M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: Frederic318is on January 19, 2014, 02:30:08 AM
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I was just thinking about this and asked myself if there are 6-speed transmissions who fit right onto the M42..?
I am aware that the ratio's would be different, but maybe in combination with the wright differential it is possible to remain the character off the M42.
I'm really curious if anyone has done this or taught it over..
I think it would be a great upgrade, especially if the character could remain in low gears and for the highway you could use 6th gear..
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Yes, any 6spd mounted to an M5x/S5x will work as the bolt pattern is the same. The ratios are usually close to E36 ratios plus an additional overdrive 6th.
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If only I had that in the budget.
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looked up real OEM it looks like a
Getrag S6S 420G out of an E46 M3, and a ZF GS6-37BZ from a 2004 and newer 3 liter BMW inline six equipped BMWs should fit I think you'll need front half of the drive-shaft, and shift linkage from the cars where the transmissions came from. I have seen the 6 speed manual transmissions for BMW M5x, S5x, and N5x on EBAY for under a grand ... The drive-shaft will most likely need to be rebuilt, and re-balanced. While under the car I would try to find the larger 6 cylinder LSD to put in the back. If it's done right you should have no issues putting a well built M42/M44 based engine in the car. I wonder what's the HP/Torque limits of a M42/M44 based build? 325hp? That's what Metric Mechanic has advertised on their website.
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As I know the easiest way is to fit E36 M3 6spd gearbox (expensive). For this you will need to shorten driveshaft.
E46 and newer 2,0tdi 6spd gearbox (cheap and easy to find in Europe) have different splines and pilot bearing is fixed in flywheel instead of crankshaft. In this case you will need adapater for pilot bearing relocation closer to gearbox and custom clutch disc and probably shorter driveshaft.
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Its always fun to figure out what you could do if you actually had the money :) I know I do this daily!!
If the 6spd is going in an E30 you will probably need a custom length driveshaft as the front section will be a unique length. If this is going in an E36 the 6spd driveshaft will fit right up.
The E30 has the 4cyl moved forward in the engine bay unfortunately. The E36 has the M42 and M50 aligned at the rear plane of the engine making trans back parts a direct swap.
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You can always use a M20 based Getrag 260 it has the same overdrive ratio as the six speeds.
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But its lacking the other gear....
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Other than the oo aah factor of having a 6 six speed manual in an E30 what would an extra gear do. Are you tracking, or auto crossing the car?
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If you have an E30 318i/is it has an wide ratio 5 speed made by Getrag if it an manual. If you have a E36 318i/is made before 1995 it's a close ratio 5 speed made by Getrag. I have uploaded a pdf on 6 speeds ... I also cut and pasted manual transmission ratios
getrag 260
1st 3.83:1
2nd 2.20:1
3rd 1.40:1
4th 1.00:1
5th 0.81:1
R 3.71:1
Getrag 250
1st 4.23:1
2nd 2.52:1
3rd 1.66:1
4th 1.22:1
5th 1.0:1
getrag 240
1st 3.72:1
2nd 2.02:1
3rd 1.32:1
4th 1.00:1
5th 0.81:1
R 4.10:1
ZF 320/310
1st 4.2:1
2nd 2.49:1
3rd 1.67:1
4th 1.24:1
5th 1.0:1
R 3.9:1
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I'm hoping my g250 and a 2.93 rear end will make mine more lively in between shifts. I know it's tall but I love around 2600rpm @60mph on the freeway. Overall taller first gear might be interesting with a LTW flywheel. We'll see how it goes.
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Other than the oo aah factor of having a 6 six speed manual in an E30 what would an extra gear do. Are you tracking, or auto crossing the car?
5 normal gears and a heavier overdrive for cruising...
The E30 and E36 have significantly different rear end ratios. I have an E36 ZF trans in my E30 with a steep rear gear ratio (3.73) which is equivalent to between a 4.27-4.44 with an E30 trans. Of course, I wasnt concerned with freeway cruise efficiency!!
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Putting a 2.93 to 1 rear end with a Getrag 250 would give you better highway speeds, and better MPG ...
I'm hoping my g250 and a 2.93 rear end will make mine more lively in between shifts. I know it's tall but I love around 2600rpm @60mph on the freeway. Overall taller first gear might be interesting with a LTW flywheel. We'll see how it goes.
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So you track the car?
Other than the oo aah factor of having a 6 six speed manual in an E30 what would an extra gear do. Are you tracking, or auto crossing the car?
5 normal gears and a heavier overdrive for cruising...
The E30 and E36 have significantly different rear end ratios. I have an E36 ZF trans in my E30 with a steep rear gear ratio (3.73) which is equivalent to between a 4.27-4.44 with an E30 trans. Of course, I wasnt concerned with freeway cruise efficiency!!
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If you want a really stout manual transmission go find a 1982 e28 528e they had Getrag 265 manual transmissions with the removable bell housings made for the early ETA M20B27 engines. They would fit any M20 based engines like M4x, and M5x. You could also find a Getrag Dogleg 5 speed manual that had removable bell housings in the early E24 635csi, or first couple of years of the E30 M20B23 sport models. I think they also came in the E12/E28 M535i cars, and E21 323i sport models.
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Putting a 2.93 to 1 rear end with a Getrag 250 would give you better highway speeds, and better MPG ...
I'm hoping my g250 and a 2.93 rear end will make mine more lively in between shifts. I know it's tall but I love around 2600rpm @60mph on the freeway. Overall taller first gear might be interesting with a LTW flywheel. We'll see how it goes.
My current 3.64 and a .8 OD 5th gear will be about the same as a 2.9 and 1.0 5th. But 1,2 and 3rd will all be closer together. The tighter gear spacing will be welcomed. Ideally if like to find a 3.25 ish but they are a bit hard to come by. Back on topic: 6 speed would be the best of both worlds.
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If you want a really stout manual transmission go find a 1982 e28 528e they had Getrag 265 manual transmissions with the removable bell housings made for the early ETA M20B27 engines. They would fit any M20 based engines like M4x, and M5x. You could also find a Getrag Dogleg 5 speed manual that had removable bell housings in the early E24 635csi, or first couple of years of the E30 M20B23 sport models. I think they also came in the E12/E28 M535i cars, and E21 323i sport models.
M20 and M50/M42 based engines have different bellhousing bolt patterns. The bolts to the block are the same, the rest are not. An M20 trans can work, but judt dont be shocked when only half the bolt holes line up :) Good news is the few bolts that line up carry a majority of the load!!
Yep, my car is just a HPDE/track fun car!
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Do you have an E30 or E36?
Putting a 2.93 to 1 rear end with a Getrag 250 would give you better highway speeds, and better MPG ...
I'm hoping my g250 and a 2.93 rear end will make mine more lively in between shifts. I know it's tall but I love around 2600rpm @60mph on the freeway. Overall taller first gear might be interesting with a LTW flywheel. We'll see how it goes.
My current 3.64 and a .8 OD 5th gear will be about the same as a 2.9 and 1.0 5th. But 1,2 and 3rd will all be closer together. The tighter gear spacing will be welcomed. Ideally if like to find a 3.25 ish but they are a bit hard to come by. Back on topic: 6 speed would be the best of both worlds.
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You would have to find a Getrag 245/11 OO BJ from an E30 323i Sport, or E21 323i Sport. A dogleg Getrag 245/11 OO BJ has similar gear ratios to the Getrag 250, and ZF 320/310. Found a link off Google.
http://www.bmwe21.net/?page_id=124
The only reason I would put a Getrag 265 in an E30 is putting a high hp/torque engine in it. Like a m21, M51, M102, M106, S52 turbo, M6x, or M7x. North American spec 1982 528e with manual transmissions had Getrag 265 with a removable M20 bell housing.
It would be interesting to see a M60 powered E30 4 door still sporting 14 inch bottle caps ...
If I really would smash a €1000 on a gearbox it would be on a E30 M3 dogleg. But then again I would lack the 6th gear :D, but that would be compensated with the sport feeling of the dogleg box.
You say that this dogleg box would fit? what bell house is required to fit a dogleg to a M42?
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Why do think Getrag 265 hold high torque? As I understand nominal max torque for the gearbox is 265Nm? It would be much better to fit gearbox from diesel engine or v8 in this case. In Lithuania lots of people fitting BMW 3,0 diesel gearboxes (GS6-53DZ ) to 2JZ engines because of torque that these gearboxes can take and it is 530Nm and 6 speed gearbox....
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Living in USA the strongest manual transmissions you can get is the Getrag 265 out of M30 based BMWs. It would be nice to find BMW Diesel Manual Transmissions here in the USA. People could always use Tremec T56 transmissions to put in BMWs, but the fab work could get expensive.
Why do think Getrag 265 hold high torque? As I understand nominal max torque for the gearbox is 265Nm? It would be much better to fit gearbox from diesel engine or v8 in this case. In Lithuania lots of people fitting BMW 3,0 diesel gearboxes (GS6-53DZ ) to 2JZ engines because of torque that these gearboxes can take and it is 530Nm and 6 speed gearbox....
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If Getrag 265 is rated for 265 Nm of torque thats not very much. The ZF320 from the later E36 is rated at 320 Nm of torque and is proven to hold much much more.
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I'm doing some research it looks the Getrag model numbers don't represent Nm of torque
They're just numbers ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag
I know that the Getrag 265 5 speed overdrive transmissions have always been a really stout transmission. I have put them in 450 to 500 SAE HP M30 based BMWs have them last for a long time under heavy abuse.
If Getrag 265 is rated for 265 Nm of torque thats not very much. The ZF320 from the later E36 is rated at 320 Nm of torque and is proven to hold much much more.
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I have gearbox from 3 series e90 320i 6speed with m42 flywheel dualmass and 3.45 diff from e36 compact. I have it two years now and the result is very good. I travel 160km at 4000rpm in 6th gear and the other gears are almost the same ratio as the e36 5speed gearbox
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I was thinking of putting a 2.95 to 1, or 3.25 to 1 LSD in the back of my E30 M42 with a ZF GS6-37BZ 6 speed to if there would be any MPG improvement ... It could turn into a gutless wonder, but it would be ready for a OBD1 retro fitted M54B30, or a 2/2.1 liter S/C or turbo M42. At this point it's all a dream until I have some expendable income.
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I have gearbox from 3 series e90 320i 6speed with m42 flywheel dualmass and 3.45 diff from e36 compact. I have it two years now and the result is very good. I travel 160km at 4000rpm in 6th gear and the other gears are almost the same ratio as the e36 5speed gearbox
Is it direct swap or you should do something more?
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I have gearbox from 3 series e90 320i 6speed with m42 flywheel dualmass and 3.45 diff from e36 compact. I have it two years now and the result is very good. I travel 160km at 4000rpm in 6th gear and the other gears are almost the same ratio as the e36 5speed gearbox
Is it direct swap or you should do something more?
yeah details would be nice. I wonder if my dad would notice one less gear in his car >.>
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Anyone with more info on swapping a 6speed gearbox in an m42?
I can get a 6speed from a diesel 4banger, i see that it may work with a dual mass m42 flywheel but i'd rather keep a lightweight version.
If someone has more info :)
Thanks
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also interested into the 320i E90 6 speed gearbox for an M42.
as for Diesel gearbox, they have really bad ratios for petrol engine :-\
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as for Diesel gearbox, they have really bad ratios for petrol engine :-\
Are you sure? Have you checked BMW ratios? ;)
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Interesting thread, and lists a tranny mount you can use:
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=259427
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as for Diesel gearbox, they have really bad ratios for petrol engine :-\
Are you sure? Have you checked BMW ratios? ;)
well regarding these gear ratios for a 320d
1st=1:4.11, 2nd=1:2.25, 3rd=1:1.4, 4th=1:1.0, 5th=1:0.8, 6th=1:0.66 & R=1:3.73
to have something similar to a 5 speed E36 gearbox with a 3,45 diff (without regarding the 6 gear) the diff ratio have to be around 4,27! so to have shorter gear it need 4,45 for example, when 3,73 or 3,91 can be used with E36 gearbox, and 4,45 haren't really easy to find or cheap, especially with an lsd