M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: 1991318is on March 31, 2006, 01:50:14 AM
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Anyone race w/ a cage or atleast 4 point bars, thinking about it, but can't decide, any input? Oh,and this car will be autoxing mainly, not just a little wannabe racer, it will be a trackrat...
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Beware of having a roll bar or cage in a daily driven car. In a wreck, you will put yourself and any passenger(s) at risk. You really don't need one for auto-x. The moment you put a roll bar in you car, you are restricting yourself to 2 passengers.
Even if you are building a track car, once that track car will be daily driven, you don't need to have a cage or bar in it neccessarily.
I had a roll bar in my old car and when I got into a wreck; even though I was belted up and using an e30 euro recaro seats with bolsters, I was not held in well with the standard seat belt. On impact ( car slid backwards into a median ) my head made contact with the diagonal bar, split the foam padding, and the hat I was wearing which had a metal buckle, proceeded to slice my scalp :eek:
13 or so staples and a concussion later I was glad to be alive. A few days later I yanked the roll bar out and sold it. I will never use one unless I have a harnesses, helmet, highest density padding and a race seat as that's the only way you are safe.
Granted I have seen cases where people have been saved by roll bars/cages on the track, for a street driven car, it provides more harm than danger.
My 2 pfennings.
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I've got harnesses I wnat to use in the car, so not a big deal to have harnesses.
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i know its off topic but what about a 4 point harness W/ out a roll cage? is it safe? JW.
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If I wanted a 2-seater I would get a miata. They handle much better than e30's to begin with too!
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i know its off topic but what about a 4 point harness W/ out a roll cage? is it safe? JW.
thats what I am running right now.
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thats what I am running right now.
where did you mount yours down?
I did that in my old pickup w/ just harnesses.
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the inside mounts are mounted to the sliders and the outsides are mounted to where the seatbelt bar thing on the floor (next to the door) was. I removed that bar. I need to drill holes in the tranny tunnel I guess so I can tighten the belts more.
the sholder belts are mounted to the rear seat belt mounts.
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Harnesses should always be mounted to a harness bar. Spine compression doesnt sound very fun to me.
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If I wanted a 2-seater I would get a miata. They handle much better than e30's to begin with too!
Ya.....but it will still be miata. everybody's got those (atleast where i live they do)....and there ugly, spend the extra cash and get a honda S2002, or better yet a Lotus elise:)
thats what I am running right now.
In you DD? im just wondering cause im considering it, is it a pain to get in and out of all the time? thanks.
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In you DD? im just wondering cause im considering it, is it a pain to get in and out of all the time? thanks.
I dunno bout him, but I ran them in my pickup for a few years and it gets humorous if you don't have the camlock ones watching people try and figure out the harnesses. I never had any issues w/ my RCI 5 point ones. The only part I didn't like was how big the buckle part was because it wasn't a camlock so it got uncomfortable w/ how upright the seat kept you in the gut, but overall I loved mine to death and I wanna do it again in my bimmer
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yeah its actually kinda fun, friends love to ride in my car because its a "toy". Its not really hard to get in and out. My harness has a buckle like normal belts. Ohh and yes its a DD
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yeah its actually kinda fun, friends love to ride in my car because its a "toy". Its not really hard to get in and out. My harness has a buckle like normal belts. Ohh and yes its a DD
Is yours a 2 inch or 3 inch belt?
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2" corbeau's
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2" corbeau's
Ya thats what i want. thanks for the info.....i think im gonna do it.
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2" corbeau's
nice, little stuff, I'm runnin the 3 inch RCI's from summitracing
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Anyone race w/ a cage or atleast 4 point bars, thinking about it, but can't decide, any input? Oh,and this car will be autoxing mainly, not just a little wannabe racer, it will be a trackrat...
e9nine makes a good point about the safety of a roll bar or cage in a car where you don't have a proper racing seat or helmet.
The best solution I have found is the harness bar idea. I don't know who else makes these, but you can see it in the pics in TIATO's member profile. I think I will eventually get something like this when I get around to getting a harness.
I don't know how practical it is, but I think it can be unbolted in the "off season" to retain use of the backseat again. I had something similar in my 944S2, and I just left it in all the time.
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i know its off topic but what about a 4 point harness W/ out a roll cage? is it safe? JW.
I hate to be the new guy on the block preaching in my first post, so I'd like to just point out that harnesses in a car without a rollbar would be very, very bad in a rollover. Being strapped upright to the seat as the roof collapses, and your head becomes the next object to strike the road surface-the picture is rather frightening, isn't it? At least with a 3-point belt you can "fold" your body towards the centerline of the car.
There is a pic floating around the internet of an e36 that rolled and was crushed down the door rails-both people in the car survived, by virtue of the 3-points allowing them to "fold" at the waist.
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I hate to be the new guy on the block preaching in my first post, so I'd like to just point out that harnesses in a car without a rollbar would be very, very bad in a rollover. Being strapped upright to the seat as the roof collapses, and your head becomes the next object to strike the road surface-the picture is rather frightening, isn't it? At least with a 3-point belt you can "fold" your body towards the centerline of the car.
There is a pic floating around the internet of an e36 that rolled and was crushed down the door rails-both people in the car survived, by virtue of the 3-points allowing them to "fold" at the waist.
I'd totally agree, I've also seen a video of a porsche racing w/ no cage but had harnesses and almost catches his head. Especially w/ racing upright seats in particular. No one has mentioned them, but just a tidbit, not a good idea. I'm leaning towards in my car since it will be a custom cage and I'll just route them away from the head area or where it would be in an accident(to the most of my ability) and then keep it that way. no one ever is in the back so it's not a big deal to not be able to take people in the back of my car.
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I hate to be the new guy on the block preaching in my first post, so I'd like to just point out that harnesses in a car without a rollbar would be very, very bad in a rollover. Being strapped upright to the seat as the roof collapses, and your head becomes the next object to strike the road surface-the picture is rather frightening, isn't it? At least with a 3-point belt you can "fold" your body towards the centerline of the car.
There is a pic floating around the internet of an e36 that rolled and was crushed down the door rails-both people in the car survived, by virtue of the 3-points allowing them to "fold" at the waist.
ya ive heard this to, i heard you should have a cage if you want 4 points but then again you cant have a cage W/ out a helmet.....and so on. but wouldnt it be much sefer in a collision that didnt result in a rollover to have 4 points? i geuss its a gamble.
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indeed. life is a gamble...
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ya ive heard this to, i heard you should have a cage if you want 4 points but then again you cant have a cage W/ out a helmet.....and so on. but wouldnt it be much sefer in a collision that didnt result in a rollover to have 4 points? i geuss its a gamble.
I've got 4 points in my other car, not that big of a deal. I couldn't picture them being any more unsafe than just regular seatbelts. I think they would provide more stability in a crash but I could understand how they would get dangerous in a rollover, but I'd personally take the chance...
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So you want a cage and going to go racing with it? Then you will have to have at least a 6 point... it can be bolted or welded in, though many agree that you should have a weld in cage. You can buy a bolt in cage and just weld it (which will help keep cost down)
I would not run harnesses on the street...
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So you want a cage and going to go racing with it? Then you will have to have at least a 6 point... it can be bolted or welded in, though many agree that you should have a weld in cage. You can buy a bolt in cage and just weld it (which will help keep cost down)
I would not run harnesses on the street...
he also said it would mainly be an auto-x car. A roll bar/cage is only added weight in auto-x.
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Basically unless you go full bore, helmet, harness, and bar/cage, do not do it. You really need the whole package or nothing.
I thought about doing similar, but then I started hearing a lot lately of busted open heads on cages. Not cool.
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as long as you are straped in with anything other than a 3 point, your head should be fine. Also i would rather have a bump on the head than a break in the neck
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I run both the harnesses and the stock 3 point
i have them bolted to the rear seatbelt points which creates a ~50 degree angle with the seatback so spine compression is a minimal concern, moreover when im not PITL'ing it, i use the 3 point and this still alows me to 'fold' over in the event of a roll over. Mind you, I don't have a rear seat and actually rarely have even a passenger seat cause im so lonely (:
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I'm thinking of putting a roll bar in the car with race seats and harness, but not a full roll cage. Would a roll bar not do much good? I'm not driving this car around, it's just a trackcar /autox.
But for now I'd be interested in a replacement of the worn 3 point seatbelts (WTB).
How are you guys able to run harness without racing seats? Do the shoulder straps just rest over the seat? Or do you have them going through the headrest? I cant quite picture this becoming a suitable or safe solution.
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being short is a win i guess? I don't see how my head would ever contact a 4 pt. unless i lifted out of my seat and rolled my head backwards...
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I'm thinking of putting a roll bar in the car with race seats and harness, but not a full roll cage. Would a roll bar not do much good? I'm not driving this car around, it's just a trackcar /autox.
But for now I'd be interested in a replacement of the worn 3 point seatbelts (WTB).
How are you guys able to run harness without racing seats? Do the shoulder straps just rest over the seat? Or do you have them going through the headrest? I cant quite picture this becoming a suitable or safe solution.
the only car i was in that had 4 pt. without a cage ran them across the seat backs, outside the headrest. didn't feel very safe...
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i know its off topic but what about a 4 point harness W/ out a roll cage? is it safe? JW.
Think about that like this. You roll your car with a standard seatbelt, your body moves to the side, most likely to the passengers seat. You roll it with your upper body held in place, your fucked.
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that would be really cool if u do run a cage.
is ur gonna be a track rat or DD or both?
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A good roll cage may save your life, a bad one will kill you.
Roll cages in any case where you are not wearing a helmet are slightly stupid.
In the case of a crash, with your body flying about the place, a roll cage is just a very very hard place to hit off.
In most cases its either a case of going all the way or not at all.
But in some, such as the Porsche GT3 RS, it is acceptable.
Porsche justified fitting a rollcage for a few reasons.
1) It is rear only
2) There is a harness bar, so 3 or 4 point belts can be worn
3) The seat back is very large, so this will prevent any stray body parts from reaching back there in a crash.
(http://www.motiontrends.com/2006/m06/Porsche/Porsche_911_GT3_RS_5d.jpg)
I would never fit a roll cage into a daily driver but after all, there are allot of ways to stiffen up the chassis other than roll cages.
If you look at the Scoot rx7, koseki-san didn't feel the need to install a rollcage, but instead he strengthened the shell through seam welding, strategic braces and reinforcement plates along with filling the frame cavities.
Also, dont forget about the lockable 3 point seat belts.
Where you fit a new buckle that locks the lap belt in place, but allows you to move your top half, so if your reaching to get something, or folding out of the way in a rollover, it is a win win situation.
This is used allot in the stunt driving buisness
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Yeh here in Aust they are very strict on this. I did some resuch in to the car and harness thing here is what i know according to Aust compliance. For street use you may only have a halve cage positioned so that when your seat is in the upright position all the way back there is about a 10cm of clearance between the cage and back of the seat. Then if you want to install a harness you must have it bolted to the cage and professionally fitted and approved.
I agree that if you are going to put a cage and harness in go all the way or not at all. I know that sparco dose a have cage boltin kit which is fia approved which should be satisfactory for you uses. you wont get much stiffness from a half cage, so you might as well get a boltin and then weld some plates and what not for more stiffness. You dont get much improvement from cages untill you get to the 10 point and 12 point cages and even then you need an engineer to look at it to optimise you stiffness.
I must say that a street car with a cage dose look the shit though.