M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: christophbmw on February 04, 2007, 09:10:29 PM
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So has anybody done it, i thought it might be cool to make a bio-diesel car that would still be fun to drive. I have been thinking about stroking my DD 318is but why not go with a diesel. any info would help, thanks.
ps. ive been searching on the net for about an hour now on the subject and turned up empty handed.
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yeah, its something i never heard of... i know i was thinking about putting a cummins into the 56 belair me and my brother were restoring... but the wiring and purchase of the engine kind of ruled it out..
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i had a look around, and couldnt see much. I also thought it would be an interesting swap. Some of the tuner versions of those motors get impressive torque.
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I would like this setup http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/164165.html
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The best engine to use would be the M41 engine. It is not as technicaly advanced as the M47 but they are cheap and can be strocked and bored for more displacment and they do have some electronic control over injection timing and amount. It uses an early bosch system similar to the VW A3 cars such as golf and Jetta and early passat. The blocks are very similar and may even have the same mounting points. I too have thought of this idea considering how much US blood is shead for oil regardless of what the government says. Biodiesel is renuable and cleaner than other posibilities. The only problem is that you cut the cars fun factory by half. I have driven a few VW turbo diesels and they are SLOW.
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Hmm, in EU I guess we are more used to driving diesels. Dont forget last 24H of LeMans was won by a diesel..
I owned a golf MkII GTD with intercooler and was hugh fun (light car)
I owned a golf MkIII TD w/h incercooler and was not fast at all..
I now own currently a 1.9JTD alfa 156 sw with a chip, breating 145Hp and i accelerate faster than with my MkIII Golf GTI i used to own. Also my moms Audi A4 1.9 has stock 130 Hp, thats w/h chiptuning, wheel spin in 2nd and 3 gear, chip would yield around 155hp. (Fwd so not to special). I mean (Turbo)diesels can be hugh fun, and very easy and cheap to tune. Plus they are very good on gas milage. All that said, my M42 is cooler than any of the other cars...
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diesels are the way of the future. When you can run 550hp, 1200lb/ft of tq, and still get 20-28 mpg with 6 and 7 liter diesels there is something to say about efficiency right there. Especially when you can make biodiesel for 13 cents per liter.
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hmmmm. thanks for the replies, i thought for sure i would get flamed. the M47 is like 211HP/220TQ (something like that) so the fun factor would double in my opinion. I will probabally never get the money to do a swap like this, but its cool to see whats out there.
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I haven't done it but it sounds exciting. The latest generation 2L diesels can get 200 HP with just a chip, and then who knows how much more with propane injection. On top of things, think of the TORQUE!!!!!
It might be as much fun as an M42 even if it would not sing as sweetly.
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How in the heck would you find an M47 motor here in the states? You've gotta think that it would be extremely expensive to import one from the EU...
To be honest, I'm tempted by this as well (even though I love my M42 motor) although it would be in an E36 (so mounting points wouldn't be as big of an issue).
-D
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How in the heck would you find an M47 motor here in the states? You've gotta think that it would be extremely expensive to import one from the EU...
To be honest, I'm tempted by this as well (even though I love my M42 motor) although it would be in an E36 (so mounting points wouldn't be as big of an issue).
-D
i know, thats the only thing stoping me. if i liked the E36 chassis i would just import an E36 to the states with the M47 in it from the factory.
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I have an E36 (and I love the chassis - at least in the 318i / iS version - and I'm speaking as a former E30 owner). Unfortunately, I think importing an E36 318d or 320d would be pretty hard due to Federalization issues. It would probably be easier to just sneak an engine over and feign ignorance when the smog police ask questions. :p
It's a nice dream, at least...
-Derek
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Maybe I dont understand you the right way...but an e36 never had an m47 engine and an e36 was never build as a 318d or 320d. Not for the german market.
The e36 was sold as 318tds with an m41 engine.
There was a posting in the motorenforum (http://f23.parsimony.net/forum52632/messages/154152.htm) of http://www.e30.de about swapping a 320d- or 330d-engine into an e30. One of the users said that it isnt so much trouble. Maybe it is interesting for someone.....
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cummins into the 56 belair me and my brother were restoring
I used to own a 1957 Bel Air 2dht ;)
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Maybe I dont understand you the right way...but an e36 never had an m47 engine and an e36 was never build as a 318d or 320d. Not for the german market.
The e36 was sold as 318tds with an m41 engine.
There was a posting in the motorenforum (http://f23.parsimony.net/forum52632/messages/154152.htm) of http://www.e30.de about swapping a 320d- or 330d-engine into an e30. One of the users said that it isnt so much trouble. Maybe it is interesting for someone.....
My mistake. I saw that BMW had an M47-equipped 3-Series in 1999, but forgot that there were E46 models in 1999 (you could still get E36 coupes here in the States). Drat. I don't want an E46 - they're too boring and heavy.
-D
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I used to own a 1957 Bel Air 2dht ;)
what made you get rid of it? I had a 68 chevelle before the 318is. chevelle got stolen, gas prices on the rise, figured i'd get something that did better then 10mpg...
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what made you get rid of it?
Well, it's a long story. I bought that car as a basket case for 250€ (back in 1983) restored it two years (cost me about 5000€). drove it summer 1985. Then my friends kid brother wanted to buy my Bel Air. He offered me little bit over 20000€.... I agreed, he got loan from bank and bought the car. He only drove it about a month when he and his 5 closet friend were having a ride. All of them were drunk... Bel Air hitted a pine tree very badly, it was totalled, so he was not able to fix it. Luckily no one was not hurt. Car was sold as a parts.
I was looking a bigger house that time and with extra money i got from Bel Air i was able to buy it. So better living standards were the main reason to sell it. I have regret it ever since :(
I still have my fathers 1956 VW Beetle. My dad bought it new. I have kept it garaged at our summer place for almost 25 years now. I will never sell it, but i will start to restore it only when i have enough money to get it done as it should.
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.....anybody read "road & track"? they had a short article about some guy who made a motorcycle in the bay area, here in cali. and he used the M47 for diesel power, apparently the thing hauls ass and gets like 80mpg or some crazy sh*t like that.
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.....forgot to metion, that was the september '07 issue.
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Christoph,
I like your idea. I'd love to build an E36 320d (like the one that won the 1998 24 Hours of Nurburgring, powered by the M47) to satisfy my own personal eccentricities. Bimmerworld has already informed me that they can source and import a M47TUD20 for me. Hmmmm...
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Christoph,
I like your idea. I'd love to build an E36 320D (like the one that won the 1998 24 Hours of Nurburgring, powered by the M47) to satisfy my own personal eccentricities. Bimmerworld has already informed me that they can source and import a M47TUD20 for me. Hmmmm...
did they give you a price? When i graduate college i want to go over there and buy the new 120TD and drive it around a bit and then ship it back here. those motors are wicked. 247ft pds tq and 50mpg!
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Christoph,
I like your idea. I'd love to build an E36 320D (like the one that won the 1998 24 Hours of Nurburgring, powered by the M47) to satisfy my own personal eccentricities. Bimmerworld has already informed me that they can source and import a M47TUD20 for me. Hmmmm...
Oh yes... My preciousssssssssssssss :o
(http://www.jannousiainen.net/hobbies/bmw/e36_318is/images/M_test_center_1.JPG)
I took this image in 2003 when I visited Nurburgring for the first time. This is the 1998 24H race winner. Ordinary Supertouring race shell mated with preproduction M47 diesel.
E36 + M47 would be a hugely fun project. That way you can "legally" use turbocharged engine (why, engine was made that way from the factory!) that has big power potential from stock and you can marry it to a bodyshell where it was actually used to win very prestigious race :)
Here's what I found from a company that chip programs E46 320d's:
163 hp /335 Nm
179 hp /390 Nm
199 hp / 410 Nm
There were number of M47 iterations and their chipped output varies, hence number of possible outputs. If you change turbo, improve intercooling etc the sky is the limit.
Imagine lightened 1100 kg bodyshell with 200 hp / 400 Nm engine on track! :eek:
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The best option to get the engine would be to import a half clip of a car. The ricers do it all the time with half clip WRXs, civics from Japan. As far as the federal gov is concerned its just car parts, not a car. Once the whole front half of the car gets here, you have the engine plus all the necessary ancillaries to swap into a complete US market shell. Then theres the matter of state emissions which is different everywhere. The good news is that in California at least this swap is perfectly legal. You just have to take it to your local dmv, they see that its running on diesel and the give you a sticker. Once thats done you never have to get it smog checked again. Heres a TDI swap into a volvo 245 in San Diego. Totally legal in California.
http://picasaweb.google.com/yoshifab/VolvoTDI
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No idea on price. The half-cut IS a better idea.
Boyracer, I've seen that photo of the E36 320d before (probably on your website about your 318i.)
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Boyracer, I've seen that photo of the E36 320d before (probably on your website about your 318i.)
Yes the photo is from my pages :)
Found bit more info about the car. 0-100 kmh (0-62 mph) 4.5s 1040 kg 245 hp between 4200-4600 and 430 Nm between 2500-3500. 23 liters of diesel / hour which was about half compared to ordinary non-diesel racecars.
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Found bit more info about the car. 0-100 kmh (0-62 mph) 4.5s 1040 kg 245 hp between 4200-4600 and 430 Nm between 2500-3500.
Thanks for those figures. I was looking for power specs on the E36 320d STW...I was curious to know how the race engine of 1998 compared to the tweaked engine in Alpina's new E90 D3 (with about 200hp & 400Nm.)
In essence, it appears, the 1998 race engine is about the same as the current E87 120d race car
And the Alpina-tuned D3 engine is about the same as a "chipped" E90 320d - although from watching the only vid I've seen on the Alpina D3 it looks like it redlines much higher than a stock diesel... nearly 6,000rpm! Wow!
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Yes the photo is from my pages :)
Found bit more info about the car. 0-100 kmh (0-62 mph) 4.5s 1040 kg 245 hp between 4200-4600 and 430 Nm between 2500-3500. 23 liters of diesel / hour which was about half compared to ordinary non-diesel racecars.
that looks like a baby six in the picture.....i may be wrong though.
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that looks like a baby six in the picture.....i may be wrong though.
I'm quite sure it is six cylinder S38B38 from E34 M5. I took better photo of the engine alone but I cannot access my photo archive right now...
Newest 2 liter BMW diesel puts out 200 hp / 400 Nm, stock :eek:
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(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2104/ancienne143qd6.th.jpg) (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ancienne143qd6.jpg)
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Newest 2 liter BMW diesel puts out 200 hp / 400 Nm, stock :eek:
......and it does it at low RPM's!
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i'm from belgium and i drive a e36 diesel, 318tds, 16xxcc and stock 90bhp and 190Nm
quite boring i here you say, indeed, but i've chipped it, now it runs a little better but its not a bomb
in e30series there wa the 324d a lazy 6stroker with appr. 110bhp
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So I'm thinking of selling my 1992 325i.
Reason is, I've relocated to South Dakota and am only a walk away from work but some stinkin' long drives anywhere else. So I'm also thinkin...
M47 into the 1992 325i?
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M47 into the 1992 325i?
as long as the m50 is in the 318is ;)
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Anybody see this one? Or know who this is?
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/08/21/the-strange-case-of-the-bavarian-vegetarian/
Granted it's an M21 IDI, but he claims 50mpg and likely 10-sec 0-60mph. That little e46 320d DI should be outstanding. I wonder if it revs like a gas engine...
The half clip is a great idea...I was looking to buy a 180sx once upon a time and the JDM cuts were pretty cheap. Anyone in Germany willing to source our parts?
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Anybody see this one? Or know who this is?
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/08/21/the-strange-case-of-the-bavarian-vegetarian/
Granted it's an M21 IDI, but he claims 50mpg and likely 10-sec 0-60mph. That little e46 320d DI should be outstanding. I wonder if it revs like a gas engine...
The half clip is a great idea...I was looking to buy a 180sx once upon a time and the JDM cuts were pretty cheap. Anyone in Germany willing to source our parts?
Yeah, I've seen that website before. Great inspiration. No idea who it is, though.
Once in a blue moon I run across listing like this one also...
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=248551756&dealer_id=63004447&car_year=1995&rdm=1245433659467&model=&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=Diesel&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=BMW&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=57368&advanced=y&end_year=1999&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=1177&standard=false (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=248551756&dealer_id=63004447&car_year=1995&rdm=1245433659467&model=&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=Diesel&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=BMW&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=57368&advanced=y&end_year=1999&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=1177&standard=false)
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I thought about doing that to my e34...but then I bought this money pit 318i...
That looks like the real deal, too. I wonder what kind of mileage an E34/M51 gets? My E34/M20 does like 19/26.