M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: Frankie on January 10, 2007, 09:06:15 AM
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Well, what are your preferred modifications to your 318is's suspension if thinking about track driving?
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Hmm very broad question.
I try to think of durability and making sure the car can endure the constant trips to redline and the forces exerted in the turns and during braking.
The basics = all rubber bushings and replace bolts and nuts which are rusted out. Double/triple check all suspension and drivetrain components.
Items to inspect/upgrade or replace with stock components = Control Arm Bushings, Tie Rod Ends, Sway bar End links, Shocks, Springs, Trailing Arm Bushings, Sub Frame Bushings, Sway bar Mounts (if you upgrade) Center Support Bearing, Flex Disk/Guibo, brake pads and rotors.
Fluids= Fresh tranny fluid, oil change, coolant flush, brake fluid flush and bled to result in a nice firm pedal.
Hope this helps.
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I would suggest going to the NASA "Spec E30" class rules. Shocks, springs, and bars. There is a ready market for these parts. You'll be legal for Spec E30 and have a pretty good baseline setup for other series and organizations as well.
http://spece30.northamericanbavarianracing.com/
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I would suggest going to the NASA "Spec E30" class rules. Shocks, springs, and bars. There is a ready market for these parts. You'll be legal for Spec E30 and have a pretty good baseline setup for other series and organizations as well.
http://spece30.northamericanbavarianracing.com/
I don't think there's SPEC E30 in Finland :p
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Hmm very broad question.
I try to think of durability and making sure the car can endure the constant trips to redline and the forces exerted in the turns and during braking.
The basics = all rubber bushings and replace bolts and nuts which are rusted out. Double/triple check all suspension and drivetrain components.
Items to inspect/upgrade or replace with stock components = Control Arm Bushings, Tie Rod Ends, Sway bar End links, Shocks, Springs, Trailing Arm Bushings, Sub Frame Bushings, Sway bar Mounts (if you upgrade) Center Support Bearing, Flex Disk/Guibo, brake pads and rotors.
Fluids= Fresh tranny fluid, oil change, coolant flush, brake fluid flush and bled to result in a nice firm pedal.
Hope this helps.
How would you describe the driveability of a stock 318is? I mean that if you change aboce mentioned parts how much would it differ from the orgininal?
To my knowledge the suspensions is quite similar to the E30 m3 so I would imagine that it should be quite good as it is?
The reason for these questions is that I'm thinking about to purcahse a E30 318is as a track-day car with sensible (not minimum) costs. Upgrades would be also sensible e.g new shocks and springs, better brake pads etc.
Is there any area or part that is a must thing to change or upgrade in the suspension when it comes to driveability or in general?
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How would you describe the driveability of a stock 318is? I mean that if you change aboce mentioned parts how much would it differ from the orgininal?
To my knowledge the suspensions is quite similar to the E30 m3 so I would imagine that it should be quite good as it is?
The reason for these questions is that I'm thinking about to purcahse a E30 318is as a track-day car with sensible (not minimum) costs. Upgrades would be also sensible e.g new shocks and springs, better brake pads etc.
Is there any area or part that is a must thing to change or upgrade in the suspension when it comes to driveability or in general?
Drivability of a stock 318iS - I cannot comment as all my cars have been freshened with new aftermarket stuff. I have never replaced all components with stock as it's an opportunity for me to upgrade to what's in a higher performance category than what was originally put on there.
This doesn't mean it doesn't differ if you were to do a "good as new" overhaul with all stock pieces. You will notice the car handles better depending on the overall condition and prior maintenance history. Obviously if the car was worse off prior to the "refresh" it will feel much better than a car which wasn't too far off (not many like this exist, if at all)
E30m3 vs e30m42 suspension - Bigger hubs, 5l ug vs 4 lug, bigger brakes, larger rotors, bigger LSD, Springs and shocks are interchangeable but not the same, offset Control Arm Bushings, Aluminum Control Arms, Different front sway bar anchor points :: s14 has sway bar pick up on strut vs control arm on m42 :: bigger rear sway bar. (This is all I remember off the top of my head). I would say they are not the same.
I think you are on the right track with the right approach. Opinions vary but the list I gave can be used as a guide. If the PO already did the steering rack and tie rod ends, no need to replace them. Control Arm bushings, go with the e30m3 version or other one depending on your desire.
If you have your eye on a particular car you know what to check, if you're still looking don't always go for the cheapest car that is in need of mods, it can sometimes cost you more.
Hope this helps.
G.Luck
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Spherical bearings in all places, solid rear subframe mount, adjustable rear camber and toe in, coil over suspension and so on.. ;)
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I'd start with race springs, solid subframe mounts and new bearings or atleast just go thru the factory stuff get it all back to factory stuff, then possibly swaybars. Start small and get used to the little stuff before going big, get the driving part down perfect before modifying the car too heavily.
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I'd start with race springs, solid subframe mounts and new bearings or atleast just go thru the factory stuff get it all back to factory stuff, then possibly swaybars. Start small and get used to the little stuff before going big, get the driving part down perfect before modifying the car too heavily.
I must agree with this. In the beginning it is more important to "tune" the driver than the car. After you have reached good knowledge of track driving it is time to improve the car. Track laps costs money and it is wise to spend as much it is possible to acquire laps. Laps after laps, thats the initial goal in track driving. If you can't drive, what is the point to get fast car like E36 m3 or spend huge sum of money to improve your car if you don't know how to use them.
Thats' why I'm going to focus on tuning the driver instead of the car. However, it does not mean that I'm not going to do these "sensible" upgrades including new spring and shocks, brake pads and fluids etc.
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I dont agree with you. With stock suspensio tires will worn much faster..
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I don't think there's SPEC E30 in Finland :p
Oh well it wasn't a total loss. I just spent the last hour googling Finland racing . Couldn't find anything specific to E30's but it sure produces some great F1 drivers with rally car backgrounds.
Frankie, what will you be competing against and what do the rules allow.
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Oh well it wasn't a total loss. I just spent the last hour googling Finland racing . Couldn't find anything specific to E30's but it sure produces some great F1 drivers with rally car backgrounds.
Frankie, what will you be competing against and what do the rules allow.
Must be something in the water that produces great drivers and great tuning minds from Nordic countries and the surrounding areas. Perhaps when I start my family I should relocate there :rolleyes:
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I must agree with this. In the beginning it is more important to "tune" the driver than the car. After you have reached good knowledge of track driving it is time to improve the car. Track laps costs money and it is wise to spend as much it is possible to acquire laps. Laps after laps, thats the initial goal in track driving. If you can't drive, what is the point to get fast car like E36 m3 or spend huge sum of money to improve your car if you don't know how to use them.
Thats' why I'm going to focus on tuning the driver instead of the car. However, it does not mean that I'm not going to do these "sensible" upgrades including new spring and shocks, brake pads and fluids etc.
Don't go to the track with an unsafe car. There's almost a catch 22. If you go with a ratty car - you may risk injury to yourself and damage to the car. If you go with an overly modified car - it "may" be too much car for you to handle. If you go with a stock modified car - after a few months and hours in the seat, you will be taking everything off to replace with beefier more advantageous units.
Pick your poison wisely :D
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Don't go to the track with an unsafe car. There's almost a catch 22. If you go with a ratty car - you may risk injury to yourself and damage to the car. If you go with an overly modified car - it "may" be too much car for you to handle. If you go with a stock modified car - after a few months and hours in the seat, you will be taking everything off to replace with beefier more advantageous units.
Pick your poison wisely :D
Of course the car has to be in a good mechanical condition before taking it to track. Of course if money is no object then everything is possible. But with limited resourses I'm going to focus on getting laps with a car with necessary ugrades (mentioned above).
In Finland there is a lot of different classes for rally driving and track race. This is my favourite http://www.historicrace.fi/, little bit different but there lot of beautiful old BMW's restored to compete in this class. Some pictures http://www.kemora.fi/kuvagalleria/album02
Also more information in general http://www.akk-motorsport.fi/english/calendar/
Little info bit. I know that the world rally championship -series (http://www.wrc.com) are not well known in US, but in short, it is the main series for rally driving. Finnish drivers have dominated it in the past. 29 years of rallying and Finnish driver has won it 14 times (French drivers are next with 4 wins). And of course, Kimi Räikkönen is now the lead driver in Ferrari in F1-series for years to come :D
Not bad from a nation which has 5 million people. Hell, it 2 million less compared to how many people live in London!
Well, enough bragging and lets move on! :p
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http://www.m3-e30.de/bibliothek.htm
http://www.mobeck.com/mt/KomplettChassis.asp
http://www.bmwstyle.ru/index.php?mid=manual_tormozae30
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I would love to be in that Van Diemen class. Everybody with the same cars. Just driving and chassis tuning ability to decide who wins. Here's a pic of one my favorite WRC driver's, Michelle Mouton, at speed. Can you believe the lack of toe and camber change with that much wheel travel! She drove the Quattro at the Pike's Peak hill climb in the mid 80's when it knocked 11 seconds off of the overall open record.
http://www.rallye-stars.com/autos/audi/album/mikkola%201000lacs83.jpg
I really like those Historic racers too. In 1989 I had a Volvo 122 with a ex All-Pro series (short track stock car) Chevrolet V6 in it. It lasted about 6 months.
I think a 318is would be most competitive in a close to OEM type class. It's inherent good handling would be a big plus.
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Well, quite off-topic but this is the best rally video ever. It's from the Pikes Peak competition. Driver is Mr. Ari Vatanen (a world rally champion 1981, now a member of European Union's parliament) who took part to this competition by the request of the Peugeot. It was his firtst time and he won it and set a new record.
It's just art!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7895870121884924185&q=vatanen+205
well just alittle bit more of Vatanen http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4978178214381866033&q=vatanen+205
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That is indeed one of the best videos ever! I remember Ari Vatenen and other WRC races of the late 80s and early 90s being my heros on TV. I had no idea he was now into politics.
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Yea, I can assure you guys that you don't want to fly off the edge on Pike's Peak. I've been up there and its a ton more menacing than the video shows.
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New control arms. (and any worn suspension pieces)
New discs and pads
E30 M3 bushings OEM or urethane. (much better steering feel due to increased caster)
HR sport or race (if your daily driver roads are smooth)
Bilstein Sports or Koni Adjustable.
Bigger rear way bar (S&T bars)
TRACK TIME!!!!!!!!!!
I started doing track days with a 318is. Wonderful car. Had a moderate drop and Bilstein Sports. No sways. Offset front bushings. Car was predictable, safe and fun!
Got hooked and built a 325i spec e30 and went racing. Sway bars made a big difference to turn in and transitions.
Until you can string together a couple dozen laps consistently I wouldn't modify much. Certainly no need for coilovers, heim joints, adjustable rear trailing arms, etc.
Go to http://www.spece30.com lots of guys there will help you out.