M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS

DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: rob_e30 on August 13, 2007, 12:21:25 AM

Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 13, 2007, 12:21:25 AM
As some of you know, I reported dyno numbers on the racing project I've been building.  We took it to the track today with fantastic results.  The car ran in 5 lapping sessions without any problems.  Well, there was one problem... it was scary fast!

Given the length of the project, and the fact that we're months behind schedule it's been almost a year since Paul (better driver of the two) or me (better mechanic of the two) have been on a track.  By the second session of the day Paul had dropped 7 seconds off his best lap time with the M20 and turned fastest lap of the day for his HPDE Goup 3.

We were at Willowsprings, in the desert north of Los Angeles.  Here is a pic, as well as a link to a video that shows Paul passing a 350Z on the front straight.  His group consisted of many cars that could have been quicker include a new Vette and a couple of Porsches including a late model turbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QslF_OZkW4M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QslF_OZkW4M)
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: jpod999 on August 13, 2007, 12:24:31 AM
Damn dude, that's sick.  Now I want some in-car video too.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: nickmpower on August 13, 2007, 01:12:54 AM
Yeah in-car video for sure, dont think i dont see that camera on the roll bar!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 13, 2007, 06:15:17 PM
Here's the in-car footage.  Just a single lap, and later in this same session he took 9 seconds off this time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfzJ5wSd3cQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfzJ5wSd3cQ)
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: e9nine on August 13, 2007, 06:29:06 PM
Congrats on getting it on the track :D Now let's go get some trophies :cool: You're running in DM right?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Vladi on August 14, 2007, 02:58:08 AM
Sweeeeet. :D
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: turbo_negro69 on August 14, 2007, 10:52:05 PM
when you passed the 350Z all could say out loud was
 "WHOOO-HOO-HOOO!!!":D
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: n2motorsports on August 15, 2007, 10:30:11 AM
how fast were you going on the front strights?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Abrax on August 15, 2007, 11:04:30 AM
NNnnniiiiiiiiccceeeeee!!!!! Keep going!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: jpod999 on August 15, 2007, 11:17:24 AM
Just watched the in-car footage.  That's so cool that you passed the 914 and 350z with such ease.  If you ever come up to Infineon, let me know...I may be at the September NASA event doing an HPDE.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Tor Arne Kaasen on August 15, 2007, 11:37:05 AM
nice!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 16, 2007, 08:52:01 AM
Quote from: n2motorsports;31662
how fast were you going on the front strights?


In addition to the turbo upgrade, we added a Racepak G2X GPS data logger.  The car hit over 130 on the front straight and he was lifting early, while the car was still pulling.  At 131MPH it was only turning 5775 RPM.  We've had the motor to 7K but the power starts to fall off after 6K.  There is more tuning to be done but so far, we're pretty pleased.

Thank you all for the words of encouragement.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: shutter on August 16, 2007, 12:57:01 PM
Watched this last night and great work so far!  Keep the videos coming!  It sounds great too.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: peteM3power on August 16, 2007, 06:27:55 PM
Sweet video that is one tough M42!  Great work!

Pete
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: BrandC on August 17, 2007, 08:19:40 PM
Putting in a 3.91 or 3.73 diff. might be in order.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 18, 2007, 11:46:28 PM
It already has a 3.73
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Abrax on August 21, 2007, 02:58:06 PM
rob - You mean getrag 240 with 3.73 right?

I had simillar setup with 3.64... It was doing 121 at fourth gear... So Your little monster should reach about 270 km/h (168) with 3.73 as You have strong enough engine...

But 5750 on the straight means that You could have been faster... Much faster...  So I'm very pleased that this setup can overtake theese cars that easily :-)

Keep going!!!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: E30PQ on August 21, 2007, 11:44:14 PM
I am the driver and co-owner of the car in the video.

We used the transmission that originally came in the 325i.  I believe it is a Getrag 260.

That's why we kept the same diff ratio (3:73).

It took a little work to make it all fit.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Abrax on August 22, 2007, 03:01:21 PM
Nice to meet You :-)

Yes, I know all theese installation issues connected with adapting different tranny to M42... Tuff stuff ;)

When I was doing the job, we decided to shorten the driveshaft and move the engine 2cm to the back, to move weight more into the center of the car :-)

Finally I decided to keep 3.73 with getrag 225, but it would be definately too short shifted in Your car :-)

I don't know what are Your goals, but generally it is good to have the car shifted that way, that it reaches red line on the fastest straight of the particular track on the last gear... 5775 is definately too long shifted if You are on this track. I think, that You could change the diff and cut 3 more seconds on this track just by doing it... If the 3.73 is stock I would try 4.1 diff. with Your setup. It should give You much better acceleration and about 6700 on the straight with much better torque all the time. Also consider changing tranny in the future. I mean that for the track it is ideal to have the tranny with very long 1st, and the rest of the gears much closer to each other than it is in the getrag 260. I would use E36 6-speed sport tranny from M3...  

BTW - I think that You've done GREAT job :-) But tranny/diff setup is not the strongest side of the car.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 22, 2007, 10:43:41 PM
We know there are a number of areas for improvement in the car and drivers.  One thing to keep in mind is that we were lifting much sooner on the front straight then we would like to make sure the stock front rotors and calipers would be able to slow enough for turn 1.  Not too many stock E30 brakes need to slow the car quickly from 130 for a corner.  We're also not trying to over rev the engine to keep the torque in the powerband.  We could rev it higher, but the torque and HP fall off after 6K with the current tune.  More work to do there as well.

This was a first, shake down cruise for the turbo, and like most race cars we've made a series of compromises.  The car will continue to evolve (hence all our 15" wheels for sale) and we hope, improve.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: FL318is on August 23, 2007, 10:33:54 AM
Can I borrow your car?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 23, 2007, 11:34:55 AM
Quote from: FL318is;32274
Can I borrow your car?


No, but I'd be happy to build you one of your own!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Abrax on August 23, 2007, 04:34:18 PM
As I said - outstanding work :-) Stock rotors - right -> too small for the car like this ;)

I am following Your car just from the beginning... Especially that I will build very simillar setup :-)
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Frankie on August 24, 2007, 01:28:14 PM
We wan't more in-car footage!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 25, 2007, 10:42:04 PM
Because you asked nicely...

This is the next lap (#3) of the second session.  This is the fastest lap of the day but notice how early and often he lifts... we need more brakes and bigger tires, both problems which are being addressed.

This footage includes the data we get from the in-car GPS system.  The tach signal comes from the ECU but track position, and speed from the GPS while the G load is built into the Racepak G2X.  Sorry this is so hard to read on You Tube... he hits 132 on the front straight going into that first corner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdXD64OORPA
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Frankie on August 26, 2007, 12:48:15 AM
Nice, thank you! And as you said, the braking technoque needs improvement since its too weak and early. It only heatens up the brakes.

That dashboard thingy was cool. So if I understod correctly, thr Racepack enables you to use that information in that video? I fI wan't samekind of video setup what do I need? Damn, that dashboard was nice.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on August 26, 2007, 01:17:29 AM
We were less concerned with lap times and braking zones than with making sure everything ran right.  We had a new engine, turbo, all associated plumbing, COP conversion, custom ECU, custom wireharness, power cutoff, electrical controls, shifter linkage, Racepak G2X GPS data logger, instrumentation, and digital dash.

There was a lot going on.  :D

If you want the same setup, get a Racepak G2X along with the Trackvision software and mount a video camera in your car.  You download the video to your PC, create a log file with data from the G2X, and combine them (sync them up) with the Trackvision software.

Here's a pic of the dash...

It has progressive shift lights and dual selectable displays (RPM and Last Lap or MPH for instance)
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: DaveM-sport on September 14, 2007, 04:44:24 AM
Cool, nice build. Great to see it blow the 350 into the weeds in only a shakedown trail:cool:
I'm planning on doing a Turbo M42 E30 track car too at some stage. Starting the build now but only as NA 1st and then turbo it in a year or two. Still in college at only 19 so time and budget can be restricting:rolleyes:

I was told just get an SR20det from a Nissan 200SX which would be easier I suppose but wheres the fun in that:D
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: gearheadE30 on September 14, 2007, 02:54:49 PM
haha looks like it would do you good to switch to a quicker steering rack. Otherwise, that's a pretty awesome build!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on September 20, 2007, 10:57:49 AM
Quote from: gearheadE30;33716
haha looks like it would do you good to switch to a quicker steering rack. Otherwise, that's a pretty awesome build!



hmm... it already has an E36 M3 (3 turns lock-to-lock) rack.  How much quicker do you suggest?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: BrandC on September 20, 2007, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: rob_e30;34064
hmm... it already has an E36 M3 (3 turns lock-to-lock) rack.  How much quicker do you suggest?


Stick with this one, don't switch to a Z3 2.7L-toL rack. You get less steering angle from what I understand. I suppose b/c the E36 has a slightly longer wheelbase and needs more steering angle to make U-turns.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on September 20, 2007, 04:29:46 PM
I wasn't considering changing in any case.  Perhaps I should have used that :rolls eyes emote.  I'm not sure how someone watching a video of a car on the track can determine that we need a quicker ratio rack without a hairpin or some other fixed point of reference.

My partner in the car has the Z3 rack in his E30 (S50 swap too) and I find it a little too darty.  It's only about 1/3rd a turn less in any case.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: oldtimer on September 20, 2007, 05:56:26 PM
I not only want to borrow it I would like to have a component listing to duplicate your set up.  I am in the process on welding me up my own exhaust manifold to put together my own system.  Give me some idea which to go with.  T3 T4 and wastegate.  How big of a inter cooler are you running.  I spent a lot of time and money for school to weld good enough to tackle on the task in building a system.  I have some room in finance to complete the system.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on September 21, 2007, 05:14:07 PM
There is a lot more to it that which turbo to choose.  Displacement, spark plug, compression ratio, fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure, fuel and spark control, boost level, boost control, etc. are all variables that need to be factored in.  Garrett has a tool to help you select a turbo based on displacement and HP goals.  I'd start there.  All that being said, unless you're going to increase displacement I'd recommend a GT28XX with a T25 flange.  Mine is bigger but this is a track dedicated car built to a specific set of rules.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: jpod999 on September 21, 2007, 08:08:18 PM
What year E30 shell are you using?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: E30PQ on September 22, 2007, 03:07:18 AM
The car is a 1989 325i shell.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: jpod999 on September 22, 2007, 12:30:52 PM
Quote from: E30PQ;34188
The car is a 1989 325i shell.


Damn, I was hoping it was an airbag model car.  I want to do an E36 M3 rack swap, but I've heard it's a pain.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: turbo_negro69 on September 23, 2007, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: jpod999;34216
Damn, I was hoping it was an airbag model car.  I want to do an E36 M3 rack swap, but I've heard it's a pain.


From what I remember you have to make an adapter plate for the firewall in order to move the steering shaft to the left......or was it the right?....it is possible though.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: EdCrab! on September 26, 2007, 11:42:49 PM
Quote from: rob_e30;32278
No, but I'd be happy to build you one of your own!


Details? :eek:
T&M, Flat Rate, or parts list/info - I'm interested! :D
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on September 28, 2007, 11:17:10 AM
Quote from: EdCrab!;34434
Details? :eek:
T&M, Flat Rate, or parts list/info - I'm interested! :D


PM me and we can start a discussion.  There are many variables.

Rob.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: oldtimer on September 29, 2007, 08:18:12 PM
From one of the suggestion was to have a quicker turn ratio.  I am not sure what ws shipped to me when I purchase the rack for my E30 but it has a two lock to lock.  I don't track my yet, but when I take it on some back roads here in Southern Maryland with some nice turns it help.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: jpod999 on September 30, 2007, 12:21:08 AM
Wait, you replaced the rack on your car?  How much work was involved?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on October 02, 2007, 08:53:24 AM
With new flares, tires, wheels, and brakes.  Running 17x9 with 255/40 Toyo RA1's
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: e9nine on October 02, 2007, 12:38:10 PM
Rob - the car is looking nice and mean. I've been lurking around the progress on BFc. I Love g it! What kind of rivets did you use on the IE flares? Did they provide them to you?

Thanks.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on October 02, 2007, 05:21:45 PM
Thanks.  Standard 3/16" medium length aluminum rivets.  The flares need some more work to lower the car back to it's original ride height in the rear.  Cutting of the inner fender liner (steel) and heating up the flares a bit to stretch them out some more..
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: jpod999 on October 02, 2007, 05:59:17 PM
Why'd you guys put on the E46 M3 style bumper?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on October 03, 2007, 12:22:55 AM
Quote from: jpod999;34795
Why'd you guys put on the E46 M3 style bumper?


To make room for and open up the air flow to the intercooler.  Next time I take the bumper cover off, I'll snap a pic.

Rob.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: kramerica5000 on October 03, 2007, 08:31:34 AM
What racing series are you planning to participate in (assuming this isn't just a mean track toy)? And what class will you be in?
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on October 03, 2007, 05:43:39 PM
Quote from: kramerica5000;34837
What racing series are you planning to participate in (assuming this isn't just a mean track toy)? And what class will you be in?


BMW CCA running in D Modified and NASA GTS Challenge running in GTS 4 or 5 depending on the dyno slip.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: kramerica5000 on October 03, 2007, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: rob_e30;34892
BMW CCA running in D Modified and NASA GTS Challenge running in GTS 4 or 5 depending on the dyno slip.


Awesome . . . I go to the NASA run-offs every year @ mid-ohio. . . I hope to see you there next fall :)
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on October 04, 2007, 09:53:31 PM
Quote from: kramerica5000;34919
Awesome . . . I go to the NASA run-offs every year @ mid-ohio. . . I hope to see you there next fall :)


It would be a lot of fun, but that's a really long tow from Southern Cal.  :(
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on March 10, 2008, 11:53:35 AM
Here is the latest for those of you following...

We had to make a change to the downpipe to eliminate overboost.  We've dyno'd and been to the track for 3 days and that problem is solved.  We're making very reliable 280 RWHP and torque.  Switched to a staggered setup with 235/45 on 17x7.5 in front and 255/40 on 17x9's in back.  Those are over the UUC BBK for the E30 and the car has returned to the neutral setup we expect from an E30.

You can find a write up here:  http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12370802#post12370802
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: strypt on March 11, 2008, 01:21:47 AM
Very nice! Congrats :) What size DP are you using, 3"?

Let us know if you post any more videos on youtube :)
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on March 13, 2008, 12:37:00 PM
It is a 3" downpipe, and it now goes all the way to the back of the car.  It also has a 3" straight through muffler but suffered no loss in HP or torque, it's just quieter.  I'll let you know when I get the new vids posted.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: Adam C. on March 13, 2008, 10:03:12 PM
Quote from: kramerica5000;34919
Awesome . . . I go to the NASA run-offs every year @ mid-ohio. . . I hope to see you there next fall :)


what kind of event is this?  im about a 3 hour drive from mid ohio
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on March 14, 2008, 09:13:36 AM
Check out http://www.nasaproracing.com for more info on Mid-Ohio Runoff's.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: beegeezy on March 14, 2008, 01:31:26 PM
sweet car man, loved the vids!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on April 30, 2008, 11:22:31 PM
So here is the latest.  We now have integrated boost control with the ECU and dyno tested it tonight.  Bottom line is 319RWHP at 18psi, and we're not rev'ing it to 7K.
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: nuvolarossa on May 01, 2008, 01:20:06 AM
:eek: great numbers!
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: swiss318is on May 02, 2008, 04:00:21 AM
hmm... interesting, interesting... :cool:
Title: Track Debut - Turbo M42 E30
Post by: rob_e30 on June 09, 2008, 03:14:42 PM
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