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DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: ose30 on June 17, 2007, 02:48:01 PM

Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ose30 on June 17, 2007, 02:48:01 PM: Yesterday my home town was a host to a rally event which is one of the rallies of Finnish championship series. There where about 150 car which particpated to this rally. Lots of different classes from high tech WRC cars to low budjet cars. There were also several finnish WRC drivers like Toni Gardemeister and Kosti Katajamäki. Altough Gardemeister was just having fun and drove VIP car. His personal hobby rally car is a 36 bodied M3...
I took several pictures of those low budjet rally cars. E30 bodied M3 is nowadays very popular, very fast and durable rally car as well. Sorry about the picture quality, i used my "high Tech" Nokia phone.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bmw7.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bmw6.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bmw5.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bmw3.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bmw2.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/olli951/bmw1.jpg)
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: e9nine on June 17, 2007, 04:05:41 PM: Lucky you! I wish I could get a chance to watch rallies again. Sometime soon - I will :rolleyes:

Thanks for the pics! I am surprised there's still a bunch of e30m3s out there rallying considering how they weren't really a mass produced example.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ose30 on June 18, 2007, 01:13:38 AM: This is a event where every pilgrim goes:

http://www.wrc.com/page/RalliesDetail/0,,10111~7,00.html

Must be one of the fastest WRC rally. This rally is also one of the oldest, first time it was driven over 50 years ago. Our summer house is quite close to several stages, so it's nice to watch rally during the day and afterwards have a relaxing sauna and go to swim to a lake.

btw check out the standings of WRC; it's good to be a Finn ;)
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: e9nine on June 18, 2007, 06:31:18 AM: ..yeah yeah yeah Gronholm rules :D
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: FL318is on June 18, 2007, 08:33:39 AM: Kick A$$
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: Alpine003 on June 18, 2007, 08:28:31 PM: I wouldn't call anyone using remote resorvoir Ohlins a "budget" rally car.;)
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ose30 on June 20, 2007, 02:10:15 PM: Öhlins systems are not so highly priced here as they are in USA. They are made in Sweden, which is just next to us, so low wreight charges and since both countries are EU members, there are not any customs fees.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: Alpine003 on June 21, 2007, 11:35:29 PM: Quote from: ose30;28145
Öhlins systems are not so highly priced here as they are in USA. They are made in Sweden, which is just next to us, so low wreight charges and since both countries are EU members, there are not any customs fees.

Ohlins group buy for usa guys? haha. Even a used Ohlins system for my Aprilia goes for $2k. :rolleyes:
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ecpreston on June 22, 2007, 07:55:51 AM: Quote from: Alpine003;28028
I wouldn't call anyone using remote resorvoir Ohlins a "budget" rally car.;)

Yeah, it'll be a glorious day when I can consider a fully prepped E30M3 a "low cost rally car". Something along these lines seems more appropriate:

(http://pics.livejournal.com/00solstice/pic/000535kd/s640x480)
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: Alpine003 on June 22, 2007, 11:23:04 PM: Quote from: ecpreston;28266
Yeah, it'll be a glorious day when I can consider a fully prepped E30M3 a "low cost rally car". Something along these lines seems more appropriate:

Quote

Nice. Is that the Yugo STI-R Spec VZR Special Club Rally Red Label version?
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ose30 on June 25, 2007, 12:59:22 AM: It's a question of what you compare it. A fully built N-spec rally car(Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru STI etc.etc) can easily cost between 150K$ to 200K$.

These M3's are usually driven by hobby rally drivers, with rather low budjet. You can buy a decent M3 from Germany between 10K-15K€ and spend about another 15K€ to build it, so with 30K€ you get a low budjet rally car. Earlier there were a lot of old Ford Escorts (european mark II), but they have been replaced by "newer" cars, like M3's. It's rather difficult to find nowadays rear wheel drive car from which to start build a rally car.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: romkasponka on June 25, 2007, 03:55:29 AM: http://www.per4m.lt/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4793
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ecpreston on June 25, 2007, 08:03:30 AM: Quote from: Alpine003;28306
Nice. Is that the Yugo STI-R Spec VZR Special Club Rally Red Label version?

I can only assume! :eek:

Quote from: ose30;28460
so with 30K€ you get a low budjet rally car.

Exactly! I have to be making $250k+/yr to consider pissing away a quarter of it on a car that is certian to be destroyed. :)
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ose30 on June 25, 2007, 08:46:53 AM: If you look pictures of these M3's, you can see most of them have sponsors...
Of course price/kilometer is quite high, when only few hundred km's are driven per seson. There's not such a thing like cheap motorsport ;)
Most of these cars has been on rally use for years, so not much of these are destroyed. Finnish rally road are much faster than other ones, for example what they have in middle and south europe, lots of jumps, cars really fly ;) That's the main reason for good suspension parts. Cheaper systems can be destoryed quite soon.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: rsafier on June 25, 2007, 02:23:54 PM: Quote from: ecpreston;28266
Yeah, it'll be a glorious day when I can consider a fully prepped E30M3 a "low cost rally car". Something along these lines seems more appropriate:

(http://pics.livejournal.com/00solstice/pic/000535kd/s640x480)

HAHA, that is a guy I know from AutoX in Columbus. Be brought it out last year when he completed the BABE rally event. You could only spend 250 bucks on a car and drive from NYC to New Orlanes and back :)
It was a true POS but it took the abuse even tho the whole rear of the car was just Home Depot expanding foam :D
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: D. Clay on June 25, 2007, 05:09:53 PM: I would definitely consider these low buck rally cars. Competition cars are expensive. I spent a lot of years building, tuning, and prepping cars on OPM (Other People's Money). The only competition car I have been able to afford was a one third share of a eight year old Formula Ford on an open trailer.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: Alpine003 on June 25, 2007, 10:27:33 PM: Quote from: ose30;28460
It's a question of what you compare it. A fully built N-spec rally car(Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru STI etc.etc) can easily cost between 150K$ to 200K$.

These M3's are usually driven by hobby rally drivers, with rather low budjet. You can buy a decent M3 from Germany between 10K-15K€ and spend about another 15K€ to build it, so with 30K€ you get a low budjet rally car.

This seems to be the reverse on the opposite side of the pond. I was able to build my Impreza Rally Car for under $20k for a class close to the SCCA group N specs which I'm assuming is different than the n-spec you're talking about.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: ose30 on June 26, 2007, 01:11:18 AM: Yes, i ment FIA group N spec cars. I try to find some picturse of them.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: D. Clay on June 26, 2007, 03:02:30 PM: I went surfing and found a 2001 Subaru Group N car in Australia that was for sale for US $46.000. Group N allows dog ring transmissions, free shocks, electronics, high dollar clutch kits, etc. A new Group N car would run well over $100,000. You buy a kit from Subaru, a car, put them together and go rallying. Similar to the Porsche 911 programs and we know how low buck that was.
Alpine 003, that Impreza is some nice work and a good looking car.
Title: Low cost rally cars
Post by: Alpine003 on June 26, 2007, 11:02:48 PM: Quote from: D. Clay;28566
Alpine 003, that Impreza is some nice work and a good looking car.

Thanks. After doing 3 drivetrain swaps, 2 suspensions swaps, 3 brake swaps on it, I've lost steam on it and it's been sitting in a barn for the past 5 years. :rolleyes:

BTW, I never did get a dog leg tranny for it although I was seriously considering semicut gears.