M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Electrical => Topic started by: bmwman91 on May 22, 2007, 12:48:05 AM
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So I need $ to supplement my soon-to-be income from a job I will begin soon. I want to buy a BMW F650GS and need more $!
Anyway, I always figured a plug-n-play one-touch window module would be a hot item. I would shoot for a $50 pricetag on it. This would work with the stock switches, and maybe I would make an option for the E36 ones too. Who would want this? What price would make this a hot seller?
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50 for 2 windows? hell yes
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ooooooh vote me innn!!!!
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HELL YES.
There were two people that started up on the switches but disappeared into thin air.
Knowing you Bmwman, I have faith in you, hehe.
I'd like a set for my E36 switches.
I'm in whenever you're ready!
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Sweet. Dude8383, were there any wiring changes that needed to be made when you installed the E36 ones?
This is my new project for the moment. The super-lean running project of mine was turning out to produce a TON of NOx emissions. which is far worse than CO2 as far as pollutants.
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That sounds like a great project. But it is kind of hard to beat the price on the Autoloc kit. http://www.thehoffmangroup.com/Autoloc/detail.lasso?itemid=WC1000
The problem that I found with them is that they each control one window. There is not enough space in the console for three (with sunroof) individual modules. Also it is expensive to buy so many controllers. If you can make the box small so it fits in the console and controls both front windows, or the windows and the sunroof, that would be way cool.
Plus the main feature I'd like to see in a window controller is the ability to open all four windows and the sunroof with one touch! If you can do that, you will have a market of thousands of cars. e3, e9, e12, e23, e24, e28, etc...
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Sweet. Dude8383, were there any wiring changes that needed to be made when you installed the E36 ones?
This is my new project for the moment. The super-lean running project of mine was turning out to produce a TON of NOx emissions. which is far worse than CO2 as far as pollutants.
Well, my switches came with some wire left.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=52278&highlight=e36+window
Scroll down, you'll see my posts.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=52278&page=3&highlight=e36+window
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Cool man. Thanks.
I went out & got the ammeter on there. I did the tests with dirty windows which I suppose would be a "worst-case" scenario. Peak start-up current looks like it is around 9 or 10A, running current is 4-7A and stall current is a whopping 15-20A. This does not make anything more or less do-able, but will certainly make safety a HUGE factor! Better find switching components with minimal ON-resistance!
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If the price comes down to 35-40 I'd be interested. Maybe I'll have more money by then... ;)
Good luck on the project ;)
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This is something i have been searching for. I've been underwhelmed by the auto-loc option, because I have this in my MINI:
http://www.gbmini.net/wp/auto-up_windows/
Ian has been doing this for years and even has posted his wiring diagam in the DIY area.
http://www.gbmini.net/wp/auto-up_windows/diy/
An elegant solution that has worked flawlessly in my MINI. It was my first "mod".
I would be a definite @ $50
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This is something i have been searching for. I've been underwhelmed by the auto-loc option, because I have this in my MINI:
http://www.gbmini.net/wp/auto-up_windows/
Ian has been doing this for years and even has posted his wiring diagam in the DIY area.
http://www.gbmini.net/wp/auto-up_windows/diy/
An elegant solution that has worked flawlessly in my MINI. It was my first "mod".
I would be a definite @ $50
Wow good stuff there!
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Update time:
So I have the proper parts sourced, and should be able to handle the current quite well. The max running current will be 8A, and everything is sized to at LEAST 15A. The PCB traces have been sized so as not to increase in temperature by more than 10C, which is VERY conservative. Current spikes and the like are also being accounted for based upon testing on the on-car motors. I have PCB's designed up and ready to be built, though I think I will use the small empty spot on it to put in some extra "thermal protection" components.
For the sake of keeping the packaging simple, I will not be making the activation delay adjustable. I will do some "ergonomic" testing to get it feeling good.
This unit will control the driver and passenger windows. They will have one-touch up and down functions. There will also be an option to put them both up or down from the driver's buttons.
After this I will look into adding sunroof compatibility. Thereafter, I will see about a 4-door controller. Anyway, I hope to have a prototype going by next week. I am going backpacking for 5 days next week/weekend, then begin work at my new job. Rush rush rush!
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Update time:
I ordered a batch of parts to build the initial prototype just a moment ago. I am still writing the code for the interface, and am making it all as user-friendly as possible. It is actually relatively complicated to make it user friendly when the instructions are done 2 million per second, and humans can only really do things (like press the window button) 4-8 times per second! I am definitely excited about this though, it is quite annoying sometimes to have to hold the buttons!
As a teaser, here were some shots from the mechanical model I test-fitted everything in. It only has the big components, all the smaller more important ones were left off since they are tiny surface mount items.
(http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/top.jpg)
(http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/bottom.jpg)
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Looking good man!
Can't wait to see the final product.
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What program are you using to create the imaging?
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IronCAD. Probably THE easiest modeling program I have EVER used. Beats Pro/E, SDRC I-Deas, Solid Works and AutoCAD by a long shot as far as ease of use.
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those CADs are sick! i cant wait for the product to come out.. im startin to think your a f**ken genious!!!
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Haha no, I just like making things. My big secret is not watching TV (or as little as possible). I get bored. I resist the urge to watch it or play games. I wind up doing stuff like this instead lol. Well, that and I am not married nor do I have kids. Maybe I will consider getting hitched in the next 5-6 years! 30 sounds like a safe age to give up my freedom.
Honestly, all the stuff regarding electronics I have done was from internet research. The internet is seriously the greatest tool ever. My father has helped me out as well with some of the basics. Once you get those, part datasheets make sense, and you can get a good idea of what you need. This is MY hobby. I suck horribly at playing musical instruments (I tried guitar and piano), and others are naturals at it. Everyone has their calling I suppose. Mine happens to be nerdy lol.
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OK, update time!
I finished the controller code tonight. Talk about a beast (for what it does anyway). Friggin 450+ lines of instructions. It has a lot of over-current protection built in, to protect itself and the car. Needless to say, it should ensure that nothing will overheat and it will work for a long long time. I have to revise the PCB design a bit, but the code was the hardest part of it. Initial testing is a breadboard with LED lights to simulate the windows lol. Hopfully I can see about pricing and interest by mid next-week.
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The test-circuit in action lol. Kinda blurry, but meh it is past my bedtime. The LED's behave properly, so I guess it is time to see if they make the actual windows work. More to come.......
A bare-ended wire acted as the "finger" pressing "buttons" to trigger activity. Simple = good, especially in electronics.
(http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/images/1tw/testbed01.jpg)
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so do you just tap it to activate the one touch or what?
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I'm guessing it is similar to the Autoloc WC1000, yes?
Press once to go all the way down, press again to stop it midway. Press once to go all the way up.
I've been running the Autolocs for about two years now, love them dearly. I still have a hard time when I get into my wife's car and the windows don't roll all the way up.
Will you have additional inputs available, so that the windows will roll up with a trigger from the alarm 'arm' circuit, for example?
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Yup, 1-tap for auto-movement like the newer ones.
For the moment this is just a basic deal. Depending on how the alarm system is wired in, it might work with it. The AutoLoc kit is pretty cool, and cheaply priced. It would not be too hard to add the alarm-arm functionality in, but that depends a bit on other factors...like bypassing the main relay....lol. I could not tell if the WC1000 had window-up mode with an alarm.
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Alrighty, I installed the test module and it works great. I will probbaly break my window motors from playing with them too much now. I will work on getting all the material lists worked out and a price up here for those that want my super-duper special unit.
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This sounds like a great product to have, especially if it can handle both windows. I suppose this can easily be adopted also for other vechiles as well. I have an old Porsche 944 Turbo and it has same kind of window functions like E30's have. I'll have to check out how does the window switches differ. At least both cars use same window motors.
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yay
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can't wait for this
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Any updates??
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Sorry, I have been busy.
I am thinking of a couple things to keep costs down for everyone, but will also deter some buyers. I COULD sell one of 2 things:
A) A complete kit, assembled and ready to go. It would cost more than the AutoLoc one though because I cannot afford to produce it in the quantites they do.
B) A kit with the programmed controller and printed circuit board. The user would purchase the rest of the parts (PN's I would provide) from digikey and solder it/drill the palstic case themselves. I could probably do a kit for ~$30 that way, with another ~$15/20 in parts needing to be purchased. I would MUCH prefer this for the sake of simplicity, and not having to drop $1k of my own $ on a complete batch of parts. But soldering it yourself is FUN right? lol
To go along with this, I am debating making this sort of open-source. I am tempted to make the code available, as well as wiring schematics and stuff. A PIC programmer costs more than the whole kit would anyway, but open-source leads to new innovations. I just do not want someone taking it, running off with the code and marketing it as their own. Doing the wiring by hand (as opposed to a PCB) is awful, let me tell you. Trying to set up a circuit capable of dealign with 15-20A on a solderboard sucks, so I am sure I could make back my development costs.
I am also thinking of doing the same with the MAF conversion. Since there really is no $ in it for me anymore, why not let it out right? Again though, I do not want someone taking it all, saying it is theirs on some other forum and making $ off of it at all of our expense (not saying anyone here would, but maybe a random person who got wind of it from elsewhere). I AM exploring OE replacement type stuff with it now though.
What would people prefer? If I have to do the labor myself the overall cost increases a bit because I am extraordinarily busy with my new job and staying sane as it is.
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if you could do it like a diy and try and make it as simple as possible i would be down for that. i enjoy doing projects on my car myself. it helps me understand how everything works under all that plastic
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if you could do it like a diy and try and make it as simple as possible i would be down for that. i enjoy doing projects on my car myself. it helps me understand how everything works under all that plastic
+1
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+2
BTW I have used some open-source stuff before, namely rockbox firmware on my Ipod and my Iriver (http://www.rockbox.org. The site wiki is a bit out of date. http://www.misticriver.net for more info.). Never heard of anyone trying to steal the code, and I don't think it would be high-risk for something like this. Generally it leads to a more rapid rate of developement.
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+2
BTW I have used some open-source stuff before, namely rockbox firmware on my Ipod and my Iriver (http://www.rockbox.org. The site wiki is a bit out of date. http://www.misticriver.net for more info.). Never heard of anyone trying to steal the code, and I don't think it would be high-risk for something like this. Generally it leads to a more rapid rate of developement.
Only takes 1 to screw up the whole open-source mindset though. Especially with something like this where money could most likely be made.
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Only takes 1 to screw up the whole open-source mindset though. Especially with something like this where money could most likely be made.
Exactly. It is not even that I want the $ for myself, it would just piss me off if my research was exploited, or a product was made and other enthusiasts were price-gouged.
I have discovered a flaw needing repair lol. It wounds like something you would expect from an old Chrysler or something. I got cut off on the freeway yesterday. I honked. My driver's side window started moving. Apparently, honking the horn makes the windows move lol. Discussing this, it would seem that the large inductive field of the horns is creating enough EMI so as to trip the activator. I need to build in more bypassing I guess. I will work on this some more lol.
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anything ever happen with this? it would also be neat if you could slightly alter the design to be used with turn signals so that when you tap the stalk it will signal for like 7 seconds
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Are new cars coming with an auto-signal now too? That would have to be a separate module at this point.
Yes, I am going to finish the window module. It is just one of those things that i am dreading...dealing with crazy inductance loops and stuff. It migth just be due to me using loops of wire to route things since I am not going to 1-off a PCB right now. I need to figure out how to bypass the inputs better and not break the prototype at the same time lol. Solder joints are not the sturdiest critters. Sorry about the lagging folks.
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Well whenever you finish im in :)
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Didn't read the whole thread, but I have one touch windows and sunroof :p
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If you ever just build one as is, I'll definitely buy, even if its a bit more expensive, atleast there's a face and a person behind it, not a huge corporation or anything.
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bmwman, when you have a functional product and a attainable prize count me in. I am spoiled from my Boxster S having a "one touch" window control now I would like the same for my Bimmer although I have manual roll up on my 1984 318i. the $ 50 sounds good to control both windows.
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I was actually thinking about this driving to work this morning. Since there is no huge market left foe me to get in on, I was thinking of just letting all the info out. All I really want is to get some PCB's made to clean up the circuit (hand soldered one = bird's nest of wires). So if I can get enough people in to cover the cost of some PCB's, I can sell those & the programmed controller cheaper. The rest of the parts are all possible to get from DigiKey and I can list what is what. I think getting it all on a PCB should eliminate my problems with the windows moving when I honk the horn and stuff...all that wiring acts like one big inductor and trips out the controller. I will see what I can put together for this as time permits.