M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Exterior => Topic started by: Abrax on May 06, 2007, 04:32:35 PM
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Hello all!
I've decided to write a guide for anyone who wants to paint his car or it's part and wants do do it well.
GOALS:
- painting taillights in any color You like,
- painting any surface glossy,
- painting any surface flat,
TOOLS, DEVICES, ETC.:
- spray gun/compressor, spray can,
- solid filler,
- liquid filler/known as base paint/,
- solid color paint,
- transparent finishing paint, /also known as the "clear coat"/
- sandblaster,
- proper grade sand/jet garnet/glass sand or any other rust removing particles,
- wiping device,
- 3M wiping cloth,
- wiping papers grade: 150, 320, 1200,
- polishing paste,
- polishing device with felt disc,
- some place around to do all the things,
A MUST HERE IS TO HAVE AND USE PROTECTING DEVICE LIKE 3M 6000 MASK FITH CARCHOAL FILTERS!!!
- some other liquids, wiping papers, cloths, paper, degreaser,
- any other thing I've forgotten ;)
OK, so I take no responsibility for any others work, harms, part damages or any law braking activity caused by following my aids.
You must know, that I'm not a professional car painter. I am a passionate, I feel the work, how the paints act and I can predict how will they act in long term.
This method of painting is effective using any paint but is describing ADLER furniture paints. Theese paints are made of superior components, they have enough UV restrictive shields to be used outside, and they are very durable. They also have very much other helping components to make the painting process smooth and repeatable. The minus is that they need to stay 27 days not touched before they can be used in the normal way.
The ADLER is the furniture paint producer, but the paints doesn't really differ from other good products specially produced to paint cars. The point is, that ADLER is dedicated to furniture and the company doen't need to distribute car paints at all.
OK, so lets get into the project...
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1'st goal - the taillights:
At first I will paint taillights. So, I need: taillights, 3M wiping cloth, paper and the degreaser .
I want to achieve the same as the rest of the car look, so the taillights needs to act as they are painted the same solid color. But they need to be transparent, safe and durable. I also want a flat black car, so I need this kind of paint. So let's make some paint:
Mix the solid color with transparent paint to achieve semi transparent paint. The mixture proportions generally varies from 1:5 to 1:10. I used 1:7 and sprayed two times. Of corse all the paint intergents of the two paints needs to be the same. The paint will last mixed for up to ten minutes, than solid and transparent will start to separate. So hurry up after mixing paint.
1. clean surfaces well,
2. degrease the surfaces with a paint degreaser /check first if it will not disturb the plastic surfaces/,
3. wipe the surfaces delicately with the 3M wipe cloth /this is somewhere near the grade 500/,
4. mix the self made transparent paint well, add the second part of the paint/this which makes the chemical reactions/ add some dissolvent,
5. spray the color paint once - make thin surface spraying left/right than make the second up/down,
6. let it dry but not completely, we just need to wait untill the paint is completely dry,
7. spray transparent finishing paint in dedicated glossyness - I used 10% of glossyness to achieve flat look.
8. let it dry once more,
Here are the pics:
In the painting room:
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/taillights/2.jpg)
and in the sun:
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/taillights/1.jpg)
The second part of this thread is the glossy spoiler:
1. clean surfaces well,
2. degrease the surfaces with a paint degreaser /check first if it will not disturb the plastic surfaces/,
3. wipe the surfaces with the grade 320 paper to achieve plain surfaces ready to paint,
4. degrease once more,
5. spray the color paint once - make thin surface spraying left/right than make the second up/down,
5. let it dry but not completely, we just need to wait untill the paint is completely dry,
6. spray solid color paint for the second time,
7. let it dry,
8. spray transparent finishing paint 100% glossy,
9. let it dry but this time check the paint specifications to polish the paint in the right moment,
10. when it's time to polish, plain the surfaces delicately with grade 1200 paper,
11. use polishing paste, and felt to polish surfaces /beware of keeping rotating felt in one place for a longer time - it will surely heat the surface too much/
12. use window cleaner to take out the polishing paste,
13. take some photos to post them here ;)
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The last part is dedicated to flat paint. This is the most tuff stuff as it needs to be left after the last painting w/o touching it any more... So as I can't use 1200 paper to plain surface at the end, it needs to be perfect just before the last paint is put on...
Seems that it will never look acceptable, I know but give me a chance ;)
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/mess1.jpg)
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/mess2.jpg)
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/mess3.jpg)
Here are my aids:
1. We start by removing rust by a sandblaster, plaining surfaces with 150 grade paper and degreasing:
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/mess4.jpg)
2. use wiping device with 150 grade paper to make sure old paint is not slippy anymore. /this is very important to have the liquid filler sticky enough/
3. Use sandblaster to remove rust,
And for those who would like to know how sandblaster looks like:
The small handy sandblaster for cleaning out small rusty places
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/small_sandblaster.jpg)
The big sandblaster for big surfaces:
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/big_sandblaster.jpg)
So the sandblaster does this:
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/rusty_corner1.jpg)
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/rusty_corner2.jpg)
4. put the solid filler there to rebuild surfaces,
5. plain the surfaces with wiping machine /combined with 150 grade paper/:
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/surface_plaining.jpg)
6. degrease everything,
7. put the liquid filler/base paint/ on the surface
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/filler_done.jpg)
8. wait 24h to let the liquid filler dry enough to be able to plain the surface once more, to prepare it for the solid colour and the transparent finishing paint.
:-) :)
9. plain surfaces well using 320 grade paper on the plaining machine and for the tricky places use Your own hand,
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/surfaces_prepared1.jpg)
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/surfaces_prepared2.jpg)
10. put the solid color on the inside,
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/surfaces_prepared3.jpg)
11. dry it for 24H,
12. put the first solid color surface on the top of the trunk,
13. dry it,
14. put the second solid color paint,
15. put the 10% glossy transparent finishing paint,
16. let it dry for sure. Here You may spot that the paint has the orange skin on it - this is normal as it should be after third paint is put on one on another.
17. plain the surfaces once more with grade 1200 paper/ just as with glossy paint/,
18. You have plain surface to put the last finishing paint on it.
19. Paint the surfaces extremely carefull, making it as well as You can! Remember this is the last thing You do with the flat surface!!!
20. Let it dry for 27 days...
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So at last You should achieve something like this:
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/after_first_painting0.jpg)
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/after_first_painting1.jpg)
(http://www.e30.kamieniwnetrze.pl/trunk/after_first_painting2.jpg)
It took me about 4 hours of work plus all drying periods... Generally 3 days and You have it done!
And the last tricky thing You must remember:
The rust is still there, inside of the trunk in inaccessible places... So it must be protected from air and water by using proper liquids that keeps the irons rustfree. Ask Your dealer about the proper liquid! And apply it before placing the parts on the car!!!
GOOD LUCK!
Post Your comments, questions and post Your progress pics here, I'm looking forward to answer You! :)
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what do you think?
http://www.irankiusostine.lt/popup_product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=3988
http://www.eurogama.lt/nuotraukos_power/FT_104.jpg
http://www.eurogama.lt/nuotraukos_power/FT_94_a.jpg
http://www.eurogama.lt/nuotraukos_power/FT_123.jpg
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Only the 104 will work fine for Your purpose. But it needs tha blasting chamber...
The first - keep away! /You need protective gear for all Your body and about 8-10 bars of constant pressure to move the particles strong enough/ No, definately STAY AWAY!
The third and the fourth - I doubt they will work good enough for this purpose as they are open loop.
Try this:
http://www.narzedziowy.pl/product_info.php?cPath=56_171_492&products_id=1031¤cy=pln
this costs 42.5 euro
and this is the same as mine but different producer:
http://www.narzedziowy.pl/product_info.php?cPath=56_171_492&products_id=1030¤cy=pln
costs 120zl so 36 euros with the tax in it.
I can search for the english seller for You if You want.
I didn't expect to find it that easily... But they seem to sell just to Poland as there is no english translation of the shop or even an e-mail adress... So if You want I could ask them for You ;)
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Thanks good to see your approach.
What type of paint are you using? Do you really wait 27 days before your clearcoat? My paint says wait an hour .
The North American term for planing is sanding as in "150 grit sand paper" and a "sanding machine", or as in "you can sand by hand".
Nice looking spoiler
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No I wait about an hour to clearcoat it...
But it needs 27 days for all the chemical processes to stabilize. So after painting, the surface is ready after 27 days. But can be used after 2-3 days after painting. It is fully durable after 27 days.
The paint -> polyurethane they say... So it it harder version of acryllic used normally for cars. I didn't use Sikkens just because they didn't have so much flat clearpaint.
About spelling... I've been learning english in our local school so I understand that my language may be different from that used by foreign english/american speakers :)
The North American term for planing is sanding as in "150 grit sand paper" and a "sanding machine", or as in "you can sand by hand".
About my spelling:
ok, so wiping cloth is not a paper. I was using grade as grit, sand paper - ok, I was using wiping paper. And plaining - I meant that You have to make Your surface plain. So this is not sanding. Sanding means "cleaning from" using blasted sand...
Sorry for mistakes ;)
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:) Hey they aren't mistakes just regional differences.
I respect anyone that can speak multiple languages. I struggle with just one!
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:) It is always nice to hear something like this... :-)
It is technical language, so it may differ much from place to another...
;)
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nice writeup :cool:
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:) It is always nice to hear something like this... :-)
It is technical language, so it may differ much from place to another...
;)
One language that is universal is, me breaking things on my car as I try to repair or replace parts. It sounds like this #$^@!@@ !!! Thanks for the write up. I really like the way your car is shaping up. Send more pics of the car and drives in your country!
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:) Surely I will take some more pics...I will build up my member profile thread than, but I must put my car together first...
I'm observing the trunk at the moment - I wanted to know how does the paint react to dirt/washing/drying...
And I must say that it reacts terribly bad... Just because it is flat. It is terribly hard to achieve clean surface after it is beeing cleaned... But it is possible and it looks just as good as before ;)
I think that I must use some dishwasher salt to keep the minerals away of my fresh paint. It seems that it has to be well watered before drying. It is too soon to judge, but i didn't expect the problem will be that hard...
Any ideas? Maybe there is some way of washing the flat paint easily... ??
You know - the point is to keep the car with the flat paint on it - not just repaint it... I want to use my car pretty often, not only sundays when it is not raining...
PS:
I use the universal language a lot too, especially when I see that my mechanics have welded some screws to the car because it was faster to finish the work that way... ;)
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Would a carnuba wax work on the flat paint. Motorola makes a cell phone with a flat blue color. It fells like it has a dull or satin flat clear finish.
BTW is there a BMW CCA in your country?
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nice idea with this wax - I will buy some tomorrow...
BMW CCA - You mean BMW Car Club of America ?
No, nothing like this here in europe... :D We have our local club in the city named Torun.
http://www.bmwmpowerclub.com.pl/ but i didn't join them because I don't see any reason to act as a young boy ;)
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I Heart ABRAX For This Wonderful DIY
i just need a little clarifacation
4. mix the self made transparent paint well, add the second part of the paint/this which makes the chemical reactions/ add some dissolvent,
is this transparent paint your talking about clear coat?
so i mix the clear paint + color paint(i.e. flat black) and then add some dissolvent? and then spray within ten minutes. i know nothing of painting cars so what iss this dissolvent? or maybe im just retarted help me out bro
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generally car paints consists of three intergents...
1. the paint,
2. hardener,
3. dissolvent.
the first is the paint base, the second is needed to start chemical reactions ald help the paint to stick to the painted surface and the third, which is needed to get the proper mixture to spray it well... Usually it is about 18 secs with 4mm Ford Cup... But it may differ with different car paints producers...
Transparent paint - the clear coat or whatever You name it is the last needed paint You spray on the car. - Mix it with the color paint and You get the transparent color paint...
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what psi is your sandblaster? usually panels warp due to the high heat and pounding from the sandblaster... just a word of caution to anyone planning to sandblast anything... keep a lower psi and keep the gun as far away as possible.
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i get it Now! :D
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what psi is your sandblaster? usually panels warp due to the high heat and pounding from the sandblaster... just a word of caution to anyone planning to sandblast anything... keep a lower psi and keep the gun as far away as possible.
Haha - right... Sandblaster can totally destroy the iron surface... It mainly depend on how big are particles and how big is the sandblaster...
1. The small one: I use it with 10 bars and nothing wrong happens. This one is really small and the energy with which particles are thrown is not really big compared to the pressure.
2. The big one... This is much much stronger. Usually i blast with 5-7 bars, but it is highly too much for big plain surfaces like doors or trunk or anything big. The tranny I blasted with 4.2 bars. It was not causing overheating or any other problems like deformations at all.
BUT REMEMBER:
-do not blast long in one place,
- do not use too high pressure /just raise it from "idle" to the point when everything starts to work just fine and DO NOT RAISE THE PRESSURE ANYMORE.
I didn't tell You but, my friend wanted to sandblast BMW 327 old classic car, so he has taken it to the guys who usually sandblast bridges or other urban stuff... It was huge mistake... The car needed to be hammered to give it previous shape... All the irons were nicely sandblasted but totally deformed due to local heat and monstrous energy of big amount of high energy big big particles.
They used sand which is 1-5mm in diameter... I use tha sand which is 0.1 - 0.3mm in diameter. Theese are two totally different machines. My nozzle is 3mm in diameter , their nozzle was 18mm in diameter... And they didn't do any try! Just sandblasted the whone car - stupidity can be unlimited. No more comments ;)
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The look with flat panals and glossy spoiler is fantastic! I want to see several pictures of the whole car. Before wax, I think you should try the dish washing soap like you mentioned.
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Im really confused how you refurbished your spoiler.
you sanded it down then used bondo? or some other filler?
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Hi all, I'm back again. Older, better wiser! But I've lost all my photos ;) I mean that I've had them erased from the server, so it will take a while till they are all back (Yes, I'll do it :-) )
Anyway, I'll answer fiftytakedowns. My spoiler was in quite bad shape, so I've replaced it. But the new one was silver, so I've sanded it with the fine 3m 3d mesh( cloth or whatever You wil name it I mean this blue/violet something sold in painters shops :-) ), I can't actualy remember if it was broken or not, but You can't fix the spoiler with a regular putty. You may wish to use special "bumper putty" which is elastic enough to be placed on ABS, plastics or even hard rubber. But the trick is when starting to adhesing anything to plastics or rubbers. It is absolutely a must to use special plastisc adhesive before even putting a putty on it. Otherwise it will simply fall apart.
The BMW e30 spoiler has to have it's inside steel parts completely free of rust as You are unable to derust them. They are put into a rubber!
:-)