M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: mt500ish on May 31, 2015, 05:09:35 PM
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Hi All as you can see am this far
(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/hkwatkin/Photo0627_zps4qdvkicv.jpg) (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/hkwatkin/media/Photo0627_zps4qdvkicv.jpg.html)
I have m57 short nose 90mm crank.
Euro s50 86mm pistons.
M52 2.8 135mm conrods with 21 mm small ends the conrods were made to order from racingpartsfactory-uk and delivery was within 2 weeks.
The problem is the nose/snout extension does anybody make them for sale or have a drawing or measurements to make one please.
The engine builder is not to happy about making one without see one or pictures of one.
Hope somebody can help thanks
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On page 8 of this PDF from Metric Mechanic:
http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdf/M42-Engine-Booklet.pdf
You can see the process in a little detail.
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Thanks for reply .
Loads of help will keep up dating with progress.
Have been building for a while nearly 2 years lol.
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Hello
There are 3 ways to do this.
1. Machine new snout that slots over the existing snout. But this might crack either the new part or the crank.
2. Weld m42 snout on at the front bearing and then get the bearing machined back to original specs. Again might crack.
3. This what we did machined m42 snout dipped it in liquid nitrogen, very cold causes metal to shrink.
The m47n tu2 crank (same as yours from looking at it) was machined out at the first counterweight and heated to 80 deg c in pie warmer. Lol
Causing the metal to expand. The 2 where then pushed together with a little weld behind the counter weight.
Good luck
Rohan
Don't know whether it works yet, have not started it yet!!! But looks the goods.
For more info on any of those methods pm me.
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Thanks for reply.
looking at getting snout extension made?
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As I am waiting for the nose extention to be made have been sorting out the ignition.
I got hold of a dynatek 2000 from a kawasaki z1000 the centre advance rotor was missing so ordered one and am waiting.
Here are some pics of a set up I have in my garden hope to starting it soon ready for the stroker.
(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/hkwatkin/Photo0639_zpsdwa4hby9.jpg) (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/hkwatkin/media/Photo0639_zpsdwa4hby9.jpg.html)
(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/hkwatkin/Photo0640_zpszplsvcav.jpg) (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/hkwatkin/media/Photo0640_zpszplsvcav.jpg.html)
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More info on the intake mounted to the engine please?
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I bought the whole setup from a man who had them on m42 engine in a mark 2 ford escort.
I will take some more pics soon as at the moment the engine is difficult to get to.
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Please do! Very interested to see more!
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Am still trying to sort engine here is the nose extension with oil pump pick and now just waiting for key way.
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Neat
So the way you have done this is by making a one piece attachment? That slides over the crankshaft?
Cheers Rohan
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In the pic the nose part was machined off an m40 crank now the diesel crank is going to be machined to the same diameter then a keyway will be cut so all the parts in the bottom pic slide over everything.
The oil pump pick up then the timing chain sprocket with a diesel crank bolt
here is pic of the nose with the oil pump sprocket.
When the block is together will see how much have to deck the block so see about c/r.
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Venom really sorry for delay here is pic of the manifold
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Went to see progress today just a little question please.
I have 90mm crank 135mm rods s50b30 pistons I really hope this is correct?
Do I need to deck the pistons or thicker head gasket and he is asking me about c/r and capacity in the cylinder when at tdc with m42 head.
I have found all this in the past but can not find again I am trying to get the answers before dummy building the engine.
I have m42 ported head with 6mm valves and guides there are no valve springs will s50/52 springs work all so solid lifters or can play safe with standard m44 head.
Only need the key way cut as all together just did not have camara more pics friday?
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Hi
Yes you will need to do your maths with regards to compression ratio.
But you need to do your head first because you need the cc or ml volume of head chamber.
You also need the height of the engine block!
Should be around 212mm
Only then can you work out where you need to deck the Pistons. Or taller head gasket.
Then you can do that and now for the trial build.
As for s50 springs on a m42 should be fine.
Cheers Rohan
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Here is a pic before going to have the keyway cut have used stock diesel crank bolt seemed a bit short so will get the m40 washer and pulley machined a bit so more length in the crank.
The m40 extension cut off the crank and the washer for the pulley will have to drilled out to take the m18 bolt.
Putting engine together to check piston clearance next week.
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Have put engine together today to find have to DECK THE BLOCK 0.5mm
to make the pistons level with the block.
Some measurements
86mm pistons s50b30 they are 0.5mm below the block
135mm rods with 21mm pin new bearings
m47n crankshaft 90mm stroke in the block with the pistons is 90.60mm stroke
I have been looking for a long time to get these answers I know it is easy now but my engine builder friend has not done bmw engines before he likes old ford kent ohv and pinto 2.1.
It has been a mission to get this far have had lots of help on the way thatnks for everybodys help
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mine has a m47 crank and 86mm pistons and had to have bushes in the small ends to take the 18mm pins as the standard rods were used, the block had to be decked but i have no idea how much, once that was done the timing chain also needed work as it was too long. one thing that took time was waiting for the steel head gasket from america because of the bore size. I'm very pleased with the engine, power and how it runs.
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Thanks for your reply
I have watched your youtube videos nice?
I have had a m44 with light tune cams remap exhaust and 4.5kg flywheel was in a 318i touring so really made e36 318is touring sold it and he crashed it so got it back and put engine in compact was a great car really surprised how the compact was I never thought I would have 1 was more of a bet than a real choice.
I then made 2.8 compact that I drive everyday there is good and bad points for both conversions.
I had 328i touring and sold my m44 compact to my mate and the compact was just as quick round London.
To me the m44 was like a 2 stroke as the m52 is more like a 4 stroke in motorcycle terms.
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Hi
The stroke on the tu cranks I believe are 89.6 mm
How are you getting the Pistons 0.5 mm below deck using 140 mm conrods? Most people use the Honda b18c conrods which are 138mm.
Cheers Rohan
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Sorry for my mistake the conrods are from m52b28 which are 135mm I spoke to MM and they said take the 2.8 apart and use the conrods I did take a good engine apart to find the small ends wristpin gudgeon pin are to big?
I would have had to have the small ends re bushed for the s50b30 because they are 21mm as the m52b28 small ends are 22mm.
To make the bushes and put them in would have been the same price as having the conrods made with 21mm small ends.
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Hi
That makes sense now. But b18c are perfect 138mm 21mm and big end bore is good as well just the width varies from 1 manufactor to another, so you have to be a little careful there.
Cheers
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You say b18c conrods are 138mm what crank and s50b30 pistons would you use?
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mt500ish... You need to do your math. You can make anything fit if you know all your dimensions.
I was the one that introduced the B18C rod to everyone. It was the right choice for the 88mm M47 crank with minimal shaving of the US S50/52 piston. You need to measure your head and block after they have been milled flat and then you figure out your piston height because your rods and crank are not going to change.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Quick update done the maths and found that it has 13:1 compression ratio need a head gasket will keep the updates going when I get the headgasket.
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;D I'm glad you did your math. Now you know where you're at and can get it right. That's going to be a thick cometic gasket. I never had luck with them. If you can change anything else I would start there first. Shave the piston and dish it a little bit more?
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Been to collect the crank today and it had a bit of a design change
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So you made a extension that screws in to the m47tu2 crank and then the keyway is cut in?
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Yes had an extension made with nut on the end.
Still trying to sort out how much to take off the pistons to change the 13:1 ratio?
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mt500ish,
It's more than just how much you need to take off the piston. Is your piston .15mm above the deck? IF not then do your math and get there. Then you'll know how much of the piston needs to come off. If the compression is still too high then you'll need to dish the piston some more and cc it and possibly use a thicker Head Gasket.
I did a quick calc of your math using the 138mm rod for you and it shows a compression height (CH) of 28.15mm. That is the minimum you can go. I'm not sure what that makes the S50B30 piston's crown thickness like, but a brand new piston manufactured at 28.15mm CH is ok. Now it depends on dishing the piston and Head Gasket for compression.
211.5 - 45.5 -137.85 = 28.15
135mm rod: 211.5 - 45.5 -135 = 31 This one may be a better option for you. Talk with your builder friend.
Maybe this will help. Just remember this is for an 88mm crank not your 91mm. Plug in your numbers. Also I just read your post and you already decked the block another .5mm so do all your math a couple of times.
Example:
Stroker Crank 88mm
Combination for Rod and Piston with (M44 1.9L Head Gasket)
Compression Height of Stock US S50 Piston is 32.8mm with Honda 1.8L VTEC B18C (GSR) 138mm rod
Desired Compression Height = Block height - (Stroke/2) - rod length
Desired Compression Height = 212mm - (88mm/2) - ((138mm[Honda rod]-.15mm{protruding out of block}))
Desired Compression Height = 212mm - 44mm - 137.85mm
Desired Compression Height = 30.15mm
The DCH is a desirable height.
30.15mm = 212mm - (88mm/2) - 138mm -.15mm
This tells you that your target compression height is 30.15mm and we have enough meat to shave off 2.65mm from the 32.8mm :o
Rod needs small end bushing to be drilled to fit 22mm S50 pin.
To get the right compression of about 10.9:1, I dished the piston about 7cc's and used the M44 HG that was thicker 2.04mm not the 1.74mm.
I hope this helps you. Good Luck. Talk to your builder friend and let him help you with the math part of it. Or find some place online to do the math.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Hi Ralph
Thanks for your reply.
The builder phoned me and said about CR before decking the block and said 13:1 CR will print your reply and show him.
The bigger HG could be a winner
Have m42 head with 6mm valves and solid lifts so will do the maths to find the answer will know more tomorrow.
Thanks again
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mt500ish,
Ok well if it was 13:1 before you decked the block then it is even higher now!
You had really better do your math a few times to get it right and be sure that everything is correct.
Good Luck..
Cheers,
~Ralph
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mt500ish, have you finished working on your stroker?
I was folowing this topic, hoping you will confirm us your success ;) Is it working ok? Any dyno charts?
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I still have the engine in the end the pistons sit about 0-5 mm below the block the engine was put together so need to strip it and deck the block
I have not touched the engine for a long time as am still building the car here is a couple of pictures with this m44 engine installed when the car is done then will put stroker in the car, still sorting rear axle.
I have had the car 8 years now 2 children later say no more
(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/hkwatkin/20171206_130215_zpssb81nndj.jpg)
(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/hkwatkin/20171116_142051_zpspcavfwct.jpg)
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Been to collect the crank today and it had a bit of a design change
How is the extension fixed to the crank ? ???