M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: epabillo on March 31, 2006, 07:47:40 AM
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Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine
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I remember seeing a post regarding replacing the stock M42 e30 from 1991 318i injectors with bigger ones from a Mustang.... Has any one done it here? Please let me know...and if you have the part number as well.... How easy is the install?
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The stock injectors and the mustang injectors are physicly identicle. They both flow the same amount of fuel at 20.5lbs/hr although the mustange injectors are rated at 19lbs but this is at 33psi and not the 43psi of stock bmw, but the mustang injectors have 4 pintles or holes so the fuel is better atomized which produces a better burn and more power which is what we all want.
you can find the mustang injectors all day long on ebay just becareful of which one you buy the early mustang injectors are single pintle ask the seller to make sure that they are the right ones.
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So was it confirmed that the M42 injectors are 20.5#/hr? The PN is still the same as the M30 injectors, and I am really sure those are 17#/hr. I put in the S50 ones at 17.5#/hr, and it is running just fine, even a little smoother than before. It would be running really lean if I went from 20.5 to 17.5.
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I have used this site to determine the correct flow for the folowing injectors.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
The ford injector is part number 0280150556 210.0 cc/min at 43.7psi (3 bar)
M42 injector is 0280150714 213.9 cc/min at 43.7psi (3 bar)
M50 injector is 0280150415 190.2 cc/min at 50.75psi
so the Mustang injector is just a little small but not enough to worry about.
The M50 injectors are rated at around 180 cc/min at 3 bar.
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finaly this issue has been cleared up!
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Yikes! I better put some higher flow ones in, STAT! I cannot be running around with the MAF conversion & these things!
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Oh, and what yeat Mustang can I find these injectors on? There is a Pick-N-Pull nearby with lots of them. I know only some have the 4-pintle injectors...was that year-specific?
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finaly this issue has been cleared up!
lol, why did no one listen to me?! I've said the m42 714s are 20.35lbs/hr for ages, even verified the part number with you mike to make sure the US part was the same! ;)
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lol, why did no one listen to me?! I've said the m42 714s are 20.35lbs/hr for ages, even verified the part number with you mike to make sure the US part was the same! ;)
haha i know, but yours is a crazy european car:) and i didn't have my Pn's to verify the same injectors. i was always told they were 17.5lb/hr. but thats ok cause i have the 4 pintle stang injectors.
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Tim s some times we need to learn the hard way. I tied the M50 injectors because of false info on another bmw forum. After I installed them and recalibrated the SMT6 I am using on the MAF conversion I did notice a positive change so I though nothing of it and then I did some research on them and was shocked to find they were smaller. I then settled on finding injectors with the same flow rate as stock with 4 pintle since I did not think I needed extra fuel since the M42 runs rich any way. I installed the ford injectors recalibrated the injectors and was plesently surprised at the results. There was a significant increase in the torque curve and the car pulled much better at the top end.
I dont know what year mustang these came out of but there are plently of them on ebay as 19lbs injectors since the ford fuel pressure is less than 3 bar.
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the m42 doesn't run rich...
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I have to disagree with you Kowalski, I use an A/F guage and it runs rich at WOT not by much but it is definatly not lean
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sorry, no offence meant chaps! as for the running rich at WOT - barely any cars run stoich at WOT, most run 12s/13s AFRs, the m42 is pretty lean for performance really
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I have to disagree with you Kowalski, I use an A/F guage and it runs rich at WOT not by much but it is definatly not lean
do you have a wide band 02 sensor? or is it just the stock on?
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When I dyno'ed my car a while back the numbers were REALLY lean down low, and barely rich at higher RPM's. Here is a plot of the AFR. This was with stock injectors as well.
(http://www.e30tuner.com/other/afr.gif)
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When I dyno'd my car stock the A/F was in the low 13's across the board. The dyno operator said that is about what they aim for when tuning for power.
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When you say stock, you talking M10 or swapped M42?
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bmwman, i'm not sure yours was running right on that dyno run, that at WOT? that seems way too lean at 3k and too lean throughout, even for a standard m42. all your motronic sensors etc on form, o2 ok and fault codes clear etc?
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That was on the previous car. I am pretty sure everything was running A-OK. I heard somewhere that the Conforti chip is tuned a little lean, but I could be wrong. Anyone else have a plot to compare it to? Stu McHenery, YEARS ago, said that the M42's problem is its injectors not flowing enough, and it does lean out a little up top...it was something BMW did for emissions.
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That was on the previous car. I am pretty sure everything was running A-OK. I heard somewhere that the Conforti chip is tuned a little lean, but I could be wrong. Anyone else have a plot to compare it to? Stu McHenery, YEARS ago, said that the M42's problem is its injectors not flowing enough, and it does lean out a little up top...it was something BMW did for emissions.
i'm not sure if it leans out at high rpms, but 20lbs injectors sound ok to me for a car with 140bhp. i know the standard chip is configured towards stoich for economy, but still imo that AFR graph you've got really seems way too lean at 3k, a bit up and down and generally a bit lean really. 16.5 at WOT at 3k is nasty. 15 or so would be ok, but 16.5 is surprising. you'd expect it to at or below stoich all the way on WOT, mb a bit higher at low rpms. even if on the graph yours wasnt at WOT until about 3.5k, 16.5 is lean anyway.
what power did it put down like that?
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i wonder if all m42s are like that, would be good to have a comparison...
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hey guys, what type of injector would yield best performance on a stock m42 w/ a Jim Conforti Chip?
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just go to the 19lb ford 4 pintle ones, since they're the same flow, but better atomization.
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Maybe I missed it but did we ever get a recommended year Mustang to pull these injectors from?
Thanks,
Chris
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so i bought some of the mustang injectors, but i have never pulled injectors from an M42. does anyone have a DIY or pics? how long does it take? do you have to remove the valve cover gasket or anything else?
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When you say stock, you talking M10 or swapped M42?
huh? My car is a '91 318is. This is m42club right? :p
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Lol, for some reason I thought you were driving an M10 318 with the M42 swapped in. Silly me.
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"The ford injector is part number 0280150556 210.0 cc/min at 43.7psi (3 bar)"
"just go to the 19lb ford 4 pintle ones, since they're the same flow, but better atomization"
Folks, please, what year Mustang?
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I have some 0 280 155 715 Fords.
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I don't know about all this Ford injector stuff. If you guys want to get real technical you can get the RC custom or software programable ones, but they are real pricey.
Only Ford part going on my car is the Ox sensor. I think I used a Mustang or a Probe one on my last car as it was the cheapest Bosch on I could find. I think it was exactly $21. It's exactly the same one as the one for the BMW, minus the harness plug. Splice three wires and you're back in business.
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Cheap bosch>expensive bosch
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so... anyone want to tell me how to get good access to the fuel rail so i can install these bad boys?
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so... anyone want to tell me how to get good access to the fuel rail so i can install these bad boys?
I believe it's under the intake manifold. How long does it take to remove the IM for those that have done it? It looks pretty straightforward though.
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its easy, all you gotta do is take off the throttle boddie, disconect the thottle cable and the vacume hoses and the FPR hose, then pull off the heated spacer, and then take the manifold off and your there. the only part thats a pain in the ass is putting the FPR hose back on... while your doing this i recomend replacing most if not all the rubber hoses.
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i bought all the vaccuum hoses from bavauto a while ago but haven't got around to replacing them yet. this will give me the motivation. The throttle body looks like a pain to get off though, is it not? it looks like 4 bolts (maybe 11mm or so), 1 on each corner, and it looks impossible to reach the bottom two w/ a wrench or socket. any tips?
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It is a bit of a pain reconnecting the coolant lines below the TB, actually it is a real PITA. Other than that it is not too bad. Just be careful yanking the injectors out. They can be a real pain to remove.
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It is a bit of a pain reconnecting the coolant lines below the TB, actually it is a real PITA. Other than that it is not too bad. Just be careful yanking the injectors out. They can be a real pain to remove.
Why do you have to remove any coolant lines? I mean, might be a good time to replace these, but I don't see why you have to remove coolant lines to get at the intake manifold.
The part that makes me nervous is that my throttle cable is all taped up with electrical tape up by the pivot point. I'm nervous to see what's broken up there. :eek:
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I am referring to the little coolant feed hoses that feed the TB's de-icer. They are really short, and connect to the TB underneath it, but it has to already be in place for them to reach their fittings.
The easiest way I found to het this done was to unbolt the TB, unclamp the hoses, and remove the TB first. The manifold is cake after that. Installation is the reverse.
Check the FPR vacuum line for cracks. I got a new hose (rubber, braided on the outside with a nylon sheath) for like $.68/foot at Kragen. It is not a good thing to have a leaky one.
Also, check to see if the lower manifold is all gunked up with clack goop inside. If it is bad enough that you can see the goop in the injector bungs, consider removing the manifold & cleaning it. All you have to do is loosen some more bolts (MAYBE replace the gasket, if it rips, or you do not have any high temp silicone RTV), pull the vacuum line out of the brake booster, and disconnect the 2 little segments of fuel line going to the rail. Just be careful doing this as gas will likely come draining out. You may as well replace these fuel lines too, a 1' segment will more than cover the job for these 2 little bits.
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Removed the upper manifold on my car yesterday to access a water line that was leaking. I thought it was straightforward, mind you this was the first time I've ever taken it apart.
In reference to the FPR vacuum lines that have been discussed, what do those look like and where are they located as I've removed a few hoses and want to ensure these get replaced.
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the FPR line is located on the throttle body, it attatches to the small valve on the side of it.
how come you removed the coolant lines on the by the TB, you can just shimmy that thing off without removing the lines if you want... thats what i do.
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http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=63406&page=2
Thoughts?
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http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=63406&page=2 (http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=63406&page=2)
Thoughts?
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=538&page=4&highlight=pintle (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=538&page=4&highlight=pintle)
Post # 86. I'd not rush to upgrade fuel on your car just yet. What mods have you done?
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Seņor,
I guess I'm stocking up on parts first :D
Not sure what I'll be doing in the near future:
2.1
turbo
DASC
If I choose one of the above, will I still need the injectors?
Mahalo,
Chris
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^^yep you will need larger injectors for the that stuff. Stock m20ers even use bigger ones w/ the m30 AFM
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I would like to upgrade my injectors as well and ran across 19# injectors on ebay.
The info below is copied from the ebay page I found.
Ford Bosch Design III 19 lb 19lb/hr MPI (multi-port injectors) injectors, p/n's F4SE-A1B, 0280155700. 204cc @ 3 bar. Quantity 8. These injectors have a disc-type four-hole fuel delivery system in comparison to the single pintle of the Design II's for a more efficient fuel-atomization. This results in a more efficient power delivery and better mileage.
Also a great upgrade for BMW's; fits the BMW M20 fuel rail. These were pulled from a running engine and have been electrically tested. You get the exact ones in the picture.
MODIFICATION APPLICATIONS ARE :
FORD /LINCOLN/MAZDA
* 1986 -1995 5.0 V8 MUSTANGS
* 1996 -2001 4.6 MUSTANGS
* F-Series 5.0/5.8L EFI-MPI
* Lightning Truck 5.8
* 1993-96 4.0 Explorer
* 1990-95 4.0 Aerostar
* 1990-92 4.0 Expl/Ranger
* 1993-94 4.0 Ranger
* 1996 4.0 Aero/Ranger
* Mazda Navajo 4.0
* 1997-98 3.8 Mustang
* 1990-1992 5.8 E/F SERIES P/U BRONCO
* 1997-2000 5.4 EXPEDITION
* 1992-1998 4.6 CROWN VICTORIA
* 1986-1990 5.0 LINCOLN TOWNCAR
* 1991-1996 4.6 LINCOLN TOWNCAR
GM:
* 1990 deville 4.5 V-8
* 1991-95 deVille 4.9 V-8
* 1985-88 Firebird TPI 305
* 1985-88 Camaro TPI 305
* 1994-96 Caprice 4.3 V-8
DODGE:
* 90-93 Trk/Van 5.2 5.9 V8
* 87-95 Dakota 3.9 V-6
BMW Applications: 4.0, 4.4 V-8:
* 1996-98 840ci
* 1994-95 530i-3.0 V-8
* 1991-94 318i, 318is
* 1985 318i 1766cc L-Jet
* 1988 325e
* 1988 528e
* 1985-87 635CSi
* 1985-93 535i
* 1985-92 735i
* 1988-92 735iL
* 1987 L6, L7
* 1992-98 740i, 740iL
* 1992-98 540i
Hope this info is correct and helps those wanting years to look for.
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I don't know if these are easier to come by or if its even true, but I read somewhere on bf.c that S50 injectors fit the M42...
Found this (http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsBMW.asp) site though, and says they don't.
Any thoughts?
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I would like to upgrade my injectors as well and ran across 19# injectors on ebay.
The info below is copied from the ebay page I found.
Ford Bosch Design III 19 lb 19lb/hr MPI (multi-port injectors) injectors, p/n's F4SE-A1B, 0280155700. 204cc @ 3 bar. Quantity 8. These injectors have a disc-type four-hole fuel delivery system in comparison to the single pintle of the Design II's for a more efficient fuel-atomization. This results in a more efficient power delivery and better mileage.
Also a great upgrade for BMW's; fits the BMW M20 fuel rail. These were pulled from a running engine and have been electrically tested. You get the exact ones in the picture.
MODIFICATION APPLICATIONS ARE :
FORD /LINCOLN/MAZDA
* 1986 -1995 5.0 V8 MUSTANGS
* 1996 -2001 4.6 MUSTANGS
* F-Series 5.0/5.8L EFI-MPI
* Lightning Truck 5.8
* 1993-96 4.0 Explorer
* 1990-95 4.0 Aerostar
* 1990-92 4.0 Expl/Ranger
* 1993-94 4.0 Ranger
* 1996 4.0 Aero/Ranger
* Mazda Navajo 4.0
* 1997-98 3.8 Mustang
* 1990-1992 5.8 E/F SERIES P/U BRONCO
* 1997-2000 5.4 EXPEDITION
* 1992-1998 4.6 CROWN VICTORIA
* 1986-1990 5.0 LINCOLN TOWNCAR
* 1991-1996 4.6 LINCOLN TOWNCAR
GM:
* 1990 deville 4.5 V-8
* 1991-95 deVille 4.9 V-8
* 1985-88 Firebird TPI 305
* 1985-88 Camaro TPI 305
* 1994-96 Caprice 4.3 V-8
DODGE:
* 90-93 Trk/Van 5.2 5.9 V8
* 87-95 Dakota 3.9 V-6
BMW Applications: 4.0, 4.4 V-8:
* 1996-98 840ci
* 1994-95 530i-3.0 V-8
* 1991-94 318i, 318is
* 1985 318i 1766cc L-Jet
* 1988 325e
* 1988 528e
* 1985-87 635CSi
* 1985-93 535i
* 1985-92 735i
* 1988-92 735iL
* 1987 L6, L7
* 1992-98 740i, 740iL
* 1992-98 540i
Hope this info is correct and helps those wanting years to look for.
Are you bidding on these???? Is anyone ????
I will bid on them if no one here is .
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I just converted my volvo 960 from the original pintle injectors(0-280-150-762) to a set of 4 hole injectors from a 96 Saab 900 V6 (0-280-155-712). Both the old and new injectors are around 20# so I didn't go up or down in size but the difference from behind the wheel was very noticeable. More torque at every rpm, smoother idle and easier to start.
Now I've turned my attention to the bmw. Searching through yards this weekend I found 2 sets of Ford injectors for cheap ;)
0-280-155-700 (F4SE-A1B) from a 96 V8 Thunderbird.
0-280-155-715 (F5DE-B5A) from a 97 V6 Taurus.
Which ones should I install?. I'm leaning toward the Thunderbird injectors. Different sources quote different specs for these injectors. A couple of people responding to this thread last year said they were using both of these types. How is it working out? Any feedback?
For anyone that hasn't seen the difference between single pintle vs 4 hole injectors:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2194/2063195153_8e465e4bd9_o.jpg)
The old 150-762 EV1 pintle injector on the left vs EV6 injector on the right.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2319/2063987628_3b79b3f801_o.jpg)
Bosch old style EV1 injectors have 150 in the PN. EV6 injectors have 155 in the PN.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2055128589_31ab4630d6_o.jpg)
Bosch first introduced these injectors to the market in 1996 and then slowly phased out the pintle injector over the next 5 years.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2230/2063400461_4e368ebab0_o.jpg)
Injector flow lists.
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectordata1.php4
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
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working great, 3 years going strong.
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working great, 3 years going strong.
Sweet! Do you remember the part number of the injectors you are using? Did fuel economy or power change?
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I swapped in the the ford injectors (0280155700) on Monday. My god this fuel rail is such a pain in the ass. Anyway, the EV6 injectors are not a direct swap into our cars. Funny how everyone failed to mention this. I needed to put a 1/2" washer around the bottom of the injector to keep it in contact with the fuel rail. The little clips are not strong enough to keep the injector planted in the fuel rail when the system is under pressure. The injectors need to be squeezed between the intake and the fuel rail. I reinstalled the upper intake without a gasket because I didn't have one on hand. instead i used a some RTV to get a good seal between the two intakes.
As soon as I started up the engine, the first thing I noticed is damn smooth idle. This swap is worthwhile just for that. These injectors seem to react much more quickly compared to the factory EV1 injectors. I thought I had a worn out ICV because every time I turned on the headlights or switch on the AC, idle would almost die, and come back. Sometimes I would get some idle oscillations too. Now its perfectly even during load changes. Throttle response has improved noticeably and the engine is smoother as you go up through the revs. So far I put about 160 miles on these injectors, mostly short trips. The fuel gauge is about half way between 1/2 and 3/4 marks. We'll see how fuel economy does in the long term.
After more research I realize that in the saab injectors I put in the volvo were 21# vs the original 19# injectors. The 6cyl volvo engine has an AMM and knock sensor (Motronic 1.8) so it can adapt to the larger injectors. I'm not sure if the M42 has the same ability, but if I find another set of 21# saab injectors, I'll try those out on the M42 along with some intake work. When I find my camera I'll take some pics.
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EDIT: The washers are not necessary. These injectors fit without any modifications. I'm taking down the pics of the washers because it just seems to confuse people.
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hmm, those are the injectors i used. I used some out of an e36 2.5 liter, which are supposed to be the same injector and part number.
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The stock M42 injector flows 18.28#
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150714.jpg)
92-95 E36 325i uses EV1 pintle type injectors which looks externally identical to the M42 injector except for color. It flows 15.8#, smaller than even the stock M42 injector.
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?N=1580+9713+4294967010+9294
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150415.jpg)
The ford Injector I installed flows 19.4#
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155700.jpg)
After a little intake work I will switch to some 21 or 22# injectors.
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The one i used was 4 pintles not 1. and it flows at about 19.4lb/hr.
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The one i used was 4 pintles not 1. and it flows at about 19.4lb/hr.
Excellent! Its definitely not the E36 325i injector but it seems like the perfect size for this car. Did you run into the same problem with mounting the injector? If you get a chance to read the part number off of it would be helpful. I'm compiling a list of compatible injectors for a future write up. If its a bosch injector, I'm interested in the last 3 digits. 0280 155 XXX
thanks
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A nice comparison of different injectors and the spray pattern they produce.
(http://z-r-c.com/images/topics/injectors/SprayPatterns.jpg)
http://z-r-c.com/News/article/sid=32.html
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280150909
oh, and no i didn't have the washer problem that you did.
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0280155710
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Thanks for posting the Bosch part numbers. After 2 weeks of driving, I filled up this morning. 385 miles on 12.4 gallons. You do the math. This included about 20 cold starts, some highway, some city, a little stop and go traffic and a couple of canyon romps. The car also manual steering, electric fan and 3.64 gears. Its a hell of a lot more fun to drive than when I got my hands on it 8 months ago.
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A nice comparison of different injectors and the spray pattern they produce.
(http://z-r-c.com/images/topics/injectors/SprayPatterns.jpg)
http://z-r-c.com/News/article/sid=32.html
Makes me want to know what the two on the far right are...
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what about the late M42 on E36- from 95, do they still use one hole injectors( will this Mustang-mod work for me?)
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The picture is a bit blurry but you can see the 1/2" washer at the bottom of the injector. Oh and 190 miles at 1/2 tank so far.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/tjts3/pics194.jpg)
Justin,
Just curious... is it really "safe" to run the vehicle w/ your "washer mod" on the injectors? I would be concerned about a fuel leak if the injector were to shift or not be 100% sealed properly due to having to use a metal washer.
That solid orange, skinny Mustang injector is the newer style "mod-motor" injector as used on the 96+ SOHC & DOHC Mustangs (and other Fords).
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155700.jpg)
The other Mustang injector, which has the silver body & yellow top is the 5.0 19lb injector that was used on nearly all 1986-1995 Mustang 5.0's (and other 5.0 Ford products, including the Crown Vics, Lincolns, Broncos, F-Series trucks, etc).
You cannot safely use the newer style solid yellow injector in place of the older style injector due to the differences in height and sealing characteristics of the O-rings & fuel rail assemblies - mainly because of possible fuel leaks. Granted we are talking using these parts in BMW's so some of the above is null & void as it applies to Fords, but if it were me, I would surely use the same type of injector as a replacement (exterior characteristics/dimensions - height/o-rings, etc) rather than trying to make a different type "fit". Again, I'm not saying what you did is 100% incorrect, as it does seem to work, however, IMO it's not the best solution and just does not seem as safe w/ using a washer to hold the injector into the fuel rail & intake.
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You cannot safely use the newer style solid yellow injector in place of the older style injector due to the differences in height and sealing characteristics of the O-rings & fuel rail assemblies - mainly because of possible fuel leaks. Granted we are talking using these parts in BMW's so some of the above is null & void as it applies to Fords, but if it were me, I would surely use the same type of injector as a replacement (exterior characteristics/dimensions - height/o-rings, etc) rather than trying to make a different type "fit". Again, I'm not saying what you did is 100% incorrect, as it does seem to work, however, IMO it's not the best solution and just does not seem as safe w/ using a washer to hold the injector into the fuel rail & intake.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and im certainly not trying to push this modification as the end all be all in fuel injectors. I disagree on a couple of points. The ford injector is exactly the same height as the bmw injector, using the same size injector seals and the same electric connector at the same height. The only critical differrence is the shape of the body. Most manufacturers use the pintle cap as a mouting point of the bottom of the injector. BMW used the metal body, hence the need for a 1/2" washers. Both injectors were manufactured by Bosch. Yes, the washer is my own bodged invention in place of the weird bmw pintle cap but in 6 months and 6k miles it has never leaked. I've checked them frequently under pressure with the engine both hot and cold.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2088/2450385979_11527abe28_o.jpg)
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The FIVEOMOTORSPOR.COM site shows the 19# mustang injectors as Bosch #0-280-155-710 and #0-280-155-700. The picture for the #700 injector does not look like the stock injector (0-280-150-714 for the M42/M30) though. While i haven't found a definitive picture of the #710 Mustang injector, from the bellow link it looks closer to stock than the #700. It is also not clear from the below link if the #710 is four hole or one hole? I say closer to stock because of the clip that slides into the groove of the injector and around the fuel rail port to assist with holding it in place.
It appears the benefit of the #700 injector may be that is has four holes (vice a one-hole pintle for stock or a one-hole disc-type for the #710) but you may need a washer at the manifold end in order to help hold the injector in place because the clip can't be used?
(http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsBMW.asp
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I have the 710's. They are the 4 hole type.
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I have the 710's. They are the 4 hole type.
You didn't have any mounting problems, did you? I mean, did you have to use metal washers?
What type of mileage are you getting?
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No mounting issues. 25-27 around town.
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Any type of injectors you could use is the M3 pink top injectors. They are rated at 210CC which isn't far from the stock ones. The M3 injectors has 4 holes as well.
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EDIT: The washers are not necessary. These injectors fit without any modifications.
Last night I replaced the 19# yellow ford bosch injectors (0280155700) with 21.9# dark blue volvo bosch 960 injectors (0280155702). This swap goes hand in hand with my TB fix and CAI.
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Your car is becoming a 318is Volvo!
So why the switch? How is 22# going to help at the same fuel pressure and fuel delivery time? Were they cheaper? Did you buy new or junkyard?
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Your car is becoming a 318is Volvo!
So why the switch? How is 22# going to help at the same fuel pressure and fuel delivery time? Were they cheaper? Did you buy new or junkyard?
Sad, but true. Volvo fan, plug wires, now injectors. Pretty soon I'll have to swap badges.
The stock injectors (0280150714) are 20#. I initially replaced them with 19# ford injectors and life was good. Then I fixed the hot air intake, picked up a bunch of throttle response and acceleration in the mid range but nothing at the top end. Its obviously getting enough air now so, maybe the solution is more fuel. So goes the theory anyway. The dyno will tell all.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/2505220617_e08bb12e31_o.jpg
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So the knife edging will help huh?
Seems like an easy little project to pass some time.
I like the way the high beam intake looks. It does blend in better with both sides.
I'm considering eliminating the high beams and getting some dual filament H4 if I can find good rewire info. I think two black intake areas would look nice and I could pipe some outside air into the intake and down the header side to help scavenge hot air from the engine bay.
I'll be hitting up the junkyard soon and looking for volvos to get wires, fan and now injectors too.
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So the knife edging will help huh?
Seems like an easy little project to pass some time.
I like the way the high beam intake looks. It does blend in better with both sides.
I'm considering eliminating the high beams and getting some dual filament H4 if I can find good rewire info. I think two black intake areas would look nice and I could pipe some outside air into the intake and down the header side to help scavenge hot air from the engine bay.
I'll be hitting up the junkyard soon and looking for volvos to get wires, fan and now injectors too.
I have no idea if knife edge helps but I feel better knowing its done. These are the H4 headlights I'm using.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-3-4-4000-H5006-H4-EURO-CONVERSION-HEADLIGHTS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ33710QQihZ013QQitemZ230132376960QQtcZphoto
Cheap made in india but the reflectors are just as good as my old hellas. Don't use/buy any of the Autopal bulbs though. Even the 100w version are total garbage and most have the base on crooked. Pick up H4/9003 bulbs at the store. Napa carries German made 80/100w bulbs.
If you have sealed beams the H4 headlight is a direct drop in. No rewiring required. Elipsoids are a different story.
The fan is volvo 940/960. 850 also works but the shroud is a harder to use.
Plug wires are volvo 850
Injectors are 95-98 volvo 960/S90/V90. In general yellow injectors are 18-20#, Dark blue is 20-22#.
Most yards are having a 1/2 off sale this weekend.
http://www.picknpull.com/events_and_specials.aspx?View=Detail&ID=475
http://www.pickapart.com/
cheers
Justin
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I had an extra set of injectors from a 1992 E36 318iS that were in good condition. It turns out that they are also 4-pintle injectors made by Lucas. They have the following Lucas number on them: D3761FA. The BMW part number is 136 4 1739 242
Anybody know how these compare to the Bosch 155-710 injectors as far as cc flow and atomization?
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I'm hoping one of you can help here... I can't find any of the bosch 710 injectors, but can find plenty of the 700's all over. Well, I want to get more fuel in than those provide... would like a 22.5 lb injector. My last dyno run showed I was lean throughout the run. I am running a set of Delta regrinds (shrick specs) that came with my new motor. Also might switch to a conical filter instead of the stock box.
Will either, or both, of these sets work? Thanks a bunch for your help guys...
Mustang 22.5lb Injectors (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170232923644&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007)
Volvo 22.5lb Injectors (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270248641777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017)
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Not sure about the injectors in the first link, but there is a person earlier in this thread using the injectors in the second link.
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I just felt like adding, it is best to use Bosch 150 style injectors if you want a direct fitment and no washers.
All Bosch injector part numbers start with a "0 280 XXX XXX". The first three X's are the injector style. Bosch has two commonly used styles, the 150 injector which is wider, and the slightly newer 155 style which is narrower. So a 150 style injector will have a part number like "0 280 150 947".
When it comes to the two injector styles, practically no dimensions are the same, other than the same O-rings. In some cars the 155 style don't work at all. I recently helped out with an efi conversion on a 1989 Mercedes 190E, and where the 150's were able be used, the 155's were a lot shorter and wouldn't have worked well.
As an additional note, most car manufacturers run slightly undersized injectors since smaller injectors provide more accurate fuel metering and better fuel economy. BUT in the case of the M42, these are perfectly sized(20.35lbs/hr) for the engine and should be able to support 138 hp with 43.5 psi/3 bar fuel pressure (BMW regulators run at 3 bar + or - 0.06). So if anyone is claiming their car is running either lean or rich, then likely they have a mechanical problem or less likely BMW didn't make a very good fuel table.
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When it comes to the two injector styles, practically no dimensions are the same, other than the same O-rings. In some cars the 155 style don't work at all. I recently helped out with an efi conversion on a 1989 Mercedes 190E, and where the 150's were able be used, the 155's were a lot shorter and wouldn't have worked well.
There are 2 versions of the 155 injectors. Standard body and long body. The long body shares all exterior dimensions with the 150. There are a few versions of the 150 body injector with a 4 hole sprayer but mostly in the 17# range which is useless to us.
Short vs long version.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2615001538_2e0b6a54d6_o.jpg)
Every part number we've discussed thus far in this thread has been the long version.
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There are 2 versions of the 155 injectors. Standard body and long body. The long body shares all exterior dimensions with the 150.
Short vs long version.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2615001538_2e0b6a54d6_o.jpg
Every part number we've discussed thus far in this thread has been the long version.
Ahh!!! well that would explain a lot. Didn't know there short and long 155 style injectors. Thanks!
Personally, I'm gonna experiment with the Bosch 0 280 150 947 injectors if I ever do my megasquirt install. 24.5 lbs/hr, 150 style so they fit without washers, pretty widely available, and with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator they can be used for a very wide range of power. Supposedly they use a disc instead of the normal pintle as well.
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Ahh!!! well that would explain a lot. Didn't know there short and long 155 style injectors. Thanks!
Personally, I'm gonna experiment with the Bosch 0 280 150 947 injectors if I ever do my megasquirt install. 24.5 lbs/hr, 150 style so they fit without washers, pretty widely available, and with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator they can be used for a very wide range of power. Supposedly they use a disc instead of the normal pintle as well.
Sounds like a solid plan. I know theres a bunch of 4 hole injectors out there with the 150 body style that I don't have the specific info on. Definitely add new info you find here. This thread will become a valuable resource.
So far I have about 500 miles on my 0280155702 22# Volvo injectors Fuel economy and power have been stellar. I averaged 31 mpg on my last tank over the span of 3 weeks doing short trips. With gas being where it is, I find myself riding my bike a lot more and driving a lot less.
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^Thank you both very much for those responses. That helps greatly. I will go for those mustang ones then. Hopefully switching to 22.5# is appropriate since I am running those cams. If not, I'll head to the local yard and pull some mustang 19#'ers.
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Those mustang injectors that always seem to come in batches of 6, are actually off a 96-98 Ford taurus 3.0 24 valve V6. Some sites quote them as 22.x# while others have them closer to 24#. The truth lies somewhere in between.
0280155715
;)
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Sounds like a solid plan. I know theres a bunch of 4 hole injectors out there with the 150 body style that I don't have the specific info on. Definitely add new info you find here. This thread will become a valuable resource.
So far I have about 500 miles on my 0280155702 22# Volvo injectors Fuel economy and power have been stellar. I averaged 31 mpg on my last tank over the span of 3 weeks doing short trips. With gas being where it is, I find myself riding my bike a lot more and driving a lot less.
:eek: Damn, are you serious? I guess I'm still used to my E46 330i, with a whopping 12mpg in the stop and go + hills traffic i do. I really can't wait to get delivery of my 318is, which has been at my neighbor's garage forever.
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I wasn't trying to say that bigger injectors improved fuel economy. My mileage didn't change at all when i switched from 20# 155 injectors to 22# 155 injectors. Keep in mind that I've done a lot of other things to make the car to make it more fuel efficient like manual steering, efan, 3.64 diff, ditch some weight etc. Most of my driving is around Marin on the 101 at non peak hours. It would be a lot worse in Berkeley traffic.
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Big thanks to the guys who contributed to this thread. I installed my 155 700 19# injectors from a mustang a couple of days ago... wow what a difference. Engine is smoother, and pulls harder. I got these for free and will work great for now, but I will switch to 22.5# 150's in the future. Not a fan of the washer, they aren't very tight on there, but there aren't any leaks either.:) Will update with mileage after I put a whole tank on these.
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Excellent! Keep an eye on it for leaks for the next few days.
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i just put 556 19lb mustang 4 pintle injectors in my 318is
plugged right in, runs great.
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^What's the full PN on those? 150 556?
Well no leaks at all on my 155 700's and the car runs great with them, except for my first start hesitation... but that's another thread. Mileage didn't change... didn't really expect it to though. I'm getting about 25mpg city and 32 highway. Still very livable.
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I'll check the PNs, but the Subaru WRX has the same body as the long ones. They are light blue in color, and are 420cc.. you can cut the pintle cap off and have 800s..
Of course, these would require some serious fuel management, and worthless unless F/I..
edit: ok, very similar :)
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found a couple of pics from when I was 'modding' the WRX injectors..
left is "modded" one at 800cc, right one is stock 420cc
(http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/9974/22june015wi3.jpg)
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8260/22june003pk9.jpg)
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Will those fit in an M42??
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FUEL-INJECTOR-BOSCH-0-280-150-927_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33554QQihZ009QQitemZ190100407058QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
would these injectors fit, without the washers?
These are the specs:
0-280-150-927 21.8lbs 229.1cc
From this site:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH
And after reading this thread twice, what are the improvements? smoother idle? But perhaps I can get result with cleaning my injectors?
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I was doing some research on the Bosch 0280-150-556 Injectors and I was trying to find the Ford part number for it. (the reason being that all the auto parts stores I went to couldn't find the injectors from the bosch number) Here's what I found, mostly from this one website:
Final Edit: After looking around on many different websites and only getting conflicting answers I removed the (mis)-information I had posted here. Instead here is a list of the websites I was using as a resource.
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/page/page/4511825.htm
-A list of Bosch injectors available from Motor Man Fuel Injection Supply
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/page/page/5516057.htm
-A list of injectors by Motorcraft part number (Ford) available from Motor Man
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
-Motor Man information on the 0-280-150-556 Bosch injector. They list alternate Bosch injector numbers that have the same Ohms, flow rate, and casting numbers. Under that they list the "engineering number" which is the Ford part number.
http://www.motorcraft.com/catalog.do
-Find the Motorcraft part number by vehicle search
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php
-Find part numbers and applicable years
http://www.boschautoparts.com/Resources/VehiclePartFinder/
-Find Bosch part numbers by vehicle search
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They list alternate Bosch Injector numbers that have the same Ohms, flow rate, and casting numbers. Under that they list the "engineering number" which is the Ford Part number.
Be careful. Ford didn't use any 4 hole injectors prior to 1996. Mercedes was the first company to use them in 1992 on the 3.2 liter inline 6.
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I've got 4 556's for sale on ebay right now if anyone is interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140267857727
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I've got 4 556's for sale on ebay right now if anyone is interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140267857727
Bought and Paid. Thank you.
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so after all the discussion --- which mustang injectors should i put on my stock m42?
I have seen a ton of part numbers thrown around on this thread, and still cant figure out which car to pull these from. What specific year mustang will these come off and whats the best part number to use w/o having to mod anything with washers or the like. thanks
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so after all the discussion --- which mustang injectors should i put on my stock m42?
I have seen a ton of part numbers thrown around on this thread, and still cant figure out which car to pull these from. What specific year mustang will these come off and whats the best part number to use w/o having to mod anything with washers or the like. thanks
bump
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Read page 3.
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The injectors I used were from an '04 Mustang GT with Bosch # 1 280 150 556. These are a direct fit and depending on which list you look at, may be either a slight upgrade in flow or the exact same as stock. You may also want to look for 1 280 150 943 (I have 4 of these as spares if anyone is interested). These are either the same flow as stock or slightly less and quite a bit more plentiful. Again due to which injector list you believe. Both of these do NOT need washers to fit correctly.
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:p
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Just got 8 #0 280 155 700's off ebay. How do you guys recommend I clean them? I want to make sure they're good before installing!
Also, once I'm done I'll have four left over, if anyone's interested. :)
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Just got 8 #0 280 155 700's off ebay. How do you guys recommend I clean them? I want to make sure they're good before installing!
Also, once I'm done I'll have four left over, if anyone's interested. :)
I'm interested. Will PM you shortly.
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Are you using "used" injectors or rebuilt, or "sonic cleaned" or what for your car, tjts1?
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I, personally, am using 'used' injectors. I cleaned them pretty throughly, and ran the car on a bottle of injector cleaner mixed with about a gallon of fuel to make sure. Oddly my old injectors also seemed to be of the 4 hole type, but with a different head design. Either way, my car pulls much harder and revs more readily, plus has a smoother idle.
(also, I fogged my airbox, which on an E36 was as simple as pulling off the funnel/muffler thing and throwing it in the trash. One of these days I'll have to go to home depot and get some longer tubing so she'll be sucking something other than engine bay air)
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Are you using "used" injectors or rebuilt, or "sonic cleaned" or what for your car, tjts1?
I am running used injectors that have been sonic cleaned. I bought them here from dbgurbbs and sent them to witchhunter.com for cleaning. It's expensive but they do flow tests before and after, send them through 3 cleaning cycles, and replace all the o-rings, filter baskets and caps. They looked awesome when I got them back.
(http://www.m42club.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=26&pictureid=158)
Or you could clean them yourself.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/JF-Tech/BMW_E30_3_Series_fuel_injector_cleaning.htm
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Are you using "used" injectors or rebuilt, or "sonic cleaned" or what for your car, tjts1?
I have 0280-155-702 injectors in my car right now. There is no such thing as "rebuilt" injectors no matter what some vendors might have you believe. I clean them myself using this procedure.
http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=82
If anybody is interested, I still have a large stash of 0280-155-700 and 746 19#injectors. I can sell for $15/injector + shipping. I also have 21, 22, and 24#. Let me know exactly what you need.
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The little plastic caps on the ends of my injectors were pretty brittle, I took them off. Do I worry?
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The little plastic caps on the ends of my injectors were pretty brittle, I took them off. Do I worry?
I think that it should not affect the spray pattern. I wouldn't do it, but I get paranoid about those kinds of things. Just make sure the bottom of the injector is getting a nice tight seal with the manifold, you don't want any leaks.
You may be able to find an online parts store that can sell you just the caps, or maybe check with the injector manufacturer (bosch?).
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I'm getting a pretty tight seal with just the o-ring, making sure to coat it with motor oil beforehand. The little plastic rings that go on the end don't seem to provide any structural benefit. They don't compress the o-ring or anything. One fell into the engine while test fitting. Naturally I didn't want that and took the others off.
I also did the 1/2" washer trick, and can't see how it provides any help whatsoever. Then again I had just single handedly torn down my entire top end. A bit too exhausted at that point to really investigate...
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For you guys at altitude like I am here in Denver (6000'), larger injectors are not what you want. WE NEED MORE AIR!!
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Any type of injectors you could use is the M3 pink top injectors. They are rated at 210CC which isn't far from the stock ones. The M3 injectors has 4 holes as well.
Guys could we make a list with parts numbers and flow rates and a little description stating with what mods should work best?
Also its extremely difficult over here to get those mustang injectors over here, any thoughts on those m3 injectors. 2.3 or 2.5 m3? flow rates of the m3 types?
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Awesome thread guys, actually many awesome threads on this forum!
I bought my 318is only a couple weeks ago and i only dealt with M20s in the past so please be understanding :-)
I am installing a turbo on the M42 but I only plan on boosting 6-7psi on it, to give it a little boost on a well built, low budget set up.
I understand the stock injectors are around 20# on the M42, and I'm thinking of installing some 22-23# injectors to help the fuel supply under boost, maybe 24# tops. keeping in mind that I am in france and don't have fords all over the yards, what cars could I look for to find those injectors that will fit? Volvo? maybe other BMW or Mercedes?
thanks a lot!!
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Welcome to the forum. The stock injectors are either 19# or 20# depending on who you ask. I'm using 22# injectors in my naturally aspirated car without a problem so under boost I think you should be using at the very least 24# injectors. I don't know which cars in europe will have these but if you want a set of 24# injectors I can ship to europe.
cheers
Justin
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Welcome to the forum. The stock injectors are either 19# or 20# depending on who you ask. I'm using 22# injectors in my naturally aspirated car without a problem so under boost I think you should be using at the very least 24# injectors. I don't know which cars in europe will have these but if you want a set of 24# injectors I can ship to europe.
cheers
Justin
Thanks,
How much do you ask for 24# injectors? do they have the 4 pindles?
I found some 0 280 150 157 off of a jaguar 6 cyl 4.0, they are rated 22.3# @ 3 bar but they are low impedance, would that be a problem?
Thanks a lot
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The injectors would be $50 + shipping. I will throw in a spare just in case because these are used. When I get home tonight I'll have the part number. You need to use high impedence injectors on the m42. I would be happy to sell you the 24# injectors but I have to be honest, I don't think it's going to be enough even for 6-7 psi. I think you need something in the region of 30# for your aplication.
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The injectors would be $50 + shipping. I will throw in a spare just in case because these are used. When I get home tonight I'll have the part number. You need to use high impedence injectors on the m42. I would be happy to sell you the 24# injectors but I have to be honest, I don't think it's going to be enough even for 6-7 psi. I think you need something in the region of 30# for your aplication.
Ok, so i think I'll look for some larger injectors then, I might have found some 300cc, high impedance, that might be better.
Thanks
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The injectors would be $50 + shipping. I will throw in a spare just in case because these are used. When I get home tonight I'll have the part number. You need to use high impedence injectors on the m42. I would be happy to sell you the 24# injectors but I have to be honest, I don't think it's going to be enough even for 6-7 psi. I think you need something in the region of 30# for your aplication.
You have PM, I found out that 24# is good for low boost on the M42, more would be too large, if you have 24# injectors with the 4 pindles then I'd be interested
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I have a 95 M42, does it still only have 1 pindle or where they upgraded to 4?
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Well as near as I could tell the injectors off my '93 had four holes in the pintle, but they were buried way back into the injector assembly and hidden behind plastic bits. The mustang ones are right up front so they literally spray directly into the intake mani. :)
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Some of the later E36 M42 injectors used a sort of air injection into the fuel injectors in an effort to reduce emissions:
http://www.motortraders.net.au/groups/group.asp?group=1&menu=88
I'm not sure you'd want to swap this style over to the Mustang injectors because: you already have 4-pintle injectors, and emissions might be worse (if that's a concern) w/out the air injection.
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Some of the later E36 M42 injectors used a sort of air injection into the fuel injectors in an effort to reduce emissions:
http://www.motortraders.net.au/groups/group.asp?group=1&menu=88
I'm not sure you'd want to swap this style over to the Mustang injectors because: you already have 4-pintle injectors, and emissions might be worse (if that's a concern) w/out the air injection.
True the E36 M42 injectors had a larger bottom end diameter. Putting "standard" injectors like from a Mustang into the manifold requires special spacers.
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You can take a standard injector, stuff it into the plastic housing from the old injector and plug up the vaccum port at the top of the pic. The injector and plastic housing separate.
(http://www.motortraders.net/groups/attachments/1_88_t1194u08.gif)
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The E36 M42 injectors are the same size, I've got some sets of them and they are the same, the M44 have the larger base we are talking about here.
I'm not sure it's air injection, I'm stripping an M44 at the moment and the additional air inlets are for the idle air control that is mounted to the side of the throttle body.
M44 Fuel Rail and air lines from ICV
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1984/272c1di0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3734/29011rx6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
M44 Throttle Body
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8931/716c1wh4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
I'm pretty sure that I had a set of E36 M42 injectors that are 2 of 4 hole type
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I found this site that may help finding rates and such. Im not 100% sure on how accurate this iformation is. Even the site says they've had to change some of the info. So I figure we can help and benifit from this site.
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/page/page/4782443.htm
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The E36 M42 injectors are the same size, I've got some sets of them and they are the same, the M44 have the larger base we are talking about here.
I'm not sure it's air injection, I'm stripping an M44 at the moment and the additional air inlets are for the idle air control that is mounted to the side of the throttle body.
Yep, that's what my M42 injectors look like. 9/95 build date, large bottom with air tubes.
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Visited my favorite pick-a-part yards and found some of the yellow 0 280 155 700's from mid-90s 4.6L V8 Fords at $5 per injector. One was from a Mercury Sable, the other a T-Bird LX. There was a large list earlier on this thread about the possible applications, but the biggest help was getting answers on where these injectors were installed as standard equipment. An 8mm socket wrench was useful for undoing the Ford fuel rail bolts.
Haven't installed them yet, as I am in the mind to replace a slow-leaking radiator first (the RTV fix on the coolant reservoir tank could not be extended to other plastic parts).:(
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so do you guys think i already have 4 hole in my injectors on my 1993 e36 m42? production date 10/92? if not was it determined which one is a direct fit?
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According to realoem.com, there are four different part numbers for the injectors (part number 3):
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CA53&mospid=47490&btnr=13_0366&hg=13&fg=15
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pulled the injectors, and i have factory 4 hole injectors. sent them out to be ultrasonic cleaned etc..
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Last night I replaced the 19# yellow ford bosch injectors (0280155700) with 21.9# dark blue volvo bosch 960 injectors (0280155702). This swap goes hand in hand with my TB fix and CAI.
Had another question, so thought I'd bump this up!
Having trouble finding any of the above injectors (being the UK, its even trickier to find mustang ones!), but I have found a bunch of volvo injectors for sale on ebay atm, if I give you guys the part numbers, are you able to find anything else out about them?
Whether they're 4 pintle? Whether they'll fit at all etc? (pics included for your ease)
Thanks guys!
0280150762
(http://i10.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/42/68/8ed6_1.JPG)
0280150779
(http://i5.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/42/68/cacd_1.JPG)
0280150804
(http://i.ebayimg.com/21/!BQmi6d!CGk~$(KGrHgoOKkEEjlLmY7zeBJ5zYDNYO!~~_1.JPG)
Thanks!
Just had a quick search, came up with this site that tells me the 'Bosch Number', 'cc/min @3bar' and 'Resistance (ohm)'. Not 100% sure I get it all, the volvo ones posted by tjts1 give a cc/min of '231' and a resistance of '12.0'. The first two I posted give a cc/min of 200 and resistance of 15.9, which is ovbiously worse. The last set I posted show a cc/min of 311 and resistance of 2.4 though! VERY low resistance (bad?) but high flow rate! Bearing in mind the Ford ones tjts1 posted give readings of 200 and 14.5.
Sooooo?!
http://www.polog40.co.uk/article_injector_table.php
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You can look up their specs here.
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectordata1.php4
good luck
Justin
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Thanks!
See the link I posted at the end of my post - pretty much the same data.
Essentially, the last injectors will flow LOTS, BUUUUT the resistance is very low. I haven't the foggiest idea how well they'll fit, if they actually do, and I have no clues about the resistance. My guess is that I want similar resistance to your volvo ones, which is 12. What effect is this going to have? Etc...
(engines are one of those things I don't do much, although I'm getting there! I know how to do the HG now, and strip it down!).
So, flow sounds great, but that resistance leaves me clueless. If it was similar/close, they'd probably be worth trying for Ģ10! As is, an educated person's idea will be very helpful.
Thanks!
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There are generally 2 families of injectors. High and low resistance Our injecotrs are high resistance and should only be replaced with another high resistance injector. Anything over 12 ohm is considered high.
For flow rate, I wouldn't go more than 20% over stock for a NA aplication. I hope this helps
cheers
Justin
P.S
My friend in the uk pointed out that GM 2.5 v6 used in the late 90s saab 900 and vectra (probably a few others) has 22# 4 hole injectors.
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Thanks for that - thats also added in another option! Tomorrow I'll find a pic of a stock M42 injector, start comparing shapes so I can get one that looks the right type, ask sellers for photo's of the injector tips etc!
Ok, so high and low impedance is cleared up, how about the differences within them? Stick with high since thats relevant...
What'll the difference be on an injector rated at 200 cc/min with say a 12 resistance rating, and one at 200 cc/min, but resistance of 15.9? Faster flow on the 12. Which essentially makes naff all difference?
Important thing to remember: :D (so, aim similar/slightly higher)
M42 injector is 0280150714 192cc/min 15.8/9 resistance. (please double check that for me!)
(there's so much variation, the site you gave me said the above figure, the site I provided says 200cc/min, and someone at the beginning of the thread says 213cc/min! ARGH!)
Aim is for about 200-205cc/min about 16 resistance, pretty much like you then!
You've been a star, BUT I think you desperately need to lower your car ;) Or at least stiffen her up :D
Update: I'm still searching around atm, I suspect I'm going to quite literally go through the list of specs and compare whats viable! I'm researching the ones from V6's atm, dropped a few emails, had one reply stating 'These are a split spray pattern 'V' type.' which I'm trying to verify with photo's. If I get some, and find 4 pintle ones, I'll post up the results.
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You'll all be happy to hear you CAN get 4 pintle Vectra 2.5 V6 injectors, and they DO fit! I think they're from the GSI version - the non GSI ones are the ones with a v shaped hole.
But, like tjts1 I had to do some modding - I didn't have washers big enough and I live in a village with no shops, so I got a file out and started filing the fuel rail mounts down. took around 1.5mm off, and they now all sit fine and dandy! No pics of that though I'm afraid - you can imagine what 2 mounts look like filed down!
When fitting, I fitted them to the fuel rail, THEN inserted them in the holes. Not what the picture shows, that was when I first put them in, and realised that that wouldn't work!
Car feels slightly smoother and torquier. Its also stopped popping at all on downshifts :( I have 'knife' edged the throttle body butterflies and made a decent intake (piece of pipe through what was the main beam to airbox). Plan for tomorrow is to remove the second midbox again, I know that'll help too!
Pics:
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/2d_cutout/Picture052.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/2d_cutout/Picture053.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/2d_cutout/Picture050.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/2d_cutout/Picture046.jpg)
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Hey nice work and great writeup! That's exactly the injector PN (0280155712) I picked up off a saab 900 at the JY.
cheers
Justin
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Is that what you're now using then?
I'm not sure what engine work I can actually do to make the upgrade worth it. Although the car does seem to be doing as well, if not better on fuel already (the car is running some chip that it came with), but I'll keep checking that as the miles go by.
What other mods have you done? Much difference? I'd love to cam the car, but I'd have to find one 2nd hand (I don't do expensive!)
When're you lowering your car then? :D
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So in the end, is this mod worth doing?
Looks like a lot of work just for a smoother idle!
Or will you have gain in power also?
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what about fuel economy?
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is it worth it on the e36 m42, mine already has 4 pintle, would i see any change for the better.
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bbarnumboy - I'd say no. Unless you're doing engine mods, and so need to upgrade for higher flowing injectors of course.
I'll report back about the fuel economy, but despite the ones I got (part #0280155712) apparently flowing 213cc/min, I think the fuel economy has improved. Sitting at 70-75mph on the motorway she was sitting at the mark after 30mpg mark (is that 40 or 50 mpg?), whereas I used to get 35ish mpg on the flat. Also, after thrashing the car around a bit both sat and sunday I'm still going to get about 300 miles to a full tank, whereas I used to JUST get 300 miles if I took it easy all the time.
This still needs lots of watching though, and I'll report back.
Pitch-Black - as above, and I think it depends on what accompanying mods you do. When I cut my midbox out again (leaving only the frontbox and cherry bomb rear) I noticed another power increase! Without doing this, there's a minor increase all-round, but with a better flowing exhaust too, its definitely better and worth it for the Ģ30 I payed for the injectors, and Ģ17 I payed for 2meters of stainless exhaust tubing MONTHS ago, and the Ģ50 I payed for the 2nd hand welder, thats done pretty much all my welding on the car!
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papercutout, just for the record, you mean you filed down these two points? You took the thread bolts out I assume.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/169enpd.jpg)
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I realize now the whole washer thing is pointless. The injectors fit without modification. We installed a set for 19# EV6 injectors in another M42 with no washers, no modifications. I edited my previous posts to reflect this.
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I realize now the whole washer thing is pointless. The injectors fit without modification. We installed a set for 19# EV6 injectors in another M42 with no washers, no modifications. I edited my previous posts to reflect this.
Does this count for all injectors i.e. does a little difference in length with the stock injectors make no difference? Or just for the ones you tested? I was considering to upgrade to the Bosch 0280155712 injectors.
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Only applies to EV1 (stock E30/M42) long EV6 injectors.
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee301/deanscheidt/EV1vsEV6.jpg?t=1243226257)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2615001538_2e0b6a54d6_o.jpg)
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papercutout, just for the record, you mean you filed down these two points? You took the thread bolts out I assume.
Nope, I didn't take the thread out, I was just very careful not to mangle the thread so much it wasn't at all useable! Obviously, if you can be bothered, removing it WOULD be the best idea. It'd also make filing it down a hell of a lot easier!
Just to make life easier - were stock injectors to go back in, they would still fit fine, they'd just sit slightly further in.
tjts1 - when I did mine the o-rings were pretty much sat on top of the injector holes, hence filing it down. So obviously it does apply for some injectors, although filing down is probably better than fitting a washer in there ;)
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Thanks papercutout. I will follow your example. Seems like the nicest route to take.
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Hey guys, I just made the injectors swap on my E36 '93 M42. I upgraded to the 0280 155 712 Vectra B 2.5V6. 20euro all 6 pieces, great deal. The original injector as you know flows 200cc, and this one flows 213cc. Both of them are 4 pintle caps, but the difference is that on the vectra ones the pintles are right "on top", while on the original the pintles are 2,5-3cm inside. So, besides the 13cc difference the spray pattern is definetly an improvement.
For these injectors, filing would not be a good idea at all. If I push the injector all the way in, until it reaches the plastic edge, the Oring is already inside the intake and does no seal anymore. My english is rubbish and I'm not sure I explained it correctly. To put it in another way, the distance between the oring and the plastic edge of the injector is larger than the thickness of the intake. So if you file the mounts enough for the intake to support the injector properly, the oring would "fell" in the intake valves chamber.
With the injector secured on the rail with that clip, there is the 2,5-2,8mm between the plastic edge and the intake. The washer is not necessary because the injector sits nice and fine on the fuel rail and is also secured, but because I'm paranoid, I added the 2,5mm washer to eliminate the possibility for the injector to go too deep, just in that one in a million cases the clip fails.
The result is quite good, much more low end torque, different sound of the engine, more relaxed overall. Would recommend the upgrade.
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I actually had a gap between the injector and the intake hole - hence filing it down so they sat inside. A gap would mean unfiltered air etc getting in. Guess it depends on the car/set-up.
Glad it worked though!
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Ok, back with some updates on the situation. I was out of town for a week with work so I couldn't test the car in all aspects. Last night I had a few runs with two of my friends, both E36 320i. One of them has the engine running perfectly with 15'' alloy with 195/60. The other one has problems with vanos, the engine does not run very well and has got 17'' wheels with 245 tyres. We usualy run from 50km/h to 180km/h.
Before the swap, I only ran with the second one, that is not working very well and has got big wheels. It used to go 3 car lenghts ahead. Last night we were perfectly equal two times till 160km/h, and one time my nose went ahead went ahead 2-3m at 180km/h.
With the first 320 that was properly running he went ahead 2 car leghts, I do not know if the car has resoft or any chip. Probably not. I wonder what the difference would have been before the swap. Shameful I guess :)
I still dream to the day when an M42 will beat a perfectly working straight six, of course without supercharging it.
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I just installed these: 0280155710
Straight fit and very easy to install - even for novice like me. No signs of leaks (about 300 miles).
I bought them off ebay (remanufactured) and didn't realize I bought 8 instead of 4. So, I have 4 extra. Who wants them? (Asking $40 shipped in US or barter). PM me if interested (I don't always check forum, but PM will prompt me to immediately).
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Any trick to separate the fuel rail from the injectors? I have the Fuel rail and lower intake manifold off the head and just thought I'd ask before pull the injectors and rail off. I should have a set of eight 155 700s coming this week (only need four) and taking the time to replace hoses and clean things up before they get installed.
I did pull the retention clips for the injectors, but don't know if there is anything else holding the base of the injectors in other than the friction of the o-rings.
Thanks!
Rich :cool:
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As long as you have removed the small square clips holding the injector to the fuel rail, it's just a matter of pulling and twisting harder. Hold the fuel rail with one hand as close as possible to where the injector is attached.
good luck
Justin
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Thanks Justin! Drinks are still on me... :cool:
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I've found a set of Mustang Injectors on eBay, Bosch# 0280155710, pretty sure they're 21#, 4-pintle
will these fit a 1995 318iS???
Jester
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As long as you have removed the small square clips holding the injector to the fuel rail, it's just a matter of pulling and twisting harder. Hold the fuel rail with one hand as close as possible to where the injector is attached.
good luck
Justin
Actually got the injectors off fairly easy. I had the lower intake off the head already so I didn't have so much leverage to pull them apart.
So, I shot both sides of the injectors with PB Blaster, let them set for 30 minutes, then used a pair of brake caliper compressors between the rail and the lower intake manifold to carefully push the rail off the first two injectors. Then used one of the brake caliper compressors to remove the third injector, then just twisted the fuel rail to remove the last one.
The original o-rings were very hard and using this method made it very easy to remove them without damaging the rail or my shoulder.
Putting many things back together today, I expect to have it all back together next weekend.
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp105/BlackBMWs/318ic%20-%20DIY%20Mustang%20Injectors/DSC01723.jpg)
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp105/BlackBMWs/318ic%20-%20DIY%20Mustang%20Injectors/DSC01724.jpg) :cool:
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With the injector secured on the rail with that clip, there is the 2,5-2,8mm between the plastic edge and the intake. The washer is not necessary because the injector sits nice and fine on the fuel rail and is also secured, but because I'm paranoid, I added the 2,5mm washer to eliminate the possibility for the injector to go too deep, just in that one in a million cases the clip fails.
The result is quite good, much more low end torque, different sound of the engine, more relaxed overall. Would recommend the upgrade.
I recently also installed these same injectors (cheap ebarf deal). I ended up losing the washers altogether since I expected annoying rattles and I just trust the circlips not to fail. So far they haven't. The increase in power and even more so in smoothness is remarkable. Best upgrade for the small budget imho.
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Justin and I installed some 4 pntle injectors. there was benefits in MPG and throttle response
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iīm thinking of doing this, but only if it doesnīt affect emissions. the car has to have itīs yearly TUV exam scam.
anyone do this in an area that has emissions testing?
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I doubt it spanish_pants, but it'll be a benefit if anything - more efficient fuel burn = less emissions.
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All back together again. Seems peppier and way smooth. I'll see how it does over a week of daily driving vs. my thirsty 540it. :cool:
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Nice work. Let us know how it does over the long term. Great pics too.
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Long term for me - definitely a little up on power and torque. Still definitely getting more MPG - ALWAYS over 300 miles to a tank, once as much as 350 combined motorway and to/from work! Done a few thousand miles on them now too.
Anyone else?
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haha I have 2 years and probably 15k miles on various EV6 injectors. I have 22# injectors at the moment. Best I've seen is 35mpg on daily commute and 410 miles on a tank going to LA.
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so how many of you have installed the 208 155 700's in their cars? How did they work out with fitment issues and drivability over the time you had them in? just got a set and am going to install but i figured to get some input.
TIA
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Has anyone ever tried the injectors out of the 24v DOHC Ford/Mercury V6 3.0L engines.
0-280-155-715
LBS/HR 22.45 @ 43.5 PSI
Little higher flow rate then the mustang injectors.
Our pick and pull here has no mustangs (with motors left) but a few of these cars...I haven't had a chance to pull any yet but they physically look the same..Fiveomotorsports actually list them on there site for BMW's..
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They should work fine. I used those on my megasquirted mercedes. I have 22# injectors in my car and it runs great. With a chip it leaves a little bit of black soot on the rear valance. No visible smoke though. It didn't affect fuel economy.
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i just put in a set of the injectors along with a 3.5 FPR, and while i dont think it added much of any power, it does run a LOT smoother. i also have 4 spare ones (bought the set of 8), PM me if you are interested in buying them.
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It looks like I'm going to need to replace my injectors anyway so I figure I might as well go to the 4 pintle. Does anyone still have a set of these for sale? Thanks!
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92bmw 318is what injectors would be best for my car thanks
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I'm pretty sure the E36 already has 4 pintle injectors so this might not do any good for your car. Maybe just cleaning them. Somebody with an E36 needs to confirm.
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I've been reading through this thread and I still cannot figure out which "mustang" injectors fit the M42. I see "vectra", "0280155712", but I don't know what that means.
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Any Bosch 150 injectors should fit IIRC (in the middle of the part #, xxxx 150 xxx). The 155 injectors are too short, but can be persuaded to fit.
The yellow 19# Bosch injectors are installed in many Ford V8s, from Crown Vics to Econolines to Mustang GTs. Don't go after the older CFI single-point setups. Look for the 'cash for clunkers' cars...I've had the best luck there. They have the right impedance too.
I'll bet turbo cars would be a good place for uprated injectors, but I'd worry that exposure to heat soak might wear them out.
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Any Bosch 150 injectors should fit IIRC (in the middle of the part #, xxxx 150 xxx). The 155 injectors are too short, but can be persuaded to fit.
The yellow 19# Bosch injectors are installed in many Ford V8s, from Crown Vics to Econolines to Mustang GTs. Don't go after the older CFI single-point setups. Look for the 'cash for clunkers' cars...I've had the best luck there. They have the right impedance too.
I'll bet turbo cars would be a good place for uprated injectors, but I'd worry that exposure to heat soak might wear them out.
So if I go to pick and pull and find a 90's Mustang, the odds of those injectors being the 4 pintle ones you guys are speaking of are good?
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I'll bet any '90 V8 would have what you need. Later Fords have a different injector plug and won't work. Look for colored plastic-bodied skinny injectors. They'll be the ones. I think anything after 1990 is OK.
Ford uses small bolts to hold down the rail. I'd think an I4 like a Focus is easier to get at...but I'm not sure if they use high-flow injectors.
I found a nice set on a VR6 VW, but I'm unsure of their flow rating or impedance. They're a bluish color.
I was surprised at how small the injector holes were when I bought a set...more like motorcycle injectors...
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They're easy to tell apart. The single-point are the thick metal ones. I'll bet any '90 V8 would have what you need. Look for colored plastic-bodied skinny injectors. They'll be the ones. I think anything after 1985 is OK; that's when the last CFI V8s rolled off the lines.
Ford uses small bolts to hold down the rail. I'd think an I4 like a Focus is easier to get at...but I'm not sure if they use high-flow injectors.
I was surprised at how small the injector holes were when I bought a set...more like motorcycle injectors...
Thanks for the help Dave; looking to do this pretty soon.
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I have been using these in my 91 M42 for a few months now (SEE BELOW)..They fit with no problems...I did notice though when I went to pull some from various motors they used different style electrical connections and the part # on the injectors were different even though the motors were all DOHC...Just have to pull the intake and see that the connection matches..If I get a chance I will snap a pic of the injectors and post (I think I have an extra at the shop..)
24v DOHC Ford/Mercury V6 3.0L engines. (Can't remember what years offhand but I think mid to late 90's)
0-280-155-715
LBS/HR 22.45 @ 43.5 PSI
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I have been using these in my 91 M42 for a few months now (SEE BELOW)..They fit with no problems...I did notice though when I went to pull some from various motors they used different style electrical connections and the part # on the injectors were different even though the motors were all DOHC...Just have to pull the intake and see that the connection matches..If I get a chance I will snap a pic of the injectors and post (I think I have an extra at the shop..)
24v DOHC Ford/Mercury V6 3.0L engines. (Can't remember what years offhand but I think mid to late 90's)
0-280-155-715
LBS/HR 22.45 @ 43.5 PSI
hmmm....these are XXXX-155-XXX numbers...so I guess it's hit and miss right? As long as the connector is the same...
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hmmm....these are XXXX-155-XXX numbers...so I guess it's hit and miss right? As long as the connector is the same...
0-280-155-715 is the part # on the injector that has the correct connector....Some of the motors had a different style injector and part # even though the motors were the same...I can't remember if you can see the injector style without removing the intake first..
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There is nothing hit or miss. The information has been covered several times in this thread.
24v DOHC Ford/Mercury V6 3.0L engines. (Can't remember what years offhand but I think mid to late 90's)
0-280-155-715
LBS/HR 22.45 @ 43.5 PSI
Ford taurus 24v up to 96-97. After 97 ford went to a round injector plug. AFIK these are 24# injectors. Sort of the high end of the usable range of injectors for a naturally aspirated M42. Anything between 19#-24# will work depending on any other modifications you've done to the engine or your target AFR.
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155715.jpg)
The newer style ford plug on some (98+) vehicles which we can't use are the green and black injectors on the right.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/yokomura/4BangerJP/fuel_injector/Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg
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Damn. That's exactly what I wanted to say. With pics. Awesome post.
I took a look at mine for some pics, I have the Mustang 19# fatties. They are definitely 4 hole partially shrouded injectors.
Doesn't the e36 use an air injector shroud that surrounds the injector?
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Sorry...DBL POST..
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Looks like some conflicting flow rates on these...Nevertheless they still work on fairly stock m42..(COP kit, K&N, fan delete, chipped)
0-280-155-715
LBS/HR 22.45
CC/MIN 235.9
GRAMS 169.7
PSI 43.5
BAR 3
Doesn't the e36 use an air injector shroud that surrounds the injector?
I do believe with the e36 (some years) they did change the injector type..realoem states from 1/1994 the new style injectors were used..Looks like it was a mid model changeover..
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tjts1 whats you opinion...
My 318iS (chip, tb mod, intake mod, intake pc-s, cai, richer af, no fuel pressure regulator tho). Engine will be stock internals. And only for Sunday/track use. What would be the best injectors performancewise for me ? I dont care about fuel consumption, and white/black smoke or nasty smells. :D Ah also, im probably going on MegaSquirt for the summer.
Bosch 0280155702 #22 or Bosch 0280150947 #24.5 or something else ?
I can put better fuel pump and regulator if you think thatll help anything. :P
Thanks alot in advance!
Ken
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I got mine from "Free flow injectors"/ Jeff lillegard
775 843 8623 For 100$ /4
Or do a search on Bay for the ppart #
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Sorry to bump this thread, but it seems like an appropriate place to ask this question:
on late e36s with the air shrouded injectors, can we use earlier style injectors and just plug up the air hoses or will that wreak havoc with the ecu?
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Just finished my head exchange/ head gasket/ timing chain/ cooling mess deletion and Mustang injector instal. The car cranks but so far no start. I've cranked it over a few times probably less than 1 minute in 4 or 5 tries, I pulled a plug and could not smell or see fuel. How long should I crank? Does the fuel pump only run if the ignition is cycled through start first? I thought I might try to get the pump to run for awhile before trying again. I just can't bring myself to crank away for a long time....
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Does the tach bounce on crank? If not, the crank sensor is not working or you bumped the connection. Maybe do a quick fuel flow check at the starter rubber hose connection.
I did about the same things that you have swapped and it fired right off. I think the new injectors help it run really well. Esp for the 100shipped from the E bay guy.
I was messing with an 84 318 today, and pulled the temp sensor off and it quit. Most of the stuff has to be hooked up and working, for these cars to run.IMHO.
I dont know anything about the E 36, if it is different than the E30. Sorry.
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I had an extra set of injectors from a 1992 E36 318iS that were in good condition. It turns out that they are also 4-pintle injectors made by Lucas. They have the following Lucas number on them: D3761FA. The BMW part number is 136 4 1739 242
Anybody know how these compare to the Bosch 155-710 injectors as far as cc flow and atomization?
I have the same Lucas D3761FA, 4 pintle injectors on my E36 M42. :)
They have the following specs:
Part Number: D3761FA
cc/min: 234
lb/hr: 22
Rating @ (Bar): 3
Ohm: 16.6
Connector: EV1
.
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Does the tach bounce on crank? If not, the crank sensor is not working or you bumped the connection. Maybe do a quick fuel flow check at the starter rubber hose connection.
I did about the same things that you have swapped and it fired right off. I think the new injectors help it run really well. Esp for the 100shipped from the E bay guy.
I was messing with an 84 318 today, and pulled the temp sensor off and it quit. Most of the stuff has to be hooked up and working, for these cars to run.IMHO.
I dont know anything about the E 36, if it is different than the E30. Sorry.
Tach is responsive. :confused:
I thought fuel flow check was next step too. Is the lower hose (leading into the fuel rail) the input side? That should trace back to the fuel filter, right?
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It wont matter which hose you check , flow is flow. The chrome line is the high pressure side. I think. Verify spark??
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how many lb/hr do the yellow ford 302 injectors flow?
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... flow is flow...
it is
Verify spark??
thats next...
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She's a runnin!
I think it was that wire dangling from the fuel rail. The one that had a conveniently corresponding socket on the wiring harness for the plug at the end. Maybe. Well, Ok. Probably.
Thanks fer the help kids!
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Some of the later E36 M42 injectors used a sort of air injection into the fuel injectors in an effort to reduce emissions:
http://www.motortraders.net.au/groups/group.asp?group=1&menu=88
This air injection is just stupid and prone to fail.
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I have a quick question regarding injectors:
Currently I'm cleaning my spares which I won't use for a while. After cleaning should I lubricate them internaly for storage? I don't think it's ok to stay for a long time with cleaning liquid inside them.
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My 318iS (chip, throttlebody mod, intake mod, intake pulse chambers, cold air intake, richer air-fuel mixture, no fuel pressure regulator tho, exhaust is without any cat). Engine will be stock internals. And only for Sunday/track use. What would be the best injectors performancewise for me ? I dont care about fuel consumption, and white/black smoke or nasty smells. :D Ah also, im probably going on MegaSquirt some day also.
Bosch 0280155702 #22 or Bosch 0280150947 #24.5 or something else ?
I can put better fuel pump and regulator if you think thatll help anything. :P
Opinions please. ˇˇ
Im soon getting to that phase and need to decide what injectors to use.
Thanks.
Ken
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After a previous post I realized this wasn't added.
Found 19# yellows here at five o motorsport (http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/bmw/?v=16384)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfynoxL2RZI
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280 155 715 fit and work well. @ 22# around 42psi. (blue)
Common 4 hole injector. My source is back inhere somehwere. 80$ for 4 nice ones.
MM
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how many lb/hr do the yellow ford 302 injectors flow?
These should be 19# injectors. Depending on model year they'll either have EV1 or EV6 design. I think ford kept using the 302 in the explorer late into the 90s.
After a previous post I realized this wasn't added.
Found 19# yellows here at five o motorsport (http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/bmw/?v=16384)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfynoxL2RZI
These things are dime a dozen in the junkyards. Seriously, every V8 Ford from the late 90s has these. Buy them used at the JY and have them cleaned or clean them yourself if you really care.
http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=82
280 155 715 fit and work well. @ 22# around 42psi. (blue)
Common 4 hole injector. My source is back inhere somehwere. 80$ for 4 nice ones.
MM
These are #24 injectors from a 24 valve Ford taurus from the late 90s.
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is there anyway to check whether its 1pintle or 4 on the witchhunter site or the table site ?
i've found injectors that are 0 280 150 943
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150943.jpg)
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Why would you want to change injectors for 5+cc's? I just had 2 sets of stock injectors tested and cleaned. Both sets ran 204cc's. Go have your inj's cleaned!
Mine are for sale. PM me if interested.
~Ralph
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what is the part number for volvo injectors?
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I just bought a set of injectors on ebay, pictured below.
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155700.jpg)
The stockers are these. So there's a small increase in fuel flow with the "new" ones (6.25% more). tjts1, you said you were running the 155 712's? Those look to be LOW impedance units (2.1 Ohm)...is that right?
(http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150714.jpg)
I will be interested to see if this cleans up my idle & evens out my power band like so many others have reported. That sure would be nice!
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The new injectors are 4 hole and newer. The idle can improve along with fuel use. The DME seems to adjust to the flow rate just fine.
I use the 280 155, 715. for a lot of the Bosch style cars,BMW, Volvo, Vette, Ford crap etc.
HTH, MM
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OK, is there a final, DEFINITIVE answer about needing to modify anything to fit 155 injectors?
It seems that, from posts here, that washers & filing are not needed...they fit fine with everything stock. Is this true? The drawing comparing dimensions indicates that the EV6 & EV1 units indicates that the EV6 ones are ~3mm shorter. Has anyone checked to see if the bottom of the injectors are fully engaged in the lower manifold when installed?
If they ARE too short, the only proper course of action would seem to be filing ~3mm off of the rail mounting points (easy to undo with washers at least).
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Usually, you have to remove the old injectors , one by one as they are stuck in pretty hard, the seals are beat, etc.
The 715s are a little shorter. Placing all 4 on the rail, locking the retainers, ATF on the new seals, slide the ass. in to the intake. The seals fit in the injector cylinder a little higher than the orig. but the seals are not slammed against the bottom. I have not had any issues or do overs. WFM. <
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I have done it and you do not need any washers or filing, they sit and worked fine for me without any other modifications.
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do you have a wide band 02 sensor? or is it just the stock on?
What a wide band O2 sensor?
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A wide-band O2 sensor lets you accurately read the AFR. Our cars (and almost all others) use a narrow-band O2 sensor. Those are only accurate at the stoichiometric AFR, putting out 0.45V at 14.7 AFR for gasoline. When you are rich or lean, they cannot accurately tell you by how much, only that you are either rich or lean.
I (and many others) are running the LC-1 WBO2 controller from Innovate Motorsports. It has wo programmable outputs, one which is typically used to simulate NBO2 output & feed the ECU. The other can be used for tuning & such.
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How much $?$?
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I think itīs about time to splurge a little on the car...once again :D
Iīm looking at these two. I'm curious as to what the difference is, besides the price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8-BOSCH-19LB-19-LB-MPI-FUEL-INJECTORS-DESIGN-III-FORD-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4aa096211cQQitemZ320521773340QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fuel-Injectors-19lb-19-lb-Ford-Mustang-TPI-5-0L4-6L-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414f1dfc86QQitemZ280500239494QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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I'm sorry....what are you splurging on? Those flow exactly what the stock inj's do. I had my 714's sent out and tested because I wanted to see what they actually flowed instead of "internet myth." Well the internet says 192cc's and my test results showed 204cc's. Wow...automatic upgrade of 6.25% flow I guess and I didn't even have to buy a different set advertised at a higher rate. Now you could buy those and then have them flowed and find out that they flow 6.25% more and are actually 216.75cc's. Who knows?
Both sets you're looking at are "re-manufactured" which means they have been cleaned. :)
Have your own cleaned for $16+/ea. at a reputable facility or DIY.
My .02
Cheers,
~Ralph
Remanufacture
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Remanufacture may refer to:
* Remanufacturing, the process of reconditioning products to sound working condition.
Here is a shortened excerpt from :
http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/techarticles/JF-Tech/BMW_E30_3_Series_fuel_injector_cleaning.htm
Begin Quote: "With the injectors out, you might see a build-up of crud on the tips. This is usually a mixture of carbon deposits, fuel additives and gas. Use a rag to wipe off as much as you can. Now, get a can of brake cleaner and spray the outside of the injectors and the tips. Use a soft brush to remove any grime on the tips. Now spray a bit of brake cleaner down the inside of each injector and blow them out with some compressed air. You may be surprised at what comes out of there. Each fuel injector has a small filter that collects any debris or crud in the fuel system. Spraying the brake cleaner in there will dissolve any deposits in there.
A good way to clean the inside is to spray cleaner in there, then hit it with compressed air. Keep doing this until the brake cleaner coming out is clear. This is an indication that they are clean. CAUTION: be sure to use goggles when you do this, as the compressed air will spray the cleaner everywhere. You don’t want this stuff to get into your eyes.
Once you have all the injectors clean, get some new fuel injector seals and place them on each end of each injector (Pelican Parts carries these seals for $0.61 each.) Now to re-install them, put a little engine oil on the outside of the seals and press them back into the fuel rail. The engine oil will help you push them into the fuel rail as well as help seal them. Now re-install the retaining clips the secure the injectors into the fuel rail.
Now, go back to the car and plug each injector port with a small piece of paper towel. Now take some brake cleaner and a small brush and clean the area around the injector ports. This will clean the area and prevent any loose dirt or debris from entering the injector ports. Take the paper towels out and look inside each port to make sure there is no dirt in there. If there is, use a small vacuum to suck it out.
Coat each lower injector seal with a small bit of engine oil and position the fuel rail/ fuel injectors back in place in the intake manifold. Now, using equal pressure on both ends of the fuel rail, push down until each injector seats in the manifold." End Quote.
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OK, is there a final, DEFINITIVE answer about needing to modify anything to fit 155 injectors?
It seems that, from posts here, that washers & filing are not needed...they fit fine with everything stock. Is this true? The drawing comparing dimensions indicates that the EV6 & EV1 units indicates that the EV6 ones are ~3mm shorter. Has anyone checked to see if the bottom of the injectors are fully engaged in the lower manifold when installed?
If they ARE too short, the only proper course of action would seem to be filing ~3mm off of the rail mounting points (easy to undo with washers at least).
You don't need to modify anything to fit the EV6 injectors. They pop right in without washers or filling anything in. I put washers in mine originally because I thought they were loose the first time around. Turns out I just lost the retaining clips that hold the injector to the fuel rail. I was wrong. I've installed these on 2 more M42 since without washers or any other modifications. None of them have ever leaked. EV6 injectors were designed to fit in cars designed for EV1 injectors from the very beginning. Volvo started using these in 1997 and 1998 across the model range without any modification. Same with ford, Mercedes and a few other manufacturers.
tjts1, you said you were running the 155 712's? Those look to be LOW impedance units (2.1 Ohm)...is that right?
No, the information on that site is wrong. I tested them myself with a multimeter. They are high impedance, 14.xx ohm. I don't think any of the bosch EV6 injectors are low impedance.
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I purchased a set of Bosch 0 280 155 700 on eBay a couple weeks ago, and I sent them off to get flow tested. They were all flowing within 2% of each other, and had clean spray patterns.
Yesterday I did my fuel system overhaul (pump, filter, FPR, injectors...need to drop the fuel tank & do the hoses still). The 155 injectors go in without any problems. They are a little shorter than the stock ones, which has been mentioned, but the O-rings are fully seated in the lower manifold. The idle is noticeably smoother with these, and it runs a little better over all (improved mileage too). I think that the old injectors were just crapping out (probably the pump, too). Who knows what was going on with the injector for cylinder 1!
I did have a few minutes of excitement when I pulled the fuel rail with the old injectors. The injector for cylinder 1 was missing its pintle cap...and it just happened that the intake valves for cylinder 1 were fully open (this car is cursed, I swear). I tried to get some little grabbers in through a spark plug hole, figuring the cap broke off during removal, but they weren't grabbing anything. I carefully turned the motor over with a wrench and there was no interference. It runs fine...so hopefully the cap just sort of burned up & went out. It was late and I had NO intention of pulling the head.
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I purchased a set of Bosch 0 280 155 700 on eBay a couple weeks ago, and I sent them off to get flow tested. They were all flowing within 2% of each other, and had clean spray patterns.
Yesterday I did my fuel system overhaul (pump, filter, FPR, injectors...need to drop the fuel tank & do the hoses still). The 155 injectors go in without any problems. They are a little shorter than the stock ones, which has been mentioned, but the O-rings are fully seated in the lower manifold. The idle is noticeably smoother with these, and it runs a little better over all (improved mileage too). I think that the old injectors were just crapping out (probably the pump, too). Who knows what was going on with the injector for cylinder 1!
I did have a few minutes of excitement when I pulled the fuel rail with the old injectors. The injector for cylinder 1 was missing its pintle cap...and it just happened that the intake valves for cylinder 1 were fully open (this car is cursed, I swear). I tried to get some little grabbers in through a spark plug hole, figuring the cap broke off during removal, but they weren't grabbing anything. I carefully turned the motor over with a wrench and there was no interference. It runs fine...so hopefully the cap just sort of burned up & went out. It was late and I had NO intention of pulling the head.
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The idle is noticeably smoother with these, and it runs a little better over all (improved mileage too). I think that the old injectors were just crapping out (probably the pump, too). Who knows what was going on with the injector for cylinder 1!
Thats exactly my experience too. The ford injectors are a hell of a lot cheaper at the JY (read 5 finger discount) than buying new bmw specific injectors to replace old worn out ones.
I should add that my car passed California smog test (15mph/25mph) twice with the 0280 155 712 injectors so going slightly bigger isn't going to negatively impact emissions results.
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Interesting thread, but I'd like an opinion on the short of flow rate I should use.
I have a 91, 318i, and its fuel economy's been a bit shirty for the engine's size, so I am in the process of the "mess under the intake" And my lower intake manifold was of course gummy, same with the injectors.
Since I am in this deep, the concept of swapping the injectors to the 4 pintle variety seems attractive. But I do not know if I should change flow rate.
Unmodified engine, probably won't do anything to it, if I do it would probably just be a chip. Would you bother w/ swapping injectors? Will I realize any benefits going to the 4 hole variety in a factory flow rate?
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are we EV1 or EV6 connector? or will either work.
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Will I realize any benefits going to the 4 hole variety in a factory flow rate?
YES dammit. we drive a high compression 4 cylinder, what do you think.
my question is, did any come out in our factory flow rate?
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http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155700.jpg
You are so in luck today. Here is a post you might have missed:
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11654
~Ralph
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YES dammit. we drive a high compression 4 cylinder, what do you think.
my question is, did any come out in our factory flow rate?
+- 5% flow rate wouldn't matter IIRC. Even 10% is likely within the design spec for these old FI systems. It's not DI.
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In closed loop where the O2 sensor is keeping the AFR at 14.7 dead, you won't burn any more fuel than the stock injectors. I was running 22# injectors in place of the stock 19# and still had improved FE. It only adds extra fuel when the ECU goes into open loop (aka flooring it, high load) where your AFR will enrich. These cars already run way too lean at high load, high RPM so installing 10% or 20% larger injectors simply corrects that issue. A chip, no matter how its tuned, won't resolve the lean condition under high load. At most it can advance timing a little further to take advantage of high octane fuel. The idea setup is chip, large forward facing setup and 22# injectors. A few people are using 24# injectors but I don't have any first hand experience with that.
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Any one here pass CA smog with 24# injectors installed?
TIA
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mirror: http://www.e38.org/e32/efi_injectorservparts.pdf
this pdf from bosch might be useful as its straight from the source
has not only #'s but dates (to the month) of what car came with what injector
problem is its the uk? version. the #'s and dates shouldn't differ much, if any but
theres nothing on mustangs and other v8 fords, under that name at least.
someone help dug up the north american version of this
you'll still have to look up flow rates, impedance, etc.
but i hope this takes some of the guess work out of the sourcing a given injector.
simply print out a massive list for your trips to the junk yard :)
or have someone with a really expensive printer make a single page for you.
if the printer is good enough you'll be able to read font much smaller than this
find one for denso, lucas, etc and we're set
(http://xs.to/image-A772_4BF8D30F.jpg)
another flow rate site (scroll down).. and again nothing is conclusive. sometimes its by the book, sometimes they test them, :confused: so #s vary a bit.
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/Fuel_Injector_Flow_Rates.html
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I've read this thread a few times through and I think this is the proper injector:
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/?itemid=74
The first listing, the 710. I've also seen some people using the 700, but the most definitive option seems to be the 710. The question I haven't tripped over the answer to is whether the same injector part # such as 0280155710 can have different # like 19#, 22#, etc. Many of the posts discuss what # will work with an m42 but I couldn't conclude if a single part number will have one #value.
I feel like I missed something obvious so feel free to duh me.
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In closed loop where the O2 sensor is keeping the AFR at 14.7 dead, you won't burn any more fuel than the stock injectors. I was running 22# injectors in place of the stock 19# and still had improved FE. It only adds extra fuel when the ECU goes into open loop (aka flooring it, high load) where your AFR will enrich. These cars already run way too lean at high load, high RPM so installing 10% or 20% larger injectors simply corrects that issue. A chip, no matter how its tuned, won't resolve the lean condition under high load. At most it can advance timing a little further to take advantage of high octane fuel. The idea setup is chip, large forward facing setup and 22# injectors. A few people are using 24# injectors but I don't have any first hand experience with that.
Just for what it's worth, I had a wideband on my car before and after installing the Mustang injectors. Before, the car was basically at 14.5 no matter what the conditions were. After the injectors, that went down to more like 13.6 at WOT and 14.5ish at a cruise. So it did have the rather desirable trait of running a little richer at full throttle.
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How long are this Bosch 0280155715 injectors? My e36 has about 73mm total lenght of injector and about 67mm o-ring to oring. Do the 0280155715 pass my car like bolt on.
I think they can be good with my Dbilas itb and grinded intake-cam setup.
I got now 19.5lb injectors in my car and afr is lean on load and wide open, afr 14.5-15.5
Only at idle afr is around 13.4:mad:
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I just bought this injectors but 4 pieces.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.m748&item=280425191717&viewitem=&_trkparms=clkid%3D6875855580145246766
Hope they work with my car:cool:
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Just finished my injector swap, wow that was so worth it!
Ill be giving a pretty detailed write up in the next couple days!
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.m748&item=280425191717&viewitem=&_trkparms=clkid%3D6875855580145246766
Those seem to be rated 25% higher than stockers. I'm not up on fuel theory, but that may be a bit richer than you were hoping for.
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Ok I HAD A HUGE PROBLEM YESTERDAY WITH MY 155 INJECTORS!! WARNING GUYS!
I was at school after driving my car for around a day with my new injectors in. I turn the car on, and immediately smell MAJOR gas. So i shut off the car and have a puddle of fuel under it. The 155 injectors i had (280155700) did not have the slot for the retaining clip to slide into on the fuel rail. Since the injector was just being barely held the clip, the clip failed under the high fuel pressure and the injector came loose and fuel sprayed out. I got new injectors that were a 150 pn with the slot in to hold the clip in. I believe driving without the slots on the injectors is VERY risky because the clips on our fuel rails were NOT meant to clamp that style of injector.
People with 155 injectors beware! I will explain this better with pics soon.
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interested in hearing more^
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http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/?itemid=74
Note the new bosch number Fuel Injector: Bosch 0280156013
Yes they are RED now; these are the same as the yellows i bought few months ago and posted here.
About to swap them into our 318i DD.
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Interesting thread, but I'd like an opinion on the short of flow rate I should use.
I have a 91, 318i, and its fuel economy's been a bit shirty for the engine's size, so I am in the process of the "mess under the intake" And my lower intake manifold was of course gummy, same with the injectors.
Since I am in this deep, the concept of swapping the injectors to the 4 pintle variety seems attractive. But I do not know if I should change flow rate.
Unmodified engine, probably won't do anything to it, if I do it would probably just be a chip. Would you bother w/ swapping injectors? Will I realize any benefits going to the 4 hole variety in a factory flow rate?
I also have a 318i which I'm using for daily driving duties. Looking to get the best MPG out of it. Installed a COP kit, AFE stock air filter, and a set of the 0280155710 injectors from a 4.6L crown victoria (according to the ebay seller). I'm not certain what the flow rate is since I guess it can vary, but they seem to work well in my setup. I did have some issues sealing them up at the manifold/rail, but eventually after a few times I was able to get them to seat properly. I just filled up my tank for the first time, so I'll see what kind of MPG I'm getting this week. I don't have anything to really compare to because I just got the car running a few weeks ago and installed these injectors then.
I do have 4 of the 0280155710 injectors available if anyone would like to make an offer on them. They are supposed to have 68k miles on them, and I've had no problems with the ones I installed. PM me if interested :)
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Left to right: a 155 injector that will work because of the slots for the clip, 155 that WILL NOT fit because it has no clip slot (this was where my problem occurred), stock injector, and a 150 injector with the slots (currently using these)
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae356/balleristic31/IMG00039-20110413-0730.jpg)
You can see in this pic how the clip failed
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae356/balleristic31/IMG00057-20110413-1622.jpg)
Here is how the clip should sit on the injectors which will hold it securely in the rail:
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae356/balleristic31/IMG00051-20110413-1602.jpg)
This is how the injectors with no slots hold it, notice the clip is NOT square and is buldging:
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae356/balleristic31/IMG00049-20110413-1602.jpg)
That is where my whole problem was. I may have bought the wrong injectors but the P/N was scratched out on them (sketchy!!) and i didnt know they needed that slot to work right. Jst FYI for everyone!
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Those seem to be rated 25% higher than stockers. I'm not up on fuel theory, but that may be a bit richer than you were hoping for.
They are good, but my car need dyno tuning now.
There is videos at my car with this 255cc injectors, itb, eisenmann, intake cam, Bmc carbon cai etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUqJ73Vul-U
Little bit black smoke at 5000rpm. :D
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(http://home.comcast.net//~racery/318/injectors.JPG)
these are the later 318 m42 injectors. They flow 235cc/min @ 53 psi
but by the flow pattern, they are 4- pintle.
There's a really 'easy' way to tell if your injectors are too small-
scope the injector pulse signal. As long as you're not over about 85%
duty cycle, your injector's big enough for your motor.
If you go over that, or go to that and sit there while the engine starts to
lean out, then a bigger injector's indicated.
'easy' he says.
t
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is it worth the trouble going with mustang injector?
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Yes, changed the car completely.
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http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/?itemid=74
Note the new bosch number Fuel Injector: Bosch 0280156013
Yes they are RED now; these are the same as the yellows i bought few months ago and posted here.
About to swap them into our 318i DD.
so those will plug and play in the m42 engine without any modification???
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so is this one a good one to use? so many part numbers all over this thread. is this a 4 pintle and direct fit?
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/?itemid=74
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so is this one a good one to use? so many part numbers all over this thread. is this a 4 pintle and direct fit?
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/?itemid=74
did some research last night and these are the correct injectors.
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
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I cannot for the life of me figure out what part number is really the one that works with no modification, no missing clips, no washers, etc.
Can someone just go here and link to the correct page with the fuel injector that will work with a stock or slightly modded M42.
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com (cheapest rebuilt injectors around).
-Scott
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what about the other ones linked above from fivemotorsport.com? should the ones you just listed be a direct fit? and work perfect.
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what about the other ones linked above from fivemotorsport.com? should the ones you just listed be a direct fit? and work perfect.
The fivemotorsport.com won't fit because is too long,the one i posted is a direct fit and is a 4-pintle.
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Just ran my first 200 miles on the 318i. Setup is a stock M42 with mustang 4 pintle injectors, COP kit, and stock airbox with AFE filter. 201 miles on 6.8 gallons is 29.55MPG....that was mixed driving, probably 75 miles of it on the highway. I'm very pleased with that :)
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Just ran my first 200 miles on the 318i. Setup is a stock M42 with mustang 4 pintle injectors, COP kit, and stock airbox with AFE filter. 201 miles on 6.8 gallons is 29.55MPG....that was mixed driving, probably 75 miles of it on the highway. I'm very pleased with that :)
i just bought these
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
can't wait to put them on with my chipped ecu and k&N filter. shit is already preppy as is and a gas guzzler,only get 300miles on full tank.
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What's the feeedback? Have you installed them yet? Do those injectors from Motorman fit and work correctly. Any leaks?
-Scott
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i just bought these
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
can't wait to put them on with my chipped ecu and k&N filter. shit is already preppy as is and a gas guzzler,only get 300miles on full tank.
Have you installed them yet? Any issues.
-Scott
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Left to right: a 155 injector that will work because of the slots for the clip, 155 that WILL NOT fit because it has no clip slot (this was where my problem occurred), stock injector, and a 150 injector with the slots (currently using these)
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae356/balleristic31/IMG00039-20110413-0730.jpg)
No one else has had this problem it seems, perhaps you failed to properly install that injector?
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No one else has had this problem it seems, perhaps you failed to properly install that injector?
the two skinny injector to the left will not work at all.
BOSCH 0280150556 4Port Injector
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2zi9ced.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/f1ipsw.jpg)
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
plug and play baby
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You are positive that those are plug and play? I want to cover my basis before spending $100 on new injectors that wouldn't fit. I have been reading on this thread that the Bosch 0280155700 was plug and play then recently, within the last month, that they wont fit the clips and handle the pressure.
So what you are saying is Bosch 0280150556 is the way to go, if so thanks for the heads up.
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You are positive that those are plug and play? I want to cover my basis before spending $100 on new injectors that wouldn't fit. I have been reading on this thread that the Bosch 0280155700 was plug and play then recently, within the last month, that they wont fit the clips and handle the pressure.
So what you are saying is Bosch 0280150556 is the way to go, if so thanks for the heads up.
yes those are the correct injectors,you can ask the people on rev-limited website.
I too was about to get Bosch 0280155700 but I ended up doing some major research and found out Bosch 0280150556 is the correct injectors to use.
The injectors I bought are recondition for 25 each,you can get new injectors but is 30 each from that same website posted earlier.
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yes those are the correct injects,you can ask the people on rev-limited website.
Thanks bro, I'll take your word for it. Cannot wait to get rid of my old ticking ones. Also looking forward to seeing if their is any difference in feel. I have read that the mileage may improve slightly but that it idles more smoothly. Worth $100 IMO.
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Thanks bro, I'll take your word for it. Cannot wait to get rid of my old ticking ones. Also looking forward to seeing if their is any difference in feel. I have read that the mileage may improve slightly but that it idles more smoothly. Worth $100 IMO.
if I was you ask the people on rev-limited so you can be more confidence on buying lol.
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http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=79828&highlight=mustang+injectors
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=72156&highlight=mustang+injectors
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=205497
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They have New ones on sale for $27.99, another three bucks for brand new ones... Might just have to buy those. :)
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/7638068/8491680.htm
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wanted to report back on this.
i went ahead and purchased the injectors from the link that stillmatick posted.
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
Direct drop in. I am running them right now and they are working flawlessly. No idle problems, and a smooth increase in torque has been noticed. Idle is smoothed out as well.
I also did a coil on plug conversion in the same as well.
so confirming that BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector
is a direct perfect fit.
it is the one shown in the picture above in post #254 with the blue nozzle looking tip.
hope this helps those of you, who were like me, wondering which one of the million numbers to chose from.
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Originally Posted by BBDirtbiking
Cannot wait to get rid of my old ticking ones. Also looking forward to seeing if their is any difference in feel. I have read that the mileage may improve slightly but that it idles more smoothly. Worth $100 IMO.
Idle will improve, and i will report back on mileage gains. As for the injectors not ticking haha.....umm these things tick way louder than my old stock ones do. But it does not bother me.
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Idle will improve, and i will report back on mileage gains. As for the injectors not ticking haha.....umm these things tick way louder than my old stock ones do. But it does not bother me.
Sounds good man looking forward to hearing more from you. As far as a tick goes.. I have a BAD injector, needs some cleaning most likely so it is LOUD, haha.
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Was just at the pick-n-pull and I passed on a full rail from a late-90s VR6 VW. They're fat 150 4-hole injectors, but I thought those were the shorter ones & don't fit our rails. The 155 long-body injectors are what I was looking for.
I have to head back (There's a trailer hitch I have my eye on, and a new e46 just hit the yard :)), I'll report on my findings.
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I'm really not understanding this whole thread:confused: Everyone is talking about putting in the "same" flow injectors and all of a sudden the torque, idle and ...... changes for the better? Maybe someone could elaborate?
Has anyone just thought that maybe the "new" inj's are just cleaner and flow like they are supposed to where as your "old" inj's are just not flowing up to par? How about putting in fresh stock inj's and see if you get the same reaction?
Who says that 4 pintle is better in the car than the stock? Did someone do a test as to the flow characteristics into the opening in the head where the manifold attaches and knows for a fact the the 4 pintle doesn't spray fuel all over the sides of the intake port vs getting into the cylinder? Atomization is one thing but so is angle:D Just food for thought.....
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150556.jpg
I had a stock set cleaned and they flowed 204cc's. I still have them packaged and unused. They say 556's are 210cc's... So my point is again.....If one puts in a "CLEAN" set of stock inj's what's to say that the car wont' run fantastically better with MPG, and seat of the pants dyno?
204/10.5= 19.4lb inj's
Cheers,
~Ralph
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+1, maintenance is crucial to proper running. Fresh injectors would have to be measurably better than the originals in my car.
Given new o-rings and maybe a little hose deletion...how could the car NOT run better?
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Last year i had witchhunter do the cleaning /rebuild and flow tested them to 2% of each other and my recent upgrade to the mustang injector was a better and more noticeable increase. nothing on paper, but it is smoother and especially idle. Torque seems very constant now, but that is all butt dyno :-)
not much on flow design but if you look at the stock setup, it seems that the automized fuel could re-group together before even leaving the long nozzel of the injector. the pintle is deep withing the nozzel. On the mustang injector the pintels are right at the end.
In the same time i wondered the same thing as you. the new injector will stick into the head farther than the stock one, as seen in the pictures of length.
i have a 1993 e36 m42 and my old injectors were stock 4 pintles. I did not know that until after i swapped them in and looked closely.
was it worth it? i am not 100% sure. But i will test the claim on MPG's going up on this next tank of fuel. If no power increase, a better automized and better burning fuel consumption should lead to less fuel consumption in the end. and thats worth it to me.
I will report back on mpgs
here are the pictures to compare that i didn't get around to posting, from the install.
BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector3.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector2-1.jpg)
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What part number Mustang injectors did you use?
Thanks in advance...
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BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector
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early e30 m42 didn't come with 4pintle injectors but the 36 did. still mustang injector is better.
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Does anyone know if i can use these injectors?
Bosch 0280150953
They come from a VW Golf 3 VR6 2.9
Some put them in the Golf 2 GTI 1.8 8V Model.
I searched the web and found different informations.
From 196cc/min to 250cc/min @ 43.5 psi
15.9ohm
EV6 Body
Alex
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Bump! Please help. Want to delete the mess under the intake this weekend and change the injectors if they fit.
Alex
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From just going to page 2 or 3, the ev6 works. Just read throught the pages. I believe tjts did it. But please confirm.
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They look like the ones in bbarnumboy post above. The chrome style ones. Don't know if it is EV6. But i think they would fit.
I'll try it tomorrow. Hopefully my car will run again on saturday or sunday -.-
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Hey i just want to say that my car runs fine with the injectors from the VR6. I think the throttle response is much faster and it runs better at idle.
Alex
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Thanks for the post. I missed this one...but coincidentally, my favorite yard has a bunch of VWs, including a complete VR6 in a newish Passat. I might give them a try myself. I'll double-check the numbers and pull them if I get a match.
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wanted to report back on this.
i went ahead and purchased the injectors from the link that stillmatick posted.
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
Direct drop in. I am running them right now and they are working flawlessly. No idle problems, and a smooth increase in torque has been noticed. Idle is smoothed out as well.
I also did a coil on plug conversion in the same as well.
so confirming that BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector
is a direct perfect fit.
it is the one shown in the picture above in post #254 with the blue nozzle looking tip.
hope this helps those of you, who were like me, wondering which one of the million numbers to chose from.
nice to hear,also did you get rid of that spider hoses and bypass tb plate clooant?
I still wouldn't get the long skinny injectors looking kind because the clip doesn't go on well.
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Hey there....
the Bosch 0280150953 won't work if they come from a car before 1996.
They need 58.02psi to reach the 250cc.
My Injectors come from a car before 1996 so i have a huge loss of power. My car only runs like 190 Kph now. I will change back to stock injectors till i find some Mustang's in Germany.
Greetings
Alex
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volvo 0280155702 are almost a perfect upgrade. they are bosch gen/type 3 injectors with 4 pintles. they are almost identical in resistance and most importantly they have the slots for the fuel rail clips. works perfect in the two cars ive installed. better idle better gas milage, better power and smooth revving.
if you dont know what gen/type 3 injectors are here is a demonstration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oTirEZNRw8&feature=related
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(http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n440/PaperMATE9999/IMG_0126.jpg)
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Hi Guys,
I'm looking for injectors that would feed around 25 - 26 lbs /H at 43 psi for my Ethanol conversion.
Any suggestions?
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After buying four of the skinny, no-clip 0280155700 injectors and having three of the four leak around the o-rings, I bought four of the 0280150556 injectors from the motorman link above and have had no issues. I wasn't very comfortable with the way the -700s went in, so when they started to leak I wasn't totally surprised. The -556s seated much nicer in the lower intake and rail than the 700s and definitely feel like they're supposed to be there.
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Robin, I thought the 0 280 155 xxx injectors are all shorter. The 0 280 150 xxx's solved the problem because they're a tad longer.
I've seen some 156 for sale too, anyone know what these are for? There seems to be quite a bit of confusion out there about injectors.
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Has anybody run injectors with increased flow rate on a car without a catalytic converter, i.e. with no lambda probe? Presumably it just overfuels and would ideally be remapped.
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You could use an exhaust gas analyzer to test for CO & adjust the AFM accordingly. I'll bet you could tweak it pretty well.
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You could use an exhaust gas analyzer to test for CO & adjust the AFM accordingly.
I was under the impression that the external screw provided adjustment for idle only.
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I thought it was for idle and low throttle situations too? I'm not 100% on that, but even if it's only adjusted for idle I'll bet it contributes to part-throttle situations regardless.
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Installed 0280155710 injectors in my E30 today... I noticed two things which I am slightly worried about. First being that these injectors are noisy! You don't hear them so much when your in the car driving, but when you are sitting over the engine bay they are loud. One more thing, not sure if it is related at all, but there is this noise coming from the timing area that sounds like a couple marbles knocking around... I noticed these noise slightly when I had my old injectors in (one injector was bad and NOISY!), and after driving the car hard the noise had amplified... I drove the car several times later after this and there were no other noises that were of concern, which has me wondering what is up.
Do you think I need to increase the fuel pressure? Possibly restrict the return line slightly to do so, or what is the best way?
Hopefully I get a good mileage increase.
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I just installed rebuilt flow matched 700 injectors. It took me 7 hours including...1 hr lunch/parts run & 45 min to get the air out of the cooling lines. It turned out that the stock injectors already where 4 pintle BMW injectors. There does not seem to be any change in performance. The old injectors looked to be clean & in good shape after 184,000 miles.
I was looking for a little better performance & better gas milage....we will see.
1993 318is 5sp.
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I'm hopeful that I'll see some increase in mileage. Seems unlikely in my case, but the fuel gauge is so inaccurate it's impossible to tell until I run a few tanks through her.
I also noted that my injectors (4-hole but with the fat metal body - gen2??) were quite a bit clackier than the last ones. Maybe it was air in the system, time will tell.
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Here is another reference for injectors in a little different format.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
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Last year i had witchhunter do the cleaning /rebuild and flow tested them to 2% of each other and my recent upgrade to the mustang injector was a better and more noticeable increase. nothing on paper, but it is smoother and especially idle. Torque seems very constant now, but that is all butt dyno :-)
not much on flow design but if you look at the stock setup, it seems that the automized fuel could re-group together before even leaving the long nozzel of the injector. the pintle is deep withing the nozzel. On the mustang injector the pintels are right at the end.
In the same time i wondered the same thing as you. the new injector will stick into the head farther than the stock one, as seen in the pictures of length.
i have a 1993 e36 m42 and my old injectors were stock 4 pintles. I did not know that until after i swapped them in and looked closely.
was it worth it? i am not 100% sure. But i will test the claim on MPG's going up on this next tank of fuel. If no power increase, a better automized and better burning fuel consumption should lead to less fuel consumption in the end. and thats worth it to me.
I will report back on mpgs
here are the pictures to compare that i didn't get around to posting, from the install.
BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector3.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector2-1.jpg)
8000 miles and still running great. No problems. only complaint, they are alot noisier than the stock injectors. The M42 is such a smooth quiet running engine as for noise levels right at the head. This is cause of the nice hydraulic lifters...so you can hear the injectors quite loud.
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Any change in MPGs?
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I think it actually went down to be honest. really hard for me to tell. i think highway i average 26-28 and around town around 22-23 keep in mind i have an E36 with 210,000 miles. but the engine is perfect.
I have seen better gas mileage over the past few years, that is for sure.
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8000 miles and still running great. No problems. only complaint, they are alot noisier than the stock injectors. The M42 is such a smooth quiet running engine as for noise levels right at the head. This is cause of the nice hydraulic lifters...so you can hear the injectors quite loud.
same injectors here with 15,000 miles and still running without a problem.
i get 350miles on a full tank driving fast and nornal on highway/city,haven't try granny driving.
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this is upsetting, just read up on this to find out the slim yellow injectors won't hold up and I'm not chancing a fire (been there done that)
after talking to Rob at Motor man I'm not going with the BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector but with these instead: http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/7638068/9161686.htm (http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/7638068/9161686.htm). They are the same except for the body color and they are NEW.
Will report back when installed next week.
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Anyone who needs 24lb or greater should realize that there is a new design 4 from bosch. I picked up a set for my ITB'd, 1.9L build from this guy for $160 shipped. I will report back once I get back from my deployment and can acutally finish the build and drive it :)
http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=206
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Any feedback on these injectors? Do they fit corretly?
Anyone who needs 24lb or greater should realize that there is a new design 4 from bosch. I picked up a set for my ITB'd, 1.9L build from this guy for $160 shipped. I will report back once I get back from my deployment and can acutally finish the build and drive it :)
http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=206
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After reading this thread at length, I decided to buy the Bosch 0280156013 from http://www.fiveomotorsport.com.
Why?
1. They have the slots for the retaining clips
2. They are high impedance (14 ohm)
3. They flow 250cc at 3 bar (about 20% increase over stock 210(ish?)cc)
4. They are new
5. I have a 93 octane Mark D chip (7300 rev limiter)
6. I have a stock airbox with K&N filter, and a larger hose to behind the headlight
7. The ECU/DME and the O2 sensor should compensate for the increased flow, and manage AFRs.
I chose them over these:
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
I'll try to report back in a month or so on their effectiveness.
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I was curious about the 0280156013 as well, but wasn't sure if they'd flow too much. I'm interested to hear your results, especially regarding MPG.
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Since no one else I could find was running the 24#ers without forced induction or ITBs, I chickened out and changed my order. I got these instead:
http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm
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I have been running the 700 injectors since July 2011 with no problems. For a while I thought they were leaking. The leak came from non fuel injected hoses used on the fuel rail. I had gen2 BMW injectors on the car before the 700. The 700 run slightly smoother. They do fit on the manifold slightly looser than the stock. I was able to use the clips though.
The 700 injectors along with the Mark D 7100/91 chip turned out to be a good upgrade for the M42.
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Sorry... but How can anyone truly tell that the car is that much "smoother" with these injectors that were not meant for the fuel rail? They are the same flow rate as a clean set of stock 714's!! This 4 hole, 1 hole, multi hole thing is completely overrated on a stock motor:D
Statements throughout numerous threads have included FIRE, incorrect or loose fitment, leaking, etc....That makes me wanna run out and get a set right away...NOT.
FYI... there is no way that the clips fit properly because there is no slot for them to actually fit properly, hence the loose fitment.
Why don't we ask Barrie from Midnight Tuning what he thinks?:eek:
And running the 24#'s as well without changing the tune on a STOCK motor!
Just my .02 take it or leave it. I'm all for upgrades, when they are warranted and they work for the application as in "safety"
Just want everyone to be safe and enjoy their cars!!
Cheers,
~Ralph
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The 700 injectors on my engine are NOT lose at the end with the clip...they are not as tight as the originals at the other end (where they fit into the intake manifold). Anyway...I keep an eye on them & check them for leaking weekly.
If I had 4 pintle BMW injectors, I would not upgrade. The performance differences are very minor.
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I will be putting the 150-569 injectors in my car hopefully this weekend. :)
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@Warsteiner: What does this mean?
"Why don't we ask Barrie from Midnight Tuning what he thinks?
And running the 24#'s as well without changing the tune on a STOCK motor!"
TIA
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I have 19#,24#, and 660cc injector different sets. The 19 and 24# are full V8 sets out of Mustangs, and the 660cc are fresh bought flow tested and for an E30,Evo,Eclipse... I was sure that changing injectors without some sort of combination of the following: an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, 255 fuel pump, possibly an after market fuel rail, and a tune---->the injectors upgraded really don't do a thing. ?
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Troman:
Barrie tunes these cars. I'm curious what he thinks.
And I'll be tuning my stroker motor shortly after I install my slide throttles and Carbon fiber airbox from the S42 with the proper injectors that fit.:D
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Warsteiner - thanks for the clarification.
I installed the 150-556 (http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/catalog/item/4494564/4532416.htm) injectors yesterday.
Tip for the stupid --> don't reassemble everything without incrementally testing, or you will have about 1.5 hours worth of work disassembling, correcting, and reassembling your %^*(&^ upper intake.
After seeing fuel leaking from the top of two of the injectors, I took it all back apart, and re-seated the injectors in the rail. Before installing, I blew into the fuel rail with the exit pipe blocked to see if they seemed sealed. The clips and the electrical connections will help you make sure that they are vertical and seated correctly. Before putting the intake back on, I reconnected the battery, and turned the key (which I think starts the pump and fills the rail) - no leaks. Then I put the upper intake and throttle body on, and started the car - no leaks. Then I put the rest back together.
I drove it for about an hour last night, and to work this morning. It feels like it's ripping in 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd feel the same. Maybe more power in 4th. But you know...butt dyno/internet wishing is so unreliable. Who knows what AFRs are, etc. It really needs dyno analysis to tell what's going on. I honestly think it felt faster with stock injectors and a massive vacuum leak. :) I'll post and update after a few hundred miles, with some fuel consumption data.
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All this injector talk had got me concerned about my engine. Seing as i have a spare i looked at the injectors and low and behold i have both bosch 714 and Lucas d3761fa varients. Bosch are rated at 192cc and lucas at 234cc. Thats a significant difference of 21% or similar. By luck the larger ones i had fitted earlier.
Does anyone have a feel for how close the stock injectors (714's) are to their maximum flow in a stock configuration.
Do the lucas offer realistic headroom on a itb engine?
Also its curious that the difference is so marked on effectivly identical engines. one is 92 the other 94 bith e36 chassis. The lucas injectors was from a japan import engine however..
The lucas are on par with a 0280 150 786 out of interest for flow.
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I have these since two years now....
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/product-search/?p=0280156013
fitting is same as stock... no modification needed. Also the clips are same as stock...
No leak, no fitting problem.... i used my original clips and they clip on just like with the stock injectors.
Using the car for track days, also drag-race.
Have cop kit, ported head, CDA intake, high compression pistons, lightened connecting rods, lightened flywheel, m3 exhaust made by PROEX exhaust co., Still need to chip it on dyno...
Car works okay, but stock chip is best compared to any other i tried (tried about 6 different chip). This is why i will go next week to make chip-tuning on dyno...
Here is how it sound with stock chip... also it was with stock tires on front and slick on the back... was a little shiTi to handle ... but was good for practice...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype8l8CPZ3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKyOfJeGwyI
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I have the 700 injectors on my car for about a year now...still no problems.
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Today at junk yard I snapped few sets of injectors. I have few questions about one set that i got.
They are off 1997 era Lincoln Continental with 4.6L DOHC. Injectors have a shape of stock m42 units, made by Denso, they are light blue with the tip is different than stock mustang units.
See pictures, I removed the little tip cover to expose the rest.
Are these injectors somewhat special 24lb units?
I'm also not sure about their spray pattern.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3K_SOsodQNU/T68r9lb6III/AAAAAAAAAL4/poHplqdXMT4/s720/IMG_20120512_233242.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ko6vYYY4sos/T68s7meVhFI/AAAAAAAAAMA/z4zwj7oQnSY/s720/IMG_20120512_233751.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ANbNhJ3e7uM/T68tm2QiaxI/AAAAAAAAAMI/nwQcOE2KYqI/s912/IMG_20120512_234110.jpg)
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Iīve been running the skinny 700īs for almost a year and a half and except for a stuck injector on #1 cylinder, i havenīt had any problems.
How many people are running these? Any problems? should i be worried?
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Fuel consumption update...
I've had the BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injectors in for about 1,200 miles now, and am averaging 24.5 mpg.
I think flooring it into open loop just wastes gas. But it really does rip in 2nd and 3rd, so...fun happens.
I have a new O2 sensor to install. Maybe that will take the consumption down a little.
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With new O2 sensor, 15w-50 Mobil 1 synth, and BP 91 I averaged 30.5 mpg highway this weekend. Have been getting 25.5 around town.
Just fitted COP last night, and car is really responsive. Going back to Pentosynth 5w-40 or Mobile 1 0w-40 now that the pan leaks are pretty much fixed.
Injectors highly recommended.
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So after bein confused by this whole thread is there any consensus on a replacement injector for a stock m42? One that doesn't leak and seats correctly and flow the right amount.
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^^ In for the answer as well. I know I could start reading through 14 pages of people going back and forth, however, I'm just wondering if there is a specific kind that you guys recommend running on a stock m42?
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what the last two said ^^
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How about a sticky.. One post with the injector information.
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Last year i had witchhunter do the cleaning /rebuild and flow tested them to 2% of each other and my recent upgrade to the mustang injector was a better and more noticeable increase. nothing on paper, but it is smoother and especially idle. Torque seems very constant now, but that is all butt dyno :-)
not much on flow design but if you look at the stock setup, it seems that the automized fuel could re-group together before even leaving the long nozzel of the injector. the pintle is deep withing the nozzel. On the mustang injector the pintels are right at the end.
In the same time i wondered the same thing as you. the new injector will stick into the head farther than the stock one, as seen in the pictures of length.
i have a 1993 e36 m42 and my old injectors were stock 4 pintles. I did not know that until after i swapped them in and looked closely.
was it worth it? i am not 100% sure. But i will test the claim on MPG's going up on this next tank of fuel. If no power increase, a better automized and better burning fuel consumption should lead to less fuel consumption in the end. and thats worth it to me.
I will report back on mpgs
here are the pictures to compare that i didn't get around to posting, from the install.
BOSCH 0280150556 Multi-Port Injector
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector3.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/bbarnumboy/injector2-1.jpg)
8000 miles and still running great. No problems. only complaint, they are alot noisier than the stock injectors. The M42 is such a smooth quiet running engine as for noise levels right at the head. This is cause of the nice hydraulic lifters...so you can hear the injectors quite loud.
I have moved on to a supercharged setup with 42# injectors and i no longer need these practically brand new injectors. I installed these on November 29th 2011 as the post i made states, I put the car down in Feb of 2012 3 months after installing the injectors. I will sell them for 50$ if anyone wants them. Worked great.
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Hello,
I came across these which are advertised as a direct upgrade for the 91-94 318i/iS. (0 280 156 013)
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/product-search/?v=16383 (http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/product-search/?v=16383)
Any thoughts/experience?
They flow about 15% more over stock, which seems like a lot.
While looking around I also found this very detailed spreadsheet with Bosch injector data.
http://www.usrallyteam.com/content/products/injector/Bosch_Injector_data.xls (http://www.usrallyteam.com/content/products/injector/Bosch_Injector_data.xls)
Source
http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=2636.0 (http://adaptronic.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=2636.0)
I found an EV14 injector in the list (0 280 158 107) and the specs are very close to stock, but the resistance is 12 ohm as opposed to 15.3 ohm and the distance between o rings is 60.65 as opposed to 60.5 yet the overall length is the same @ 77.
Also found the Bosch Datasheet for it.
(0 280 158 107) - http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en-US/literature/en-US/Injection_Valve_EV_14_Datasheet_51_en_2775993867.pdf (http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en-US/literature/en-US/Injection_Valve_EV_14_Datasheet_51_en_2775993867.pdf)
Some questions for an expert:
1. Does the engine management accept a range of impedance values (12-16) and adjust based on the actual resistance values?
2. Did E30 M42s have different injectors than E36 M42s during the same time frame 91-94
3. Is the diameter standard for all Bosch injectors? Don't want fuel leaks.
4. Will EV14 work without having to upgrade engine management?
Thanks,
Bryon
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After reading this entire thread and some other forums, countless google searches, talk with a mustang specialist, and a call to Mark D.
I have come to the conclusion It's best to go with the Bosch 0280150556 if you feel the need for a 4 pintle injector OR the Bosch 0280150561 "Pink Top" if you have significant motor work and require more fuel (stroker or ITB's). The other option is to play it safe and stick with a fresh set of 0280150714's.
I ordered a set of reconditioned 556's, because I feel my current injectors are totally spent and I would like to try something a little more modern. IMO it's the equivalent of installing Bosch Platinum plugs.
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How could either of those injectors make the car run better. Those are pretty much stock inj's.
Some people think if you use a "different, better, more cc inj", then the car will run better. Really? Hmmmm....
I had the so called "714's/192cc stock inj's" cleaned and flowed. Guess what? 204cc's!
So....the 210cc or 212cc inj's aren't really any bigger. The stock motor makes 134HP if we're lucky, and that's on a fresh motor. Now, trying to give it more fuel on a tired motor?
The big question is.......will the car run better, smoother, and more efficiently by adding BIGGER inj's?
Maybe Mark and Barrie can chime in but....They probably tune their chips with stock inj's and there is still room to maybe add a mild street cam without altering the timing or fuel maps. Is that optimal and squeezing every last HP and TQ out of the motor? No of course not.
Can it be done, sure. But the chips are optimized for stock inj's:-)
Those inj's are definitely nowhere near enough for a stroker motor. The engine will be way too lean and burn out the inj's for running at 100%. There is always a cushion built in when sizing inj's but not a 70+ HP gain.
My suggestion is to get some stock inj's, have them cleaned and flowed, and call it a day. The reason for the media blasting is to make them look clean with fresh paint. That's it.... The way they look has no bearing on how they perform.
Why don't you have yours tested? Before and after the cleaning, that's what all the places do. They'll give you a chart, and if you have a bad inj it will show when they test them. That's the only way to really know what your inj's are doing.
Most places charge between $14-$20 per inj plus postage. 2 places that come to mind are Marren and Cruzin Performance. There are many others as well.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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I heard that the stock injectors are good for 210hp. I believe the MM m42 built motors use stock injectors with 205hp
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I promise you that MM is not using a stock inj. Ask bmwman91......
The only way that you could possibly see a 70HP increase on stock inj's is if you ran 5 bar on your fuel pressure. MM never mentions any change to the stock FPR or adding an adjustable FPR.
Our stock inj's could possibly handle about 165HP at the crank on stock pressure. This is why when you add a chip and possible cam you can still get away without changing the inj's. However a new tune is always recommended.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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How could either of those injectors make the car run better. Those are pretty much stock inj's.
Some people think if you use a "different, better, more cc inj", then the car will run better. Really? Hmmmm....
I had the so called "714's/192cc stock inj's" cleaned and flowed. Guess what? 204cc's!
So....the 210cc or 212cc inj's aren't really any bigger. The stock motor makes 134HP if we're lucky, and that's on a fresh motor. Now, trying to give it more fuel on a tired motor?
The big question is.......will the car run better, smoother, and more efficiently by adding BIGGER inj's?
Maybe Mark and Barrie can chime in but....They probably tune their chips with stock inj's and there is still room to maybe add a mild street cam without altering the timing or fuel maps. Is that optimal and squeezing every last HP and TQ out of the motor? No of course not.
Can it be done, sure. But the chips are optimized for stock inj's:-)
Those inj's are definitely nowhere near enough for a stroker motor. The engine will be way too lean and burn out the inj's for running at 100%. There is always a cushion built in when sizing inj's but not a 70+ HP gain.
My suggestion is to get some stock inj's, have them cleaned and flowed, and call it a day. The reason for the media blasting is to make them look clean with fresh paint. That's it.... The way they look has no bearing on how they perform.
Why don't you have yours tested? Before and after the cleaning, that's what all the places do. They'll give you a chart, and if you have a bad inj it will show when they test them. That's the only way to really know what your inj's are doing.
Most places charge between $14-$20 per inj plus postage. 2 places that come to mind are Marren and Cruzin Performance. There are many others as well.
Cheers,
~Ralph
Ralph,
Don't get too worked up here. The "for a stroker" comment was just an example, maybe performance cam and MAF would have been better one?
As for the media blasting? It was NOT done to improve the appearance of my injectors. My previous mechanic couldn't safely remove the injectors and he went ahead and blasted/cleaned the intake manifold with them still attached. Maybe why I no longer take my car there, he also bolted the shifter carrier to the transmission, this eventually led to one of the tabs breaking off on my transmission and one too many miss-shifts.
Anyways, I think some improvement can come from the 4 pintle injectors, I will personally know soon enough. I don't want to remove the current injectors to send them out, that could take weeks! I would rather swap parts and get back on the road, even if it costs me a $100.
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Nah I never get worked up 8) I just get excited about this stuff.
Good thing you 86'd that mechanic...lol
I guess I could find the extra set of 714's that I have and post them up to start a "spare for reconditioning set" so that everyone can share. This way no one would go without a spare set. It's kinda like paying it forward. You have the previous owner's set sent to get reconditioned, then sent to you. You then swap out that set for your originals and they are now reading to be sent out for the next person.
It might work.......
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Check out this monster Excel file with basically every Bosch injector and all sorts of data.
Basically, for a proper fit you want a model with a ~60.5mm distance between the O-rings. Note that some do NOT have the slits for the safety clips that hold them into the rail, such as the 24# ones like 0280155931.
Over the years I tried all sorts of funny stuff with different injectors. You won't beat the stock ones on a mostly-stock engine. The ONLY reason to need higher flow ones is if you bore and stroke the engine. Head work and cams alone won't require it, although you would need to get onto a dyno anyway so you could stick some 21# ones in there just for a little head-room in terms of duty cycle.
In speaking with Metric Mechanic about my 2.1L M42, they said that you can run stock injectors but that it is not advised to rev it over 6000RPM since it will run a tiny bit lean and max out the duty cycle. If I remember correctly, they said that the stockers are good for ~165bHP. The ones that I have in there now are 24# Bosch 0280150461 injectors. Same body as the stockers, but higher flow and they use the 4-hole outlet instead of a pintle. Of course, a chip came with them and the engine. Warsteiner has advised me to get on a dyno anyway to really get the last few ponies out, and I'll do that eventually.
For reference, I got the 461's from Turner motorsport. My order had been for 0280150914 "blue top" 24# injectors, but Turner stopped carrying those since they are out of production and the 461's are the same flow rate with the newer 4-hole design. Looks like they still need to update their website lol. I was surprised/concerned when I received the 461's expecting 914's until I called them and they explained!
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Yeah I was going to use the 155 715's then they got recalled so I went with the 150 947's which are actually the Ford Motorsport ones. Similar flow rates 256cc's vs 260cc's.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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So, as to not bring up a debate, is the general consensus that a good stock replacement for injectors the 0280150556 ? As they have the same fitment and flow? 22 pages of reading this took a bit of time, lol. I want to make sure I'm about to pay for what's needed in my car (1991 318is prod. 9/90)
Also, what/where is a recommended place to purchase as I've seen a few links but they all seem to be broken (except for the ones that end up getting debunked as too much, wrong size, retarded, etc.)
Thank in advance - need to go ahead and get some.
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So, as to not bring up a debate, is the general consensus that a good stock replacement for injectors the 0280150556 ?
There's no general consensus and it depends on your power.
If you live near a Pick N Pull or other corporate-run junkyards, look at mid to late 1990s Fords, Saabs, Volvos and whatever else is listed through Bosch. You can often see the injector #'s or at least the general shape and color of the injectors without removing the intake manifold. Ex: 700, 710, 712, 715, 746, plus the 5xx and 9xx options already mentioned. Make sure you get the thin looking ones with grooves on the top half for the square clips. There are smooth ones without slots for the injector clips that won't work. Take 5 or 6 of each series you want and put them [in a bag] in your pocket and get them for free (fuck Pick N Pull, plus you already paid a few dollars to get in). After that you can either clean them yourself (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/JF-Tech/BMW_E30_3_Series_fuel_injector_cleaning.htm) and go to an autoparts store to buy new o-rings (about $10-15 for all eight) and maybe buy some Lubro Moly Fuel Injector cleaner, or ship them out to be professionally cleaned and flow-rates tested. Or just buy them online to begin with.
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Is there reasoning behind saying to get the skinny ones instead of the ones that match the factory look? Not siding either way, just wondering.
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The fat ones like OEM are the old EV1 Bosch series still used in the early 90s with "150" in model #. Thinner ones = 4 hole EV6 with "155" in model #. Size of the injector doesn't matter as long as the o-rings on the top and bottom sit as well as stock. The length is almost identical, I think the 155's are ~1-2mm longer on top, and ~2-3mm shorter on bottom, but the actual nozzles are kind of hidden so it's hard to tell which sits lower.
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That makes enough sense, lol - I thought the 0280150556 were 4 port/nozzle and that's why it was referenced has an 'upgraded/oe replacement'
So I'll be on the look out at a couple yards for those - thank you very much
Or - if I were to just order a new set - do you have a recommended part number? I see a new one up for xxx 156 xxx
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So I want these injectors right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSCH-19LB-FUEL-INJECTORS-YELLOW-TOP-4-HOLE-FUEL-NOZZLE-Ford-Mustang-5-0L-/261254479540?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item3cd3fafeb4&vxp=mtr
If not could someone link me the correct ones, most links on here are broken.
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Those will wok
So I want these injectors right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSCH-19LB-FUEL-INJECTORS-YELLOW-TOP-4-HOLE-FUEL-NOZZLE-Ford-Mustang-5-0L-/261254479540?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item3cd3fafeb4&vxp=mtr
If not could someone link me the correct ones, most links on here are broken.
Pretty sure that those will do. I have 0280150943, they are common and work good so far.
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Those will wokSo I want these injectors right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSCH-19LB-FUEL-INJECTORS-YELLOW-TOP-4-HOLE-FUEL-NOZZLE-Ford-Mustang-5-0L-/261254479540?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item3cd3fafeb4&vxp=mtr
If not could someone link me the correct ones, most links on here are broken.
Pretty sure that those will do. I have 0280150943, they are common and work good so far.
Also I have an e36 and someone told me that the newer m42 in the e36 already has a 4 hole nozzle, is this true? Also what kind of power gain would you get out of these injectors?
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Yes the e39 m42 engine has The 4 hole injectors. They are Lucas brand. The pintles are buried WAY inside the injector not right at the end like the bosch mustang injectors. I can post pictures if you want them. I am running the mustang injectors in my e36 m42. The idle is much better and the engine is smoother at all rpms. It seems to pull a little harder but I cant say there is any significant gain in power. I attribute the smoother idle and smoother running to a better injector spray pattern... Hope this helps...Skid
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I meant to type e36 not e39...Damm sausage fingers!! Sorry...Skid
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Yes the e39 m42 engine has The 4 hole injectors. They are Lucas brand. The pintles are buried WAY inside the injector not right at the end like the bosch mustang injectors. I can post pictures if you want them. I am running the mustang injectors in my e36 m42. The idle is much better and the engine is smoother at all rpms. It seems to pull a little harder but I cant say there is any significant gain in power. I attribute the smoother idle and smoother running to a better injector spray pattern... Hope this helps...Skid
Can you post pictures of the injectors? How's the fuel consumption with mustang injectors?
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Didn't se much of a change in fuel consumption... But then again it is a race car!!! Here is the photos you asked for... The one on the right is the stock e36 Lucas injector the left is the mustang.. Good Luck.. Skid
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Didn't se much of a change in fuel consumption... But then again it is a race car!!! Here is the photos you asked for... The one on the right is the stock e36 Lucas injector the left is the mustang.. Good Luck.. Skid
thanks.
Cant see how many holes there are in the original injetor
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There are 4 pintles in the Lucas injector but they are burried way inside.....Skid
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There are 4 pintles in the Lucas injector but they are burried way inside.....Skid
skid,
thanks for the photos and info. I am about to ask mechanic to take out injectors to inspect. is it possible to clean or some special tools are required? I have constant fuel starvation during acceleration resulting in momentary power loss or "diving" effect. I still do not know what the cause is. this happens at 2000 rpm onward and a bit of jerk. are clogged injectors the cause?
someone told me it could be the afm that doesn't open the flap properly like getting stuck. but usually at higher rpm, the flap should not get stuck. what's your experience?
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Hey there,
It does sound like a afm problem to me... If the afm is bad the signal to the dme would be corrupt resulting in the dme sending the wrong info to the injectors.. But, you need to start somewhere so I would have your injectors cleaned just to know that they are indeed fuctioning properly. I am not sure where you live but a reputable shop will charge around $20 ea to sonicly clean and test the spray pattern. Then, maybe barrow a buddies afm? Or swoop on on ebay, like $50?... Skid
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I figure I'll throw my $.02 in here...
A long time ago I used junkyard mustang injectors that I did the "DIY rebuild" using a kit online and soaking them in carb cleaner. I don't honestly recall much of an improvement.
About a year ago I bought a set of rebuilt ones on ebay (they were being sold for a JEEP as they came in a pack of 4 rather than paying extra for 8). These were flow matched and cleaned professionally for $100 shipped to my door.
Car, when cold, starts quicker than my brand new Ford Focus. Sometimes it'll fire up in 1 crank of the starter. Hot start isn't the greatest but I think I'm dealing with another issue there. Mileage went up from an average to 26 to 29.
I should note I live in the land of good weather and sunshine known as southern California. We have crappier, 10% ethanol added gas.
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Hey there,
It does sound like a afm problem to me... If the afm is bad the signal to the dme would be corrupt resulting in the dme sending the wrong info to the injectors.. But, you need to start somewhere so I would have your injectors cleaned just to know that they are indeed fuctioning properly. I am not sure where you live but a reputable shop will charge around $20 ea to sonicly clean and test the spray pattern. Then, maybe barrow a buddies afm? Or swoop on on ebay, like $50?... Skid
I live in Malaysia/Singapore. I checked with mechanic here but he's not sure where to do this kind of injector cleaning. Anyway, I'll find out.
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I figure I'll throw my $.02 in here...
A long time ago I used junkyard mustang injectors that I did the "DIY rebuild" using a kit online and soaking them in carb cleaner. I don't honestly recall much of an improvement.
About a year ago I bought a set of rebuilt ones on ebay (they were being sold for a JEEP as they came in a pack of 4 rather than paying extra for 8). These were flow matched and cleaned professionally for $100 shipped to my door.
Car, when cold, starts quicker than my brand new Ford Focus. Sometimes it'll fire up in 1 crank of the starter. Hot start isn't the greatest but I think I'm dealing with another issue there. Mileage went up from an average to 26 to 29.
I should note I live in the land of good weather and sunshine known as southern California. We have crappier, 10% ethanol added gas.
Here we have Ron 95 97 and 100 gas. Shell V Power Racing is highest octane rating
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I thought I might add that I stuck a wide band o2 in my exhaust last night and did some pulls and steady state driving using the Mustang injectors on my e30 318i.
Car rarely deviated from the mid 14's in air fuel ratios, even under acceleration. Cruising AFR's were 14.9, idling 14.9-15.1. under acceleration is was low 14's.
This was after the catalytic converter though, so I'm sure that affects the numbers.
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Running early Ford motorsport 24lb 4 hole injectors found in Mustang Cobras and more importantly pick-ups and vans with 460 (7.5 L) V-8's.
installed in a 1991 E30 318is with the 'stock header turbo build' in the thread that we wrote up here in May 2011 as Esprit Aviation. Engine is entirely stock except for our Esprit Motorsports single row timing chain conversion. It has approx. 145K miles on it and has never been rebuilt.
Updated since then: 8psi, saab 900 intercooler, Aeromotive RRFPR
@60psi base pressure
"Witchhunter performance data was obtained from actual flow bench testing at our shop and should be used as a guide only."
Data from Stan Weiss site is virtually identical. Thanks to both for providing detailed info.
Stock: 0-280-150-714 15.8 ohms .9A 192cc @ 3 bar 18.25
1992 Saab 900 Turbo:0-280-150-761 15.8 ohms .9A 240cc @ 3 bar
1993 Ford F-250: 0-280-150-947 14.3 ohms 1.0A 260cc @ 3 bar
Alternate Ford v8-5.0l, Truck v8-7.5l part number F55E-A2E
The Ford -947 and F55E injectors will use .1 Amp more than the stock BMW injectors
Monitored with NGK AFX Powerdex wideband A/F ratio meter: 11.5:1 to 12:1 AFR at WOT; 14.5-14.7 at idle and cruise.
My son successfully ran the car in the Zone 1 PCA at Watkins Glen on June 7-8. Youtube video link to be posted soon
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hi
seeing as this thread seems to be the main injector thread on here i thought id ask here
currently getting a m44 built :
2.1 stroker
12:1 compression
big cams
ported head
will only be used for competition use if this makes any difference.
what sort of spec injectors am i looking at? was thinking euro m3 e36 spec injectors but they seem very similair to m44 injectors anyway?
cheers
Sion
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Sion,
I used the 947's, which are also the Ford Motorsport inj's, on my 2.045L stroker. Plenty of fuel. I'm running Alpha N with MAP, cams, ported head, bigger headers and dual exhaust.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Great ralph.
Just the answer i needed. Found a few on ebay now at decent prices.
What power have you got from your engine with that spec?
Cheers
Sion
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Compression Ratio 10.9:1
Horsepower 212 @ 6875
Torque 163 @ 4175 172 @ 5950
Redline 7500 rpm
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Sounds very good. Is this on itbs?
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please advise me my old injector is d3761fa (0280150501) stock injector. i need to upgrade it please help me> if mustang 0280150700 or 0280150556 ??
i need smooth and good idle>
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The same i need any one tell me if put 280150700 or dont change 280150501 (1739242 D3761fa ) lucas injector stock .
please any advise
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2+ years later..... I hope that you figured it out by now sh123! LOL Yes I'm running Dbilas ITB's.
zaidddd...you didn't say why you need to change injectors. Esprit Motorsports has a nice post for a couple of injectors a few posts above.
I wouldn't use mine if you've got a stock motor. If you have a stock motor with a chip I'm not sure how much the DME will be able to compensate for changes in fuel rates.
What are you trying to accomplish? Why not have your injectors cleaned? IF the car isn't running well then just cleaning the injectors could make the world of difference.
Here are 2 websites you can go check and see what you're trying to do for yourself. Remember that the 318 uses high impedance injectors.
http://www.users.interport.net/s/r/srweiss/tableifc.htm (http://www.users.interport.net/s/r/srweiss/tableifc.htm)
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectordata1.php (http://www.witchhunter.com/injectordata1.php)
Cheers,
~Ralph
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thanks for that but need smoth idle and new tech not the old one holes. and need to have more mile in this update.
but when I check the old one d3761fa and the mustang 700# I see mustang cc is less and lbs. If any one try in 318is if it good or have problem.
thanks friends
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my engine is stock. just cop 4 coil .your advise if change or stay with old injectors
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Keep what you have and just get them cleaned.
It's not only the injectors that can give you a bad idle. There are plenty of things to do that.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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all ok but need some millage more. and wr dint have stock injectors in our area. need to upgrade if better and available.
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OK. You can upgrade the injectors but that still doesn't mean that there isn't something else going on. How about a small tear in your intake boot? The clamp might not be tightened down all the way? Just those would cause your car to rough idle and lose mileage.
There is more to it. Could be a tired motor too.
You might want to find a good mechanic that knows these cars and have him go through the car completely and see what he finds. Always better to have more eyes on an issue instead of just throwing time, parts and money at it in my opinion.
HTH
Cheers,
~Ralph
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thanks . my engine is ok. but the injectors from 1993 just now working. I need to change just need the correct injectors. I will check the intake.
my transmission is auto. but I like any upgrade in this engine.
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Well then the next upgrade is a stroker 2.1L!!! LOL
Cheers,
~Ralph
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lool . when I know the injectors first .
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Not sure if I'd posted this before, but there's another easy source for these updated Bosch disk-type injectors. Look for part number 0 280 155 746. Same flow rating, same length, same wiring plug, same retention clip. They are a direct fit to many older BMWs, not just the M42. They even have the yellow bodies!
(https://drive.google.com/thumbnail?id=0BzdLPs7cyF4tRjF4Qjg2QlpyalU&sz=w240-h180) (https://drive.google.com/thumbnail?id=0BzdLPs7cyF4tT05sNU1uVnpKek0&sz=w240-h180)
Just look for Volvo non-turbo cars from the early '00s. They're all transverse-engined cars with inline-5 & inline-6s, cars like the S60/V70/C70/XC70 etc.. They're easy to find, the fuel rail is a cinch to remove, and they work really well in our cars. I just put them on my M30 and wrote up a more detailed article about it here on my site, click for more details. (http://theiconicbmw.com/about-me/tech-articles/chasing-efficiency/bosch-design-iii-fuel-injectors/)
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Keep in mind that later M42 & M44 motors will have air injector shrouds wrapped around the fuel injectors.
I have not tested these newer design Bosch injectors in the newer cars and would suspect that they would not have 100% compatibility. Your mileage may vary!
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Does anyone know the pin to pin resistance specs for these
Bosch 0280150556 injectors?
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They're high resistance injectors. I don't know the exact spec, but I'd assume something like 12-14 ohms.
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If you are just wanting 4 pintle injectors vs. the single pintle of 1991, factory 1992 and 1993 injectors are bolt in. Same diameter / flow rate etc and not air shrouded like the later larger diameter ones.