M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: StreetSpec_iS on January 28, 2007, 07:23:16 PM
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so, at the moment im contemplating motors.
i think i have narrowed it down to the final two.
modded m42 (ie stroker) vs a stockish 2.3 s14. price wise, im guessing they would be on par.
the one thing that keeps me thinking s14, is the ability to upgrade in the future. a modded m42 will be putting out about as much power as the 2.3, but with thta, it will be at the end of it's modability. if i get bored of the s14, there is always a 2.5 conversion etc etc.
so i guess im asking, in all honesty, which motor would be preferable. the only thing holding me back in regards to the s14, is maintenance costs, but i mean, maintenace costs on a 'custom' m42 wouldnt be that much different. i'm sure you know what i mean.
i'd be interested to hear from m42b21 and m3 ppls on this please.
oh, and no, i can't turbo the m42, for legal reasons. otherwise i'd be all over that.
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the biggest issues for me were:
- high cost of kinda iffy S14 engines (check those heads)
- upkeep on a built-up M42 is (so far, god willing) pretty much same as stock
- cost of all the other related stuff (tranny, driveline) etc.
but, that's just me!
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yeah I think that the s14 would end up costing a LOT more than building the m42. You also have to think about the cost of the swap as well as maintance.
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The S14 would would be better out of the box, but the advantage to building an M42 is that you know the motor is fresh.
With a used S14, you will have to rebuild it eventually and that gets very expensive
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yeah, its a tough decision. the other problem is that the s14 was never available locally. so sourcing parts could be tough.
Cheers for the input fellas.
The S14 would would be better out of the box, but the advantage to building an M42 is that you know the motor is fresh.
jaja. speaking of which, hos is the 2 litre going?
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What you might and will run into is that a 2.5 conversion is not cheap in any sense of the word on a S14, you´ve seen the $10-15k prices http://www.s14.net people are paying with smiling faces I might add,
the problem with the M42 is it´s size if BMW had designed it with bigger cylender spacing things would have been very very diffrent, wich also would have meant the M50 family would have grown into 3.5´s easily.
3.5 M50 is as large as they come ( custom crank, slight modding of the block where the crank would otherwise hit it, boring of it and so on)
same math on a M42 says 2333cc is the largest possible,
I´d be sure a 2.3 M42 would easily brake 200hp without wild cams
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A decent S14 would be good jake, but every single part is going to be a pain to get. Is there much in the way of S14 stuff over in SA?
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S14s are very cool. would be a load less ball-ache. i went m42 as i fancied a unique project and had wanted to do an m42 for ages. both options are good, s14 is probably the more sensible.
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Depends on the big picture. How much resources do you have?
You can put a m42 kit together to make some power; do you have anyone to burn you a custom chip, will u fit megasquirt to it etc? After buttoning it all up, you still have to penny up to finalize everything as there's no official map to use per se for tuning due to the varying offerings.
S14 - tried and proven recipe for power. Even a 2.3 can be made to do some nice #s. Get an oil pan baffle and you can even enjoy a stock motor in the car. Just get prepared for the accompanying price tag for parts and maintenance.
Given a set amount of $ - I'd say it comes down to "if you have an s14 readily available for a known amount versus an engine builder to put an m42 together for you at an agreed upon price.
Whatever you do - please don't penny pinch. Pay up and get it done right once and for all. It's sad to see many turbo and other n/a projects that never run right because people were trying to cut corners/didn't have experience or underestimated the knowlege behind the engineering put into their cars. Power addition is not an investment and is painful till you wear the smile of success in most cases.
I'd do an s14 personally :cool:
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some interesting reading on the s14
http://www.bmwworld.com/engines/s14.htm
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the problem with the M42 is it´s size if BMW had designed it with bigger cylender spacing things would have been very very diffrent, wich also would have meant the M50 family would have grown into 3.5´s easily.
3.5 M50 is as large as they come ( custom crank, slight modding of the block where the crank would otherwise hit it, boring of it and so on)
same math on a M42 says 2333cc is the largest possible,
I´d be sure a 2.3 M42 would easily brake 200hp without wild cams
Ok that very interesting, so which pistons could be used to reach 2300cm? If I would use the 96 m3 pistons (diam 86,4) i`d reach 2134. M1 pistons (diam 93,4) would give 2300cm but prob have an older design. Not to mention gudeon position etc. If I decide to increase capacity I would rather get 2200cm or more.
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M1 pistons (diam 93,4) would give 2300cm but prob have an older design.
That wouldnt work out so well with a 91mm bore spacing.
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jaja. speaking of which, hos is the 2 litre going?
quite well actually. Just need to find some rods, get the bottom end balanced, and then focus on the head.
I want to have the project done by July.
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quite well actually. Just need to find some rods, get the bottom end balanced, and then focus on the head.
I want to have the project done by July.
A tad bit O/T but Jake started it so I follow suit...
IIRC you have cams and headwork?Are you running software via Mark D as well? I think I read s/where that your car is as fast as your bros m20 (stock?) up until 60mph or so?
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my m42 has cams chip headwork and injectors, and its as fast as my buddies chipped m20.
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A tad bit O/T but Jake started it so I follow suit...
IIRC you have cams and headwork?Are you running software via Mark D as well? I think I read s/where that your car is as fast as your bros m20 (stock?) up until 60mph or so?
Just cams and markD chip so far.
It is faster to 60, dead even to 90 and then he walks me slowly after that. Stock 325i
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What kind of cams? Did you have to change springs or valves?
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Given a set amount of $ - I'd say it comes down to "if you have an s14 readily available for a known amount versus an engine builder to put an m42 together for you at an agreed upon price.
Thats the thing, i do have an s14 available right now. thats why i'm contemplating it. if i had to go searching for the motor from the start, no way. but its right there.
Whatever you do - please don't penny pinch. Pay up and get it done right once and for all.
No way, never. Do it right, do it tight. No loose ends. Shit, how long have you and I been discussing this fucking proposal. :confused: . I''m not about to cut corners now.
The big PRO M42 build point, is the fact the motor will be fresh, as someone already stated. Thats something that can't be ignored. I might buy the s14, fit it in, then have to rebuild it in a week, a month, a year, whatever. A fresh built M42 should last for a long time, even with me thrashing it.
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How many miles on the s14? Compression #s, Maintenane history. S14s are the bees knees for our cars. IF the motor is one that doesn't have a bazillion miles and has been taken care of - I'd do it up. Don't let the grenade stories scare you from people who didn't run baffles on them, change bearings or do some hack job shiet to thier motors.
It's a race spec foundation motor that needs attention unlike your run of the mill motor.
Do it up for the "ultimate driving pair" in your stash title :cool:
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You should do a S42 swap, very rare
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funny you should say that. I met someone that has a 'shed full' of E36 Super Tourer (AU Version of STW/BTCC) parts. incl s42 bits and pieces, slide throttles, suspension, brakes etc. He used to be a mechanic for one of the BMW Super Tourer teams.
Im still trying to see if he'll let me have a look one day. Im sure lots of it is worth some decent money.