M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: 318is91turbo on July 04, 2013, 10:46:28 PM
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i just picked up a set of 346 cc injectors and a small garrett gt1752 turbo. im questioning if the stock ecu can handle this at 6 psi. blow through afm with bov before it between it and the turbo. going about the same idea as the stock header build thread on here. anythoughts appreciated. thanks
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Are you talking about using the factory tune or the ecu with a chip?
Wazzu will see this soon and all your questions will be answered.
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factory tune. no chips. considering investing in a ostrich 2.0. been trying to read into what all it really does.
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Stock injectors on Saab 900/9000 1994-1998
345 cc/min @ 3 bar fuel pressure
Static Flow Rate: 31.6 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI = 239.4 g/min = 349 cc/min (+/-4%)
Dynamic Flow Rate 2.5ms pulse width @ 100Hz: 6.68 mg/pulse (+/-6%)
Coil Resistance: 16.2 Ohms (+/-0.35 Ohms)
Physical Dimensions: EV1 Body Type
Connector: Minitimer (Bosch EV6)
the injectors i have.
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I would at least get a chip. Dont cheap out on the most important part!
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I honestly don't know if this would work or not. Im not sure if the AFM can actually read that much airflow. Also I wouldn't use the stock timing map.
All I can really offer is this sounds like a really bad idea and I would never try it or recommend it!
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here is my thoughts.. gt17 turbo with 346 cc injectors. map or maf conversion. which ever i find easiest. rev limiter set to 6 k rpm, 6 psi boost. small intercooler. and be done with it. i want to do it with a tuneable software like ostrich or something tho. so i can expereiment with tuning.
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You're going to get out of it what you put into it. If you're going with shitty (or no) engine management, you won't get good results. At the bare minimum get an Ostrich ROM emulator and a wideband.
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i got the wrong injectors. salvage yard pickin and got 350 cc instead of 240 cc. oops. going back to find 240cc injectors soon. im going wideband for sure. has anyone had any personal experience with ostrich 2.0? is it simple plug and play? i plan on making my own tunes if this is a system capable of it. i plan on attempting a manifold absolute pressure conversion while keeping the afm in line for the air temp sensor. the slight restriction the afm will cause wont bother me. plan on keeping low boost anyways. 5-6 psi. at least till i can afford some bigger number haha. and that could be a while. so this is whats gonna keep me sane while i wait for it. thanks for your comments so far.
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Yes you can tune for the Ostrich. The question is if you have all the definitions for the maps so you know what you are editing.
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that sir is what im studying into. cant be but so hard to do i imagine. its gonna be fun tryin. ill probably find a stock tune and go from it lol.
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Well, good luck. Last time I checked there was not a lot of information on the map definitions. Maybe that has changed now. I would research this before spending money on the Ostrich though.
Getting the stock tune is easy, knowing what values control what functions is the trick!
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As far as I am aware, there are M42 stock chip definitions floating around for Tunerpro, but the proper offsets and checksums are NOT publicly known. The thing is that the actual info needed to really crack the ECU is closely guarded by tuners and it is up to amateurs like us to actually figure it out. So far, I am not aware of anyone that has.
The general idea that some people go with when trying to do a "cheap tune" with the stock chip is to run injectors that flow more in proportion to the amount of boost that they plan to make. 6 PSI means that you will flow ~41% more air, so you will need injectors that are 41% higher flow than the stock 210cc/min ones, so ~295cc/min. The thing is that you will run MEGA rich at idle and any time you are not making 6PSI, and it will be a really crappy way to drive. And you'll burn out your cat right quick, and burn through O2 sensors regularly. A less-bad way to go would be with an adjustable rising-rate fuel pressure regulator so that you can run higher fuel pressure under boost. That will end up being hard on your fuel system and there's no way you are going to get 40% more flow out of the stockers, though.
I know what you are aiming for as I used to think along the same lines when I wanted to do a "broke-assed college student turbo build" about a decade ago. You'll spend more money on the Ostrich, chasing issues and burning through fuel than you will on a dyno if you go the hacked-together route, so I recommend a proper dyno tune. The stock AFM can handle ~205bHP which my 2.1L M42 is built for, and it runs A-OK with the AFM all the way to redline. On 6PSI I doubt that you will have any need for a bigger AFM. I highly recommend putting the AFM before the turbo inlet so that it can accurately measure air input. It cannot account for density changes of pressurized air.
Another benefit of a dyno tune is that you can then read and compare the stock chip to the one you had custom made. That could probably help the M42 community to finally figure out which maps are the right ones (the stock chip has a bunch of different ones for the different global regions the car was sold in), and you'd have a great custom tune to get the most out of your turbo setup.
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so i found these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1G-DSM-4G63-2-0-DOHC-FUEL-INJECTORS-N275H-Eclipse-Talon-/151018860899?hash=item23296cf163&vxp=mtr
if that doesnt show... it its 275 cc dsm eclipse injectors. im thinking about buying some of these. direct replacement im pretty sure. i got the best idea for turbo placement btw.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERFORMANCE-CHIP-1991-1995-BMW-318-E30-and-E36-ECU-/111117120875?vxp=mtr&hash=item19df18b56b
and i found this chip. i havent messaged him yet. but im thinking about seeing if i can get a chip to help smooth things out a bit.
or i was thinking about one of the chips tuned to 93 octane. thats what i run in my car all the time anyways.
all yaw's thoughts are appreciated
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to add another thought to previous post. i was also thinking of the 240 cc injectors and "fine tuning" with a afpr. and i had a thought for a really cheap afpr.
http://www.uniquetruck.com/p-21469-air-adjusting-valve.aspx?affiliateID=10056&gclid=CPPOxs6DrLgCFWUV7AodkxIA8Q
what you think about that^? fittings would be easy. and air is more prone to leak than fuel. plus they are made to stand 160 psi.. vs. the 46ish"psi it would probably be set around. thoughts?
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so this is all ive rounded up. gt1752 turbo. with downpipe. 275 cc injectors. im getting some piping tomorrow. hoping to find a cheap bov for less than 40 bucks local.
im gonna take off my a/c. it doesnt cool anyways and is r12... :( conversion for that soon tho hopefully.
im gonna work on fabrication while im saving for an ostrich2.0. id rather get some computer management of some sort than blow my dd. lol. maybe next week some time i can post some pictures of how im going about mounting everything. the idea is great. and will keep underhood temps down some hopefully. all thoughts appreciated
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Your not the only one designing a turbo setup for 318is, post those picture please.
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look under the exhaust side of your hood. and just think.. hidden turbo. going with the "stock turbo head build" thread. keeping the stock fan. having to delete ac tho.. :/ flex pipe between turbo and header the turbo mounted to the car.tons less stress on the header/head. i havent actually made any cuts or welds yet. im still in the measureing slacker proecess while i wait for my ostrich. could be a month or two. im wanting it before octoberfest. that my goal