metal intake gaskets :confused:
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They were metal to transfer the heat better. If you want more isolation use the paper ones.
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I just removed the throttlebody heaterplate on mine... well removed not.
Disconnected it, because it was leaking engine coolant into the inlet manifold, and thus the engine.
I left the heaterplate between the inlet manifold and the throttle body otherwise it might screw up the mixture.
As i live in italy.. it hardly get's cold, getting so subzero cold air into the engine should not be a big problem.
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just finished mine tonight (as well as a host of other things) and to clear up some of the issues here. the reason for the TB heater is to help pass smog, as your fuel vapors and valve cover breather routes right back into the intake PRIOR to the TB, which will ultimately help the evaporation and atomisation of the vapors.
ALSO, dont worry about capping the hole on the side of the block, as the M44 doesnt have this. It has another one of those plastic pipes on the back of the cylinder head, and im fairly certain that the M44 and M42 share the same coolant passages on the block/cylinder head. And also the M44 did not have the TB heater plate, so it is perfectly safe to assume that the reason for that is for the TB heater plate.
Also, you could make the point that re-routing that hole in the side of the block actually hurts you, as you would be diverting coolant away from the back of the cylinder head. But, of course the water pump is perfectly strong enough to get it flowing all the way to the back, so this might not be the case. BUT, rest assured that by re-routing it your are most definitely NOT helping the engine in any way.
The TB heater plate does NOT help in warming the car up. the coolant passing through it is cold, and only heats up as the engine already is.
The TB heater plate does NOT help in removing ice on the TB. same issue, are you getting ice before you start the car, or is it happening once the car is already fully warmed up?
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I'd suspect 95% of the world has no real need for that heater. Possibly some high-altitude driving on cool wet days with big throttle inputs can ice that throttle body up a bit. A little bit of vacuum can ice carb or TBI butterflies at a surprisingly high outdoor temp...well over freezing if it's a very wet day. Multipoint injection systems like the M42 aren't usually susceptible to this, though potentially it could happen in pretty extreme climates.
My theory is that since aluminum heads & intakes radiate (lose) much more heat than plastic or cast iron...the TB heater helps to regulate heat in the system. I'd suspect that removing some variables from the motor's operating parameters helps the engineers to tune it properly. The heater also increases mileage slightly & decreases emissions. Warm air & fuel is slightly better for efficiency/mileage. A higher temperature thermostat will help mileage as well. Neither are good for power though. The more of a difference you can make in heating up the air, the more power the motor can make. Denser cool air can make more power but (of course) burns more fuel.
It'd be great to have a mod that worked both ways, but you can't get something for nothing. Maybe a flap that pulls warm air off the exhaust when idling but cold air at WOT.
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note* i was buzzed when i wrote that last night. the M44 DOES have a heater plate in there, but it is filled from the back of the cylinder head, not from the middle.
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Quick one for the group. I have completed my own "delete" and am putting it back together. However, I also replaced all the heater hoses going into the firewall. I saw another thread where the auxillary thermostat was simply deleted and I did the same but before I put everything back together again, I wanted to ask if this is a good idea or if I should cut the new hoses and splice in the aux. thermostat. It seems it was installed after the fact for a recall, so I think it will work fine without it, but just thought I would ask. Thanks.
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Did the delete about 3 weeks ago on my m42. I capped both of the coolant passages and have had 0 issues so far. I will post pics of the caps and my vaccuum solutions in the next couple days.
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I've had my throttle body deleted for about a year now. The rubber intake boot has to stretch a little farther because of the mod. I've noticed that my 1 year old boot is starting to show signs of cracking already - possibly due to it being stretched. Does anyone else have this issue?
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What is best?
Option 1: Capping of the input and the output of the TB heater plate.
or
Option 2: Installing a bypass between the input and the output of the TB heater plate.
Thank you.
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Personally I wanted to be safe so i bought hose number 16 and 18 in the below picture cut a piece off the pipe(26) to join the two and used some hose clamps. There is no stretching at all on the hoses they all line up and fit perfect like it's ment to be.
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii19/Lastwords_Screenshots/Partsdiagram.png)
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I just did this! So nice to finally get rid of all that crap... always wondered if i could, but never took the time to mess with it.
Did the hose delete as part of the injector swap... made a hose barb out of aluminum on my lathe to make it easy to get from the smaller port between cyl 2 and 3, over to the plastic manifold nipple. Figured that was as easy as turning a couple of hose caps and it took the same amount of hose clamps too...
So much easier than replacing all those hoses - which i priced once (and even replaced a couple years ago) at about $150 for all (if i remember right).
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+1 on that...mine is freshly out! I can't wait to see how the car feels with a tight intake.
Broke the plastic coolant manifold, but other than that all is going well. Did everyone use the OEM paper gaskets? I noted that the head doesn't exactly line up with the lower intake...has anyone ever ported that little bit of shrouding out?
I'm also planning on a catch can (re-purposed 1/4" compressor water trap from Home Depot's auto performance section). I've seen a few nice examples but haven't had much feedback. Anyone?
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I want to get rid of the mess under the intake as well. I am not sure whether to go the cap route, or go with a hose that connects the heater manifold to the nipple in the engine. One snag on this is the manifold is, as I understand it, about 5/8 of an inch, while the nipple on the head is about 1/2 inch. Has anyone tried using a peice of expansion hose, where it has the larger end and then goes down to smaller hose? Its about 10 bucks or so for the extra hose, but you can probably use the other part too on your fabrication of a new system. I just may do that, when I buy all the other hoses and gaskets and stuff to do this job so it lasts a while.
Geoff
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Geoff - I purchased a silicone hose kit and used a piece that was good enough to stretch over the water outlet pipe end (hose 18) and to the nipple (hose 16). I clamped both ends and called it good. Hasn't had one leak yet!
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yeah, I can see that working as well. The silicone hose is a little easier to stretch over a slightly larger port than the regular rubber hose is
Geoff
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Hi!
I removed the heater plates a few days ago. No problem at all! I'll give feedback in winter, it's pretty cold here in Hungary in winter, about -15C.
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hey gotta question. im ordering all my parts now for mess under the intake.. and i want to be sure my vacuum hoses do not collapse. wat type of hose should i order? im gettting all my parts through pelican but if there are better hoses at auto store i would prefer to pick those up. im getting 5/8 heater hose, 19/32 vacuum hose. where should i get the hose from is wat im tryin to ask i guess.. any help would be appreciated