M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Suspension => Topic started by: e30s4evr on July 24, 2007, 10:20:32 AM
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Hi,
Have any of you had any experience with Lee Vuong and massivebrakes.com? I'm in the process of getting one of their front brake kits with 300mm X 32mm rotor. Other forums have reviewed his products favorably...
Thanks,
Narayan
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His products seems to be quality items. I don't have any experience of his stuff, but have been played with bigger brakes with my Porsche 944 Turbo. Here's calipers adapters which will be fitted under my Porsche:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bigyellow1.jpg)
Front calipers are Porsche GT2 six piston units and rears are from GT3. I am using Porsche 996 TT front rotors and GT3 rear rotors. I also use special handbrakeshoe adapters because GT3 rear disks brakedrum won't align to brakeshoes without it. Adapters were designed by my friend and me. Local machineshope fabricated them for us (for two cars).
Most likely i am going to use these Porsche "big red" caliper under my 318IS, i have a "leftover" pair in my garage:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bigrednew.jpg)
Some Brembos
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/DSCN0589.jpg)
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Why do this, do you have a problem with your brakes? You are just adding unsprung weight.
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Are you serious?
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Heh - weight Your stock calipers and compare them to theese Porsche biggest beauties - not really heavier as I think...
Why? I need half an hour and a track to boil my new stock brakes really badly, or just few brakings from +200 to nearly 0 km/h...
They are not really braking enough for me... I would like to have better controll over braking power during heavy track braking. Or even on a wet surface You will have much easier task to find maximum braking moment when braking with big rotors...
That's why I'm definately after big brake conversion. Ose - where to find big used brambos for cheap?
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My Polish friend told excately how it is.
I have bought calipers from different sources, German Ebay, trade them to Porsche parts here in Finland. have also bought few sets from Estonia etc. Just keep your eyes open these calipers pop up from many different places.
Most of these Brembos are actually lighter than standard BMW iron units.
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Why do this, do you have a problem with your brakes? You are just adding unsprung weight.
Um the calipers aren’t spinning so there is no unsprung weight to lose there aluminum anyways so there probably going to be lighter then the stockers. Now larger rotors might be heavier but your adding multi piston calipers so your braking is much better.
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Why do this, do you have a problem with your brakes? You are just adding unsprung weight.
have youever felt the weight of these porsche calipers? they are extremly light, i bet to aluminum porsche calipers weigh the same as one of our front brake calipers.
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Um the calipers aren’t spinning so there is no unsprung weight to lose there aluminum anyways so there probably going to be lighter then the stockers. Now larger rotors might be heavier but your adding multi piston calipers so your braking is much better.
Unsprung weight is anything the road side of the suspension. Larger rotors are big killer. Not certain how much better retardation you'd get as it's tyre limited, but fell will be better.
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Why? I need half an hour and a track to boil my new stock brakes really badly, or just few brakings from +200 to nearly 0 km/h...
They are not really braking enough for me... I would like to have better controll over braking power during heavy track braking. Or even on a wet surface You will have much easier task to find maximum braking moment when braking with big rotors...
That's why I'm definately after big brake conversion. Ose - where to find big used brambos for cheap?
Really? In a 318is? It's never happened to be over about 600 track miles (with Brembo OEM discs and EBC Greenstuff). I've done 45 minute stints on track without fade (noisy though).
I know a guy who has done the 'Ring on stock rotors. He is also a multiple autocross winner...
My thoughts would be to critique your braking technique rather than add the rotational intertia of big rotors.
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Really? In a 318is? It's never happened to be over about 600 track miles (with Brembo OEM discs and EBC Greenstuff).
You must have a very light foot ;)
Especially if you have managed that with Greenstuff, which is the worst possible pad for track use. I have seen them melted under Porsche 944 Turbos's.
I would never install them under any car. I have discussed with EBC factory represenative and according to him the Green Stuff is not designed for cars which can do over 200km/h.
I know a guy who has done the 'Ring on stock rotors. He is also a multiple autocross winner...
What car, what was BTG time ?
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You must have a very light foot ;)
Especially if you have managed that with Greenstuff, which is the worst possible pad for track use. I have seen them melted under Porsche 944 Turbos's.
I would never install them under any car. I have discussed with EBC factory represenative and according to him the Green Stuff is not designed for cars which can do over 200km/h.
What car, what was BTG time ?
No, I have a very heavy right foot! The trick it to brake as hard and as quickly as possible. Avoid feathering the brakes on or off. On track I notice that I often brake 40-50ft later than similar cars from high speeds. The rule of thumb is to be braking for the minimum time.
There were two different varieties of Greenstuff, I'm not certain that if they were market related. Like yourself, I've heard a number of bad stories, particularily on E36s. The 2463/2 E30 pads available in many parts of Europe are a lot better.
Car was an E30 318is, 9 minutes 36 seconds I think. He did a 10:18 in his previous 318i 115bhp four door too:
http://forums.bmwe30.net/read.php?7,1552,1632#msg-1632
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcUuVM2-aeI
http://home.no.net/ovekvam/
http://forums.bmwe30.net/read.php?7,1552,1629#msg-1629
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Ok, thanks for the information.
Your friend managed very well. Everything under 10 minutes is fast.
For faster times you will need much more power. A friend of mine have done it little over 8 minutes with Porsche 944 Turbo. Some friends were just at the Ring, one of them drove under 8 minutes. Car was over 500 hp Porsche 993TT
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You must have a very light foot ;)
Especially if you have managed that with Greenstuff, which is the worst possible pad for track use. I have seen them melted under Porsche 944 Turbos's.
dont know if this matters but do ouir front brake cooling ducts have anything to do with the greenstuff lasting on our cars?
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Unsprung weight is anything the road side of the suspension. Larger rotors are big killer. Not certain how much better retardation you'd get as it's tyre limited, but fell will be better.
Sorry for my wrong terminology, but still those calipers would be lighter or equal to stock so no more weight added.
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In E36s we can bolt-on the brakes from 330i e46, that are 325x25 front and 320x20 rear... I can tell you that I can drive more fast even with the same low power engine! The brakes are amazing. I don't know if there are "oem big brakes" from others bmws that will bolt on in your e30s... I can tell you too that they have power enough for turning on ABS at 100mph and more...
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Sorry for my wrong terminology, but still those calipers would be lighter or equal to stock so no more weight added.
Yes, however bigger discs is really where the weight is and since they are accelerated in two directions, they store a propotionally high amount of energy.
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Ok, thanks for the information.
Your friend managed very well. Everything under 10 minutes is fast.
For faster times you will need much more power. A friend of mine have done it little over 8 minutes with Porsche 944 Turbo. Some friends were just at the Ring, one of them drove under 8 minutes. Car was over 500 hp Porsche 993TT
Yes, certainly for an E30 to go faster, a lot more power is needed for the climbs!
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dont know if this matters but do ouir front brake cooling ducts have anything to do with the greenstuff lasting on our cars?
Porsche 944 Turbo ducting is much more efficient. These cars i mentioned also have Porsche 968 CS M030 option ducting which is much better than original 944 Turbo system.
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I've experienced Massive brakes first hand in Lee's E30 M3, he was my instructor at one of the Driving school with the Quebec Chapter of the BMW club and they work wonders. No fade, only very good braking for the entire day and believe me, he is hard on the brakes braking very very late. Two of my friends also use them and they are loving them, on the streets and on the track. I will get some when I can come up with the money.
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My thoughts would be to critique your braking technique rather than add the rotational intertia of big rotors.
Yeap, that was the first thing I've thought :-) But no, it was all right with the technique... The point is that it was happening with getrag 225 combined with 4.1 LSD - so very short shifted setup. It really was too much for theese rotors. I was using a new set of ATE powerdisck and ATE pads.
For stock setup, with stock tranny there is no way to blow the brakes ;-)
So, I need something more efficient and I'll definately go bigger rotors :-)
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Hi everyone.
If you have any question in regard of brakes in general (yes, I can be unbiased - no pun intended) and Massive products in particular, it will be a pleasure to help. There are basically two kits for e30s. Race kit (300mm x 32mm rotors and Superlite forged caliper) or Sport kit (300mm x 21mm and Superlite forged caliper). I offer the option of a softer Dynalite calipers if you want extra lateral clearance, but it has 1mm extra overall radius, and not as stiff as the Superlite for the same price...
Those kits will fit only a few 15" wheels (Team Dynamics, Kosei K1 with 6mm spacer), and many 16" wheels. A client has just tested his front Race kit at Summit Point on his e30 with Euro S50B32 and let me know there was never any brake fade.
May I mention that unless you track your car, you won't need bigger brakes. When tracking your car, start bleeding your stock system, and use proper pads. That will do for most of us.
I am also starting taking pre-orders for the rear race kit (no ebrake). For racecars only. $100 discount on pre-paid orders until September 1st. Rear kit has aluminum hats, and 300mm x 21mm rotors. Stainless steel brackets.