M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: scottiesharpe on December 30, 2006, 07:26:34 PM
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I am kind of new to the M42. A friend of mine had a e30 sedan with one and I really fell in love with it. I tinker mostly with my M106 and M88 motors, so the similarity of the M42 to the M88 made me feel right at home.
I began to search craigslist for a 91 318i and I was lucky to find a convertible, so I picked it up. Loving it! It's my daily ride.
My partner and I make performance mods to BMWs and I run the BMWturboperformance.com website.
We have a line of MAF conversion kits for S38/M88, M20, M30 and M106 motors on that web site.
This weekend we made up an MAF conversion to the 318ic and it works extremely well. We used the same design as our M20 kit. The sensor housing is all billet aluminum and mounts directly to the airbox just like our other AFM elimination kits. There are no piggybacks. All the programming is done on the Mot chip and we supply you the chip with the kit. Just remove your current barn door sensor box, slip in the Miller sensor, swap chips and you're done.
No more moving parts, no more barn door!
We can also provide custom tuning chips for mods, and we can tune your car for you if you run high compression, forced induction, etc.
If you guys are interested in an MAF for your M42, let me know and I'll make up more. If you would like a unit made for your car, or you have any questions, just email me and let me know.
(http://scottiesharpe.com/bmw/m42/image16.jpg)
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hey bro def wanna hear some more details and a price and some numbers on addition to performance.
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Any info on pricing, before/after dyno, hardware options etc?
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Not knowing the diff between an eclipse and a cresent wrench puts me at a disadvantage. But, I thought bmwman91 had his ready for market?
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Well I don't know the difference between an eclipse and a crescent wrench either. :)
MAF doesn't really give you more power. You are simply replacing an old fashioned measuring device (door and spring) with a modern measuring device (hotwire). Sure there is some restriction in the air path removed, but it so tiny, the net gains are pretty small.
The real benefit to MAF is that there are no moving parts to wear out and there is no door-on-a-spring to oscillate everytime you slam the throttle open or closed. (This is especially problematic on turbo cars.) SO the signal output is much clearer on the MAF and the ECU likes this a lot. So your drivability will improve quite a lot, especially mid thottle response.
You will notice this even more if you have an old worn out AFM with door hinges that are dragging, a carbon track that is worn out and dusty, and a spring that is getting tired.
We reprogram the Motronic via a chip to read the output of the MAF signal. There are no piggyback boxes, although you can run one if you wish (so you can make changes with your laptop computer - even while the car is running).
The price I expect will be the same as our M20 kit. It's $595. Group buys are welcomed.
Here's a link to the M20 kit. I haven't put the M42 kit on the web site yet.
http://scottiesharpe.com/store/products.asp?id=12
I live in San Jose, so if you are in the bay and you want a look-see, just drop me a line.
Have a happy new year. I'm hoping for a nice day; I'm gonna drop the top on the 318ic and take the wife for a cruise up through wine country!
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$595 for more drivability and better mid throttle response?
$350 for a SMT6 piggyback and you can use anything to measure the load you like, and you can adjust ignition timing as well,
Sorry but your kit is kinda expensive for what the gains are
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You can adjust fuel and ignition timing with just a simple eprom reader/writer.
595 is not too bad. Have you priced a new AFM lately?
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I think the price is competitive. As much as I like the perfect power unit, how can you compare the two? With the perfect power, you'd need to hack apart the standard wiring, hook up a wideband lambda and a laptop and tune to get optimum performance/AFRs that you could get with the much neater solution of a custom chip + MAF combo that is proposed here. Plus you need knowledge and time to do so.
Scottiesharpe, if you were in the UK, I'd pay this and more, provided you could tune to my particular engine (2.1 and ITBs).
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Iīm just saying,, Wideband kit is $274 and often less.
As is with all custom chip solutions they arenīt optimum , they canīt be as they need to fit multiple cars.
I canīt say how much time needs to go into a MAF or a MAP swap on a M42, but I can tell you itīs not all that horrible black magic people think it is.
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Gunni - Yeah you are right. It's not that hard. We have been doing it on the other AFM BMW motors and the results are great. The afm system is the weakest link on many of the 80's era bmw motors. When you get rid of it, you really have a much more modern fuel control.
I guess the advantage is that I have already tuned the chip and you won't have to tune anything. just pop the chip in, swap in the MAF (there are 4 wires that get wired into your old AFM harness) and you are all set.
Tim S - If I get a few guys interested, it will bring down my machining costs and I can offer it a bit cheaper. Unlike my M30/M20 kits, I don't have any experience with the market demand for the M42 kit, although I think this engine was also used in the e36 cars well into the 90's. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong. (This 91 318ic is the newest BMW I've ever owned!!!!!)
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The only thing common between the M42 used on E30's and the M42 used on E36's is the engine block,oil pump and AFM. :) Everything else is different.
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Scottie - surely the power curves will reflect some when you go with a MAF. With the power delivery being altered, the dyno plot just helps to further justify the investment for such anciliaries as there's something visual to show the before and after plots which might even show a difference in the area under the curve.
Not that most on here are dying for such a project as a quick search will show you 2 other people on here are driving m42s with afm deletions and a few with some builds in progress - this gives an indication of the expected demand/supply for our group - but it just helps to better associate the product with value before money is forked over as you didn't provide too much info earlier.
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small question i got old MAF and other stuff but i wounder if i can custom it on my bmw with a chip that one of you might have ...question is would it work and how much ?
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You can adjust fuel and ignition timing with just a simple eprom reader/writer.
:lol
If it were that easy, I would already be doing it as I've had my eprom burner for a few years now. I think you forgot to mention a particular software(or a machine language guru).;)
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You did not happen to have any odd resonance issues between ~2500-3000RPM dod you? Although I suppose we are competitors of sorts, I would be interested to see if others have noticed this on the M42. It got worked out, but it was definitely interesting.
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So many better things I could do for $595
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Gunni - I have combo'd the Perfect Power unit with my M106 Turbo installs and they are a good combo. There, you get what you are talking about - full control over the fuel/timng maps via simple Windows software running on your laptop computer while the car is running. I sell custom implementations of this on my web site as a "Tuning Kit". The maf upgrade is not intended to be a tuning kit, as I have already done the tuning for the m42. It is simply intended to be a replacement for the old fashioned barn door.
Alpine003 - You're right. You do need to know a little bit about binary programming. Tee hee!
e9nine - Yes, you'll get more power. No doubt about it. But surely the power gains are not dramatic. 5-10 hp gains on a 130hp motor is not going to rock the world. Still, it is welcomed!
e30own'er - I'd have to custom tune your car in person, on a dyno.
bmwman91 - I did read your Maf kit exploits on the elctrical board. I hadn't seen it prior to posting my maf kit thing. Mine was done just because I produce these for other BMW motors and having fallen in love with my m42, I wanted to make one for it. I have a very good handle on the velocity curve design for the sensor housing based on my experience. And I have 2 CNC machines in our shop to make MAF housings and other parts. I will say only this: the velocity stack shape and size is very important! :-)
Euro Nation - you are definately right. If your current AFM is in top shape, you will not be well served to plop in an MAF kit. Although I have to admit, it looks great though, in the engine compartment! :) Now I just need to clean up the rest of my engine compartment to match the looks of this new machined part. :-)
If anyone is interested in a combo kit combining the MAF housing and Perfect Power piggyback controller, let me know. I have a good handle on making those things work really well. I didn't do it for my M42 because it is all stock and I do not see myself needing laptop tuning control. However I have this setup on my M88-powered M5 and also on my old 83 745i and it is great.
This is a great board. Lots of good stuff.
My next project is to pull the entire suspention and brakes off the wrecked e30 M3 I have and put it all on my 318iC. Should be great as my shocks are totally gone on the 318. I am bouncing up and down all the way to/from work. I'll keep you posted!!
Happy new year.
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Oh man, what I would give to have some CNC milling centers.......
Yes, velocity stack design is very important! Sounds like you have some pretty good tools at your disposal.
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hey, i purchased the conversion a short while ago...i know you guys are shipping these out mid-march.
i forgot to ask, what kind of fuel and rev limit will the chip have? can i specify what i would like?
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I'm no mechanic, so I need to ask this really dumb question.
Am I able to just throw this in my all stock 318 and go? Or do I have to do a bunch of other weird stuff like do some sort of rewiring or coding? If I can just throw-and-go, I'm definately interested.
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I'm no mechanic, so I need to ask this really dumb question.
Am I able to just throw this in my all stock 318 and go? Or do I have to do a bunch of other weird stuff like do some sort of rewiring or coding? If I can just throw-and-go, I'm definately interested.
http://www.millerperformancecars.com/m42maf.html
yes it is!
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Ordered mine today! Can't wait to get it.
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I just want to give everyone an update on the Miller MAF kit. As you probably know, my car is the M42 test bed for the MAF kit. I haven't had time to really get into the little issues we've been having with programming.
I have been really busy the past six months because my mom has been very ill. (She has made a tremendous come back and it now in rehab!) I apologize to everyone who has been waiting, waiting, waiting for the MAF kit.
I'm still overloaded and very little time to play with the M42. I'm giving my car to Dan for a few weeks because he's coming to the lower 48 for an extended drive to work on some customer's cars. We'll hook up the computer and monitoring equipment inside my 318 for his trip (over 1500 miles) so he can monitor engine functions while he takes his long journey. This should give him time to solve the drivability issues we've been having with the motronic programming.
More news to follow in 2 weeks or so. (I return from visiting with my mom around June 9th, my birthday.)
http://scottiesharpe.com/store/products.asp?id=13
If you have any questions that can't be asked here, you can write me Scottie@millerperformancecars.com
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thanks for the update, congrats / good luck with your mom!
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damn its too bad. I thought i was gona get a free one until his trip cause him to use your car instead of mine:(.
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with 595$ , you can get a complete wiring kit , ecu and Maf from the M44 engine and use it on the M42 engine , my best friend did it on his M42 E36 , and works just fine , without ecu reprograming , dyno and stuff... just changed engine wiring , ecu and afm , with the one he got from a M44 engine...the only thing that does not work is Knock sensor that M44 has , and M42 have not..but still you can put Knock sensors to M42 block and make it work...
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What system? That would be the first piggy back style MAF conversion which work without difficulties. Piggy pack (or ECU as you wrote) just converts MAF volt readings to DME in the same level as original AFM does. I don't know such a system available for BMW E30's but for example Porsche 944 S2 uses this system:
http://www.deutschnine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=porsche-transaxle&Product_Code=D9-944S944S2-MAF&Category_Code=porsche-transaxle-944-turbo-s2-tuning-handling
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so, are there any updates on this unit? Have any of you who stated above that you purchased - have you received it and if so, how did it work out??
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with 595$ , you can get a complete wiring kit , ecu and Maf from the M44 engine and use it on the M42 engine , my best friend did it on his M42 E36 , and works just fine , without ecu reprograming , dyno and stuff... just changed engine wiring , ecu and afm , with the one he got from a M44 engine...the only thing that does not work is Knock sensor that M44 has , and M42 have not..but still you can put Knock sensors to M42 block and make it work...
Can you explain a little further about your above statement? Did your friend use a complete M44 engine wiring harness - or was there a certain harness that was swapped out - or did a harness have to be added/soldered into the existing M42 harness? Please explain more.
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ecu and Maf from the M44 engine and use it on the M42 engine , my best friend did it on his M42 E36 , and works just fine , without ecu reprograming , dyno and stuff... just changed engine wiring , ecu and afm , with the one he got from a M44 engine
Ok after reading it more carefully this is how i understand it:
Take M44 ECU & MAF with complete M44 engine wiring harness.
Remove your original M42 AFM, engine wiringharness and ECU.
Install the stuff you took from M44 to your M42.
All other componets can be bolt on except the knock sensor. Did i got it right?
I am still a little bit skeptical about how does M44 ECU work with M42 engine, after all M44 is 2.0 liter engine.
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I guess Scottie hasn't posted back in this thread in awhile, eh? I know him from the 745i boards, when I was on them a few years ago, with my '85 745i turbo. He had a phenomenal setup for them, back then. I can only imagine what he could/would do for the M42, given the time..
I, personally, want to go Speed Density. One day, maybe I'll start on my SMT6 w/MAP install/conversion.. I want to go turbo, so I'd prefer SD over metered intake system.
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I, personally, want to go Speed Density. One day, maybe I'll start on my SMT6 w/MAP install/conversion.. I want to go turbo, so I'd prefer SD over metered intake system
Been there, will not work properly with Motronic if AFM removed.
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I, personally, want to go Speed Density. One day, maybe I'll start on my SMT6 w/MAP install/conversion.. I want to go turbo, so I'd prefer SD over metered intake system
Been there, will not work properly with Motronic if AFM removed.
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Drat...
Guess I'll have to go some sort of standalone then, eh? prolly for another thread, though..