M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: Lord Jax on April 26, 2007, 05:29:57 PM
-
There's a clip on YouTube of an e36 318 w/ an s2000 motor swap.
Which leads me to ask if anyone here has or knows anyone who has done a japanese motor swap into an e30.
If my motor goes bad I was thinking maybe swapping in a ka24de motor from a Nissan. It's the truck motor they put in the North American 240sx's. Twin cam, stout internals, lots of parts for cheap, decent horsepower n/a.
Besides custom mounting everything, swapping over the ecu, motor, trans, and accessories, what would be needed? Custom exhaust and drive shaft and maybe the rear swapped in from the 240sx?
-
I´m doing a CA18DET swap as we speak,
total rebuild of the engine, new turbo stuff, engine management,
new bushings ,
total will be less then $5k running at 300hp or so,
-
i was thinking about that about a week ago. my boss has a s2k and i was thinking that that would be sweet to have in my car. where did you find that video. i would love to see it.
-
its on youtube
-
I saw something months ago on ebay. It was an E30 M3 with an SR20DET that came out of a Silvia S15 with a GT40 turbo and a HALTEC standalone that supposedly made 700 horsepower.
-
There's a clip on YouTube of an e36 318 w/ an s2000 motor swap.
its on youtube
i already knew that....i can't seem to find it on that...which would be why i asked what the address was....
-
I saw something months ago on ebay. It was an E30 M3 with an SR20DET that came out of a Silvia S15 with a GT40 turbo and a HALTEC standalone that supposedly made 700 horsepower.
The sr20det is the tried and true favorite as the Aussies have been doing them since the early 90's. They interviewed one guy on a video called fast 4's and rotarys(volume 2?) and he claims that he didn't fabricate any engine mounts for the conversion. He just mix and matched various factory mounts. I would like to know what combinations he used.
As for the S2000 motor, it is a tall motor and would stick above your hood. The video on youtube has the E36 hood propped up towards the back so that it can clear the valve cover.
-
i already knew that....i can't seem to find it on that...which would be why i asked what the address was....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bCo00asduEQ
Well I'm really thinking hard about a ka24de swap.
-
someones doing the rb26 twin turbo skyline motor into an e30 on e30tech.
-
someones doing the rb26 twin turbo skyline motor into an e30 on e30tech.
Awesome, when I asked on e30tech about it, all I received was a few ignorant comments about how japanese motors are garbage in comparison to the mighty german motors.
Glad to see the m42 crowd is more open to the idea of cross breeding a car.
-
Hmmm, I might be getting a 91 318is soon, and I was wondering the exact same thing. I actually own a Nissan truck with the ka24e engine, and it keeps going and going even though the truck is rusting away. It has decent torque, but I think that I would opt for the sr20det swap if I were to put a Japanese engine in…
Heres (http://www.dentsport.com/gallery/v/dsg/projects/bismo/) the only site I found of an sr20det swap... Only pictures
-
WHAT A BLASPHEMY!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: realy guys the only think you care is about bigest engine ? im gone never swap a japanese motor into my bimmer if you like just buy a japanese car some honda or whatever :( :( :(
-
Hmmm, I might be getting a 91 318is soon, and I was wondering the exact same thing. I actually own a Nissan truck with the ka24e engine, and it keeps going and going even though the truck is rusting away. It has decent torque, but I think that I would opt for the sr20det swap if I were to put a Japanese engine in…
Heres (http://www.dentsport.com/gallery/v/dsg/projects/bismo/) the only site I found of an sr20det swap... Only pictures
Why? The ka24de is accessible here in the states for cheap, and it can handle more boost and is more reliable. If you go to 240sx boards you'd be surprised to see how many guys kept their ka24de and boosted it or went n/a with carb or ITBs.
The sr20det has legendary status just because it was a fad early on in the drifting scene. It's a great motor don't get me wrong, but for something that would be easy to fix and less of a headache to pass emissions I'd say stick with the KA
-
WHAT A BLASPHEMY!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: realy guys the only think you care is about bigest engine ? im gone never swap a japanese motor into my bimmer if you like just buy a japanese car some honda or whatever :( :( :(
I'm not concerned about biggest engine. I'm concerned about the best engine for my application, reliability and price/availability of parts. ka24de are plentiful because they're so widely used in Nissan applications. Bigger displacement than my stock motor and more reliable.
If I could afford a BMW motor I would, but... gotta pay my other bills.
-
As far as I’m concerned, an engine is an engine... just a block of metal. You shouldn’t decide on what engine to use based on its badge, but rather if it is more practical for your application.
Why? The ka24de is accessible here in the states for cheap, and it can handle more boost and is more reliable. If you go to 240sx boards you'd be surprised to see how many guys kept their ka24de and boosted it or went n/a with carb or ITBs.
I believe the KA engine is an iron block, while the SR is aluminum so it wouldn’t upset the balance of the 318. I would also think that the internals of an engine built for boost would be stronger than that of an NA engine like the KA?
-
BMW-Jap crossbreed is a norm here in Malaysia... For E30, The SR20DET and RB20DET from Nissan and Toyota Supra's 1JZ are the usual engines to be swapped into the engine bays. It does give good and cheap horsepower. I've driven one with SR20DET and it's fast. Clocked a 6.5sec 0-60mph using the Gtech Pro. However, it doesn't have the feel of a BMW anymore. the clutch feel is different, so is the gearshift, amongst other things...
And if not done properly, it's more difficult to troubleshoot cos is a crossbreed ..
-
the s2000 engine would be amazing
-
I always wanted too put a s2000 motor in a striped out first gen rx-7. and looked at buying one from a freind but they are just too expensive of a honda engine. kinda like the vr6 of hondas. i also considered a turbo honda b18 into a porsche 914 mmm but then i found my bmw :)
-
I am *extremely* excited about this:
(http://ee1394.com/bmw/fotomat/070429/images/DSC_0667.jpg)
I know, well, nothing about these engines or rotary mazda's in general, but in my quest to put an array of ever *smaller* engines into an E30... this has to take the cake...
Can anybody fill me in on the 13B rotary engines? Let's hear it!
There is SO MUCH friggin room in the engine bay... imagine the turbo plumbing etc. etc. I'll stop now.
-
I am no rotary expert so dont take any of this as rock hard fact.
We just rebuilt a 13b for our RX-7 race car. The 13b is a little larger than the 12a 1300cc vs 1100cc. Apparently it is easier to build the 12a to more power with NA, and the 13b is useless without a turbo. I am sure that tere are exceptions to any of this. I would love to have a wankel powered e30. Even if you cant get more power out of it, the sound, weight savings, lowered cg, an else would be worth it.
Oh and even though mazda made the engines, Wankel was a German, so it is legit.
-
can you post any more info or deets. I truly know as much about these little engines as I do about... well, I know very little.
The fellow with the project car pictured claims with the twin barrel weber he is right around 200 hp...
I would happily go turbo however!
-
well when you truly know nothing, there is always wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine#20B)
-
thanks I got the wiki... which is, btw, never ever factually incorrect or biased!
-
I think with how much it would most likely cost to do a VTEC motor install into a BMW (engine management, custom exhaust, any other plumbing to be rerouted, the engine itself, etc.), it would probably be easier and cheaper to simply buy the 2100 Rally motor from Metric Mechanic. All that requires is a chip, an empty engine bay and $9k in liquid funds from what I understand.
Of course, I'm the freak who wants to put an M47 in his 318i, so I just need to go sit in the corner and think about what I've said...
-D
-
I would also think that the internals of an engine built for boost would be stronger than that of an NA engine like the KA?
Well back when I had my 240sx I looked into doing an SR swap, but found thyat the KA was cheaper to turn into a turbo and a lot more reliable since parts are cheap and plentiful. And remember it's an iron block because it's a truck motor from the early 90's. I would think a truck motor had beefier internals than the sr20det.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KA24DE
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/KA24DE-1998-Nissan-240SX.jpg)
-
I´ll be pushing out about 300-330hp from the CA18DET
the engine will be TOTALLY rebuilt, new clutch and plate, flywheel as well,
new turbo kit, standalone, new exhaust, new intercooler setup,
new this and new that, gasket set
the total cost looks to be around $5k for the WHOLE swap including buying the engine having it rebuilt and everything else I listed,
about $6.4k for the whole car, new suspension, this engine conversion, new wheels, tires, complete set of powerflex bushings,
Now that is a nice bargain for about 1200kg´s and 300hp.
thats 220kw´s and 2666lbs , ALL NEW. almost.
I´m saying 1200kg´s as I´m not sure what the weight will be , but a
M42 E30 weighs about 2550lbs(1150kg)
-
I´ll be pushing out about 300-330hp from the CA18DET
the engine will be TOTALLY rebuilt, new clutch and plate, flywheel as well,
new turbo kit, standalone, new exhaust, new intercooler setup,
new this and new that, gasket set
the total cost looks to be around $5k for the WHOLE swap including buying the engine having it rebuilt and everything else I listed,
about $6.4k for the whole car, new suspension, this engine conversion, new wheels, tires, complete set of powerflex bushings,
Now that is a nice bargain for about 1200kg´s and 300hp.
thats 220kw´s and 2666lbs , ALL NEW. almost.
I´m saying 1200kg´s as I´m not sure what the weight will be , but a
M42 E30 weighs about 2550lbs(1150kg)
Pictures and video asap please :)
-
I am *extremely* excited about this:
I know, well, nothing about these engines or rotary mazda's in general, but in my quest to put an array of ever *smaller* engines into an E30... this has to take the cake...
Can anybody fill me in on the 13B rotary engines? Let's hear it!
There is SO MUCH friggin room in the engine bay... imagine the turbo plumbing etc. etc. I'll stop now.
1.3L of revving fury. There are a few guys in Cali that have this conversion on E30's and 2002's. 12a and 13b's are capable of making decent power(200 and above like you said), but the problem lies in the fact that you really need to put it into a light car(under 2k lbs) due to the lack of torque. Also when you're talking over 200 NA hp the motor will have to be spun to some crazy rpms making Honduhs look like Duramax diesels or something.
IMO, having this motor in a car above 2k lbs might suffice for track duties where you'll always be in the high rev band but won't be too great on the streets. Of course you can always try the 20b rotary(Edit: 3 rotors not 4 rotors) from the Mazda Cosmos and the like, to make up for the torque band.
Also once you apply one of the many famous porting jobs to the rotary, you can expect low double digit fuel economy, especially on a carb setup.
Depending on the motor build and type of usage, expect it to last from 25-50k miles before you have to freshen it and most likely service or r&r the apex seals.
-
torque isn´t a concern neither are rpm´s
just look at the HP curve and then adjust the final gearing to accomidate,
i.e 200hp in a 3000lbs at about 40mph should be fine, and then 65mph and so on
-
torque isn´t a concern neither are rpm´s
just look at the HP curve and then adjust the final gearing to accomidate,
i.e 200hp in a 3000lbs at about 40mph should be fine, and then 65mph and so on
Are you referring to the rotaries? I'm not sure I follow. If you looked at the many exotic ported rotary dyno sheets, they tend to be very peaky for the most part.
-
I´m just talking in general,
if you have a HP spread from 200-500hp, does it matter at what rpms?
or what torque is at those rpms?
No it does not ,
-
a 13b can make close too 200hp on stock ports with just about everything done (ported throttle body, ported intake manifold, injectors, modified 6 port system, headers full exhaust etc, a mildly streetported motor can hit 210-240 (depending on how mild and other mods) again though that really wouldnt come into its own in a e30 there just a little 2 heavy for the rotarys lack of torque in my opinion, now put that into a first gen rx7 or a porsche 914 and you have a pretty good street car/track terror. Turbo rotarys are another beast altogether and you can get too 300 hp fairly reliably (relative word in turbo rotarys) you get arond 400 in a 2nd gen turbo motor (13bt) and its generally a ticking time bomb, Though 3rd gen rx7 motors are awesome, (13brew) and are capable of 400 reliably and more if your careful with tuning but they are pricey.
-
ohh yeah and the 20b is a 3 rotor (an amazing motor by the way but ridiculously expensive too work on), mazdas lemans car had a 4 rotor called a 26b i believe? which made 400 hp na on 83 octane if i remember correctly, its been awhile since ive been around rotarys, i owned a 87na rx7 back in high school.
-
I´m just talking in general,
if you have a HP spread from 200-500hp, does it matter at what rpms?
or what torque is at those rpms?
No it does not ,
To some people it does. For the street, I don't want to be revving to 8k everytime just to get it going. I would rather have a good broadband hp/torque band on the streets even if it means sacrificing some ponies. I also don't want a peaky motor where I'll only achieve peak hp within a 400rpm range.
Broadband power is why a lot of people buy European cars when it comes to the power department. Something a lot of the smaller Japanese cars don't exhibit on na motors.
-
To some people it does. For the street, I don't want to be revving to 8k everytime just to get it going. I would rather have a good broadband hp/torque band on the streets even if it means sacrificing some ponies. I also don't want a peaky motor where I'll only achieve peak hp within a 400rpm range.
Broadband power is why a lot of people buy European cars when it comes to the power department. Something a lot of the smaller Japanese cars don't exhibit on na motors.
I agree, but In strict math terms HP is the final ruling when it comes to accelaration,
I like a peaky motor, i.e builds up to a final scream, I hate revving hard and feel the torque build up take a nose dive and the car falls flat on it´s face
Also, with the right trans and diff gearing you would never be the wiser to what rpms you are at unless from the noise or tacho,
Well you get what I´m saying
-
If you want a Japaness car buy one , you cant do that to your BMW for the love of BMW don't do this
-
I'm totally looking for another motor to put in a E30. I like the chassis, but the motor sucks. The other german motor options are pretty heavy for their power and cost, so I'm also looking at something non german to pop in there.
The fact that BMW people don't like it makes this idea that much sweeter. "Mmmm Bimmer boy tears..."