M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS

DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: alim_h on October 02, 2012, 01:20:15 AM

Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: alim_h on October 02, 2012, 01:20:15 AM
Is this a problem (See attached)?

Any ideas on what happened? The head is off an E36 318, and the rest of the engine is an '91 318is. Could that be it?
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: Geoff on October 02, 2012, 06:55:34 AM
it looks as if it may well leak a lot of oil.    that looks like it might be the result of having the head shaved a couple of times, maybe,  and the corresponding machine work on the cover was not carried out.   if that is the case,  a lot has been taken off the head.
                                                                Geoff
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: Warsteiner on October 02, 2012, 07:45:48 AM
I agree with Geoff. The timing case cover and head are always decked at the same time. You did mention that the two items were from different cars. If it were me.... I would not install it in that condition.

Cheers,
~Ralph
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: monko141 on October 02, 2012, 08:06:46 AM
This is the cause for a lot of oil leakage on m42's from the front profile gasket.  In the Bentley it tells you to put two screwdrivers into the camshafts and pry down and then tighten the bolts.  Notice the bolts for the upper timing cover are not completely threaded and the covers holes have a slight oval to allow for this.
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: alim_h on October 02, 2012, 11:01:55 AM
Thanks for the replies. I'll try to loosen the bolts (but not remove them) on the upper timing cover and then use screwdrivers to pry the cover down as best as i can.

Thanks!
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: deansweet on October 02, 2012, 11:05:11 AM
When I rebuilt the head on mine iS, it was something like this as well and I read as monko141 states to use a couple screwdrivers and pry it to be even, then torque the bolts down...
The replacement rubber seal was waaaaay thicker then the one I pulled out.

The picture needs to be taken from front as well, is it off on the horizontal axis or perpendicular?

-Dean
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: alim_h on October 02, 2012, 11:25:05 AM
Hey Dean,

Not sure what you mean by horizontal vs. perpendicular but the gap is present on both sides where the cover meets the head. So pressing down on it directly from above would solve the problem.
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: bmwman91 on October 02, 2012, 06:15:12 PM
That is normal for an incorrectly installed upper timing cover.

Rather than risk messing up the cams, do it this way.
1) Remove valve cover gaskets.
2) Get some washers & M6 bolts (the upper cover ones work for this)
3) Position the upper cover and loosely install the two top-side bolts to keep it from falling off
4) Slowly and evenly tighten down 4 bolts into the 4 right-most (2 top, 2 bottom) valve cover holes alternating between each
5) This will push the upper timing cover down and compress the outer profile gasket
6) Once the valve cover has forced things to be planar, install the timing case bolts around the thermostat housing and then tighten the two that you had loosely positioned before
7) Remove the valve cover and finish securing the timing cover
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: deansweet on October 02, 2012, 07:17:13 PM
Quote from: bmwman91;116389
That is normal for an incorrectly installed upper timing cover.

Rather than risk messing up the cams, do it this way.
1) Remove valve cover gaskets.
2) Get some washers & M6 bolts (the upper cover ones work for this)
3) Position the upper cover and loosely install the two top-side bolts to keep it from falling off
4) Slowly and evenly tighten down 4 bolts into the 4 right-most (2 top, 2 bottom) valve cover holes alternating between each
5) This will push the upper timing cover down and compress the outer profile gasket
6) Once the valve cover has forced things to be planar, install the timing case bolts around the thermostat housing and then tighten the two that you had loosely positioned before
7) Remove the valve cover and finish securing the timing cover


That would work too! :)
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: Geoff on October 04, 2012, 12:30:23 PM
how did you make out with this issue?      inquiring minds etc etc:)
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: ti_tony on October 09, 2012, 04:43:35 PM
Just bolted my upper cover on and it's a little higher than the head.
Less than 1/16, I used a wood dowl to pry off a cam bolt, was afrald to get up on it to much but that helped to make it workable.
Like deansweet said I think my new gasket was thicker than the old.
This spring after I get some time on it I think I'll use bmw91 trick and see if I can compress it some more.
Title: Gasket
Post by: bigred on October 15, 2012, 10:23:37 PM
I had the same problem, the lower timing cover has a new gasket ontop of it.  This gasket has a 90 degree bend in each corner, the tab was to big for the gasket to lay flat, thus making the upper timing chain cover to be raised.  I cut down the tab to fit properly and use gasket sealer as directed in the manual.  I also seen someone use a screw driver to press the upper timing chain cover downwards, by using the cam sprockets as leverage.  Then tighten the bolts as needed.
Title: Pic of gasket
Post by: bigred on October 15, 2012, 10:50:26 PM
http://www.m42club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2321&stc=1&d=1350359235

Don't look at the arrow, the gasket is below the arrow.  The tab that I was talking about is on the left hand side of the gasket in the corner.  If you zoom in, you will see the gasket's tab.  This is the tab that needs to be cut down.
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: alim_h on October 17, 2012, 02:37:48 PM
I got the head and timing cover to line up!

- Tried using BMWman91's method, but I couldn't torque the bolts after a certain point, the threads in the timing cover may be stripped (another problem). So I wasn't able to tighten it down far enough to move the timing cover.
- Then I went off of Bigred's suggestion of filing down the gasket ends using some sandpaper I had laying around. That got the cover to line up much better.
- Finally I used a screwdriver to gently push against the cams and tightened the timing cover on FTW!
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: bmwman91 on October 17, 2012, 04:17:03 PM
Good to hear that you got it sorted out. It is VERY common to have the valve cover bolt holes strip. I had to put in helicoils into EVERY SINGLE ONE because they all stripped over the course of about 2 years.

And yeah, make sure to use some silicone RTV on the profile gasket ends or they will leak. Heck, you can even apply it from the outside if you clean things first.
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: alim_h on October 19, 2012, 02:44:49 AM
Bmwman91: All 3 bolt holes on the top of timing cover where the valve cover bolts are stripped! :(
Helicoil vs. tapping out more thread for a slightly longer m6 bolt vs. tapping out a bigger bolt. What are your thoughts?
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: colin86325 on October 19, 2012, 08:57:02 AM
Helicoil has worked for me.  It's a very common repair for these cars.
Title: Timing cover and head not lining up?
Post by: irish44j on October 19, 2012, 08:50:19 PM
Quote from: monko141;116374
This is the cause for a lot of oil leakage on m42's from the front profile gasket.  In the Bentley it tells you to put two screwdrivers into the camshafts and pry down and then tighten the bolts.  Notice the bolts for the upper timing cover are not completely threaded and the covers holes have a slight oval to allow for this.


I actually just put my timing cover on today with all new profile gaskets, etc etc. And I was surprised to have the same problem, since I know it sat flush before I took it apart. I ended up using some clamps to press the cover down and sandwich the new gasket better. There is still a small lip there though.

For some reason it didn't even occur to me to use the camshaft trick (since my e30 Bentley has no m42 info, I've been winging it mostly). But now I will to get that extra tiny bit I need....

EDIT: worked great. Make sure to put a pad or towel or something between the screwdriver and the top of the timing cover, so as not to scuff it up or mar the surface. I used some old sparco harness pads :)