M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: Vladi on June 30, 2007, 05:35:36 PM
-
My power steering rack needs to be replaced badly (leaks oil).
What should i do, replace it with an E30 one or with an E36 one. :)
If i'm not mistaken, the e30 has 4 turns and the normal e36 one has 3.5, right?
Also, has anyone who swaped the e36 rack noticed an easier steering or is it the same as with the e30 one?
Thank you!
-
I put an E36 rack in about 6 months ago. You can use the E30 or E36 tie rod ends. The E36 are easier to adjust. The steering is quicker and the power assist about the same. It makes the car feel more modern. The rack was US$125 from a salvage yard.
-
Some people say e36 racks brake down more often than the e30 ones...is that right? :confused:
-
I don't thinks so, never heard of one broken…
Although the power steering pump is another topic,
they fail quite often, mainly because people are too lazy to change the fluid once in a while
-
Some people say e36 racks brake down more often than the e30 ones...is that right? :confused:
yes, because in E36 steering rack location is in front of oil pan :D
-
I see. :D
So the e36 rack is kinda plug and play, can i use the e36 tie rods? Does it fit the holes from the e30 one?
-
Clay, did you bend the tabs also?Or did you lift the engine?I plan on lifting the engine. Did you change the HP hose also?
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21779&start=0 (http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21779&start=0)
(http://www.robertandtara.com/images/BMW/Bending_SubFrame.jpg)
-
Look around, for a little more than that used price you may be able to buy a rebuilt one.
-
Z3's streering rack is 2.5 turns ;) and its plug and play for our E36's for your e30 is gone fit very well too
-
What about if ypou don't have power streering, can I still use z3's steering rack?
-
If you fill it with some fluid and put the screws in...maybe...
-
Z3's streering rack is 2.5 turns ;) and its plug and play for our E36's for your e30 is gone fit very well too
it's actually 2.7 but it has the same ratio has the 3.0 turn lock to lock rack. The Z3 rack has less travel wich accounts for the 2.7 turns
I like my z3 rack alot. worth the swap IMO
-
What about if ypou don't have power streering, can I still use z3's steering rack?
why to do that ????? just screw some steering pump an hoses and use it like power steering rack pretty easy
-
it's actually 2.7 but it has the same ratio has the 3.0 turn lock to lock rack. The Z3 rack has less travel wich accounts for the 2.7 turns
I like my z3 rack alot. worth the swap IMO
this is not true 3.0 turn steering rack is same ratio as z3's but its variable ratio, z3 2.7 steering rack is not variable
95 M3 15.4 ratio 3.0 turns lock-to-lock
96+ M3/MZ3 17.8 ratio 3.2 turns lock-to-lock
Z3 15.4 ratio 2.7 turns lock-to-lock
325 16.8 ratio 3.4 turns lock-to-lock
328 15.4 ratio 3.2 turns lock-to-lock
-
Clay, did you bend the tabs also?Or did you lift the engine?I plan on lifting the engine. Did you change the HP hose also?
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21779&start=0
I bent the tabs and played around with the old hose until it fit. I did need a helper to hold the hose from above while I started the bolt from below. It was too small a space for two hands.
I am curious how you would make a variable ratio rack. It's basically two gears.
-
I am curious how you would make a variable ratio rack. It's basically two gears.
With different tooth prifile along axis.
-
I am curious how you would make a variable ratio rack. It's basically two gears.
Variable hydraulic pressure.
You can increase or decrease sensitivity and feel that way.
-
Hey I have something for everyones opinion. I called BMW the other day because my mothers husband (worked for Pep Boys for 20 years) said that even though it's just power assisted steering, not having the power steering pump hooked up (taking the belt off the pump to get more power) could damage stuff.
BMW says that it is a hazard. Has anyone else taken their power steering belt off and had either any issues or no issues at all? I ran mine for a year before I wrecked it and had no problems.
-
Variable hydraulic pressure.
You can increase or decrease sensitivity and feel that way.
I was thinking that if you took the rack and bent it into circle it would basically be a ring and pinion.
The variable isn't the steering gear ratio, it is the power assist. I had a Honda once that was setup this way. It had a little distributor type thing driven by the transmission. The centrifugal weights opened a valve that bypassed more fluid as the speed increased. Over 20 MPH there was no power assist at all.
-
I was thinking that if you took the rack and bent it into circle it would basically be a ring and pinion.
The variable isn't the steering gear ratio, it is the power assist. I had a Honda once that was setup this way. It had a little distributor type thing driven by the transmission. The centrifugal weights opened a valve that bypassed more fluid as the speed increased. Over 20 MPH there was no power assist at all.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/031112.htm
Some cars have variable-ratio steering, which uses a rack-and-pinion gearset that has a different tooth pitch (number of teeth per inch) in the center than it has on the outside. This makes the car respond quickly when starting a turn (the rack is near the center), and also reduces effort near the wheel's turning limits.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering2.htm
http://www.zakgear.com/Rack.html
http://www.dhub.org/articles/56
-
Hey I have something for everyones opinion. I called BMW the other day because my mothers husband (worked for Pep Boys for 20 years) said that even though it's just power assisted steering, not having the power steering pump hooked up (taking the belt off the pump to get more power) could damage stuff.
BMW says that it is a hazard. Has anyone else taken their power steering belt off and had either any issues or no issues at all? I ran mine for a year before I wrecked it and had no problems.
I did it for a year and half or so. Pretty much had no fluid in it, as it had a serious leak. I just added a small amount every now and then, worked fine.
You could make a pipe going from one port to the other, or make both go straight up to the reservoir. Either way it would not matter.
I can and could see no reason it would be unsafe to disconnect it at all as long as nothing can get inside.
-
I drove 600km of highway without power steering. Except the fact that i felt the car pull better in low rpm there was no problem.
-
Some cars have variable-ratio steering, which uses a rack-and-pinion gearset that has a different tooth pitch (number of teeth per inch) in the center than it has on the outside. This makes the car respond quickly when starting a turn (the rack is near the center), and also reduces effort near the wheel's turning limits.
Interesting! Do you know which, if any, of the E30 and E36 racks are variable ratio and /or variable assist? I 'm curious how much this effect can increase or decrease the ratio.
-
All E30 racks are variable assist iirc. I'm fairly positive at least the late model ones are. The e90/91/92 is the first 3 series to have a variable ratio system, which is why all of the tech magazines made such a big deal out of it when it came out. I think it would be a bit of a chore to install, with minimal benefits in our cars.
-
After driving mine with no assist, it is unnecessary in our cars.
Honestly, the assist does very little above 5mph as it is.
On a lower ratio rack like the Z3, it will make a larger difference, but still not much once moving.
-
Sheepdog,
Have you ever bled the system. Now that I have everything hooked back up I'm going to put fluid in there (anyone see anything wrong with just putting Prestone power steering fluid with stops leak ( I have 2 quarts of it) in there, since I am just going to have it not hooked up to the P/S pump?
Also, what forum would I put pics of my car in, as far as the swaps and mods.
-
My two cents. Just about a Month ago i replaced the Rack and Pinion on my car. One bending the tab, gently will make the removal and re_install easier and second not having the belt installed can and will cost steering seized unexpectedly. I tried it, because since I had a 1982 Ford Fiesta the UK version it had a rack and pinion steering without assist from a pump. So I thought I would remove the belt on the 318is free up some HP and to see just how hard it is to steer in a stop and go traffic. Not bad but as I said the steering will siezed at time to time. did not try to drive it on highway after it siezed on me.
-
Sheepdog,
Have you ever bled the system. Now that I have everything hooked back up I'm going to put fluid in there (anyone see anything wrong with just putting Prestone power steering fluid with stops leak ( I have 2 quarts of it) in there, since I am just going to have it not hooked up to the P/S pump?
Also, what forum would I put pics of my car in, as far as the swaps and mods.
Rule #1 on e30 steering.
Do not put power steering fluid in there, it will destroy the seals.
As will power steering fluid stop leak. Did that, I went from a small leak, to a drain.
There are some minor differences between ATF and power steering fluid. They are somewhat interchangeable, but not entirely. On our cars it is not.
As for bleeding, I filled up the reservoir, cranked the wheel around a bit (lock to lock), fired it up, repeat. It should bleed itself. Not really a lot of places for air to hide.
-
Installed the e36 rack today. Woohoooo!! Worth every cent! :D