M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: bmwman91 on August 12, 2012, 01:58:03 AM
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OK, so just after I fixed my lousy idle on my new motor (big vacuum leak), the car decides to run on 3 cylinders. I managed to limp home with it sounding like a Harley motorcycle to take a look at things. Prior to that, it was running great and I got a good ~80 miles on it.
Spark plug #2 was covered in carbon and wet with fuel. Plugging/unplugging the coil pack didn't seem to make much difference, whereas unplugging any of the other 3 seemed to cause a stall (with throttle held open, can't idle otherwise). Just to be sure, I swapped coils 2 & 3, and it seemed like it followed the coil, sort of. Anyway, I ran all over town and found a replacement coil (I am using a COP conversion) and replaced the suspected bad one. No improvement. I swapped spark plug #2 with a known good one from my old motor. No improvement.
So, I sort of have no idea what it could be. It seemed to be an obvious spark issue since the plug was fouled and wet with fuel. That rules out a plugged injector I think. How about a stuck one? MM provided cleaned/rebuilt ones, so it seems unlikely. The failure seemed to follow one coil, although it was running so poorly that it was hard to tell, and a new one didn't help. Maybe a wire broke in the connector or something, or maybe the DME coil driver died. I am going to try picking up a spare DME and ignition parts from a local member tomorrow morning to swap that stuff on and see if it helps.
Any other ideas? This is really really getting old. At this point, I think that I need a boring, reliable daily driver of some sort, either in addition to, or as a replacement for this car. I have sunk far too much time and money into it, and I am tired of screwing with it only to have it frequently fail me at random times.
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Odd that all this is happening at once, isn't it? Maybe it's just bad luck or coincidence?
I'm betting on a single bad coil and potentially the related coil driver damage. If it followed the coil it can't be a damaged wire in the harness.
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The spark plug wire loom twist and turns several times on my engine. A good way to wreck plug wires. I waited until night, then sprayed the wires with water. Then started the engine for the light show. You can hear and see the sparks jump. Being cheap, I took the wires off and coated them with tire shine. Still running fine! But if you have an internal wire break, you can ohm them out.
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Thanks for the input guys.
bigred, I have done a coil on plug conversion and no longer have the long ignition wires. The coils sit on the cylinder head right above the spark plugs.
Dave, it is hard to say exactly what is going on. The WBO2 sensor takes ~10 seconds to warm up fully, and when the car is misfiring, it will end up running a bit differently once that kicks in and reports a lousy exhaust gas mixture. My dad & I weren't taking that into account & pulling coil connectors shortly after re-starting it, but it SEEMED to follow one of the coils. Replacing it didn't help though, which is odd.
The next steps are to swap in a different DME and to do a compression test. The thing that I forgot to mention is that the engine runs very LOUD now. There is a ton ox exhaust noise, like combustion is taking place in the exhaust system. I think that it is unlikely, but maybe a valve crapped out? Even if that was the case, I would assume that there would still be partial ignition and I wouldn't have found a wet spark plug. Maybe since the exhaust was fully heated when [whatever] failed, the unignited air/fuel charge was being passed down the line to the catalytic converter and exploding. The thing is that the car sat for an hour while I went in search of an ignition coil but still made all the loud exhaust noise, so I don't necessarily think that the air/fuel was igniting in the cat.
Per a member on r3vlimited, the ignition driver ICs in the Motronic seem to poop out with some sort of regularity. I just don't know if a non-firing cylinder can lead to excessive exhaust noise. It would be nice if this was just a bunked ECU.
I am at sort of a loss as of now. This sort of looks like the end of my E30 days. In a way, I hope that there was a mechanical failure in the motor so that I can send it back and negotiate some sort of refund, sell the rolling chassis & old motor cheap and go get a car that I never have to do more than change the oil of. Even if this just turns out to be some electrical nonsense, I don't think that I can ever trust the car enough to take it out for more than errands within 50 miles of home, and them I am stuck with a very expensive grocery-getter. I am really regretting blowing all this money on the new motor when I should have sold the rolling chassis 4 months ago and bought something else. I thought that my fiancee was crazy to tell me to do that back then lol...I guess that I should know by now that she's usually right.
Sorry to be such a downer and all. It's just been too many hours of labor and too much money at this point and I don't know what else to do.
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A dead coil would fail to fire, as you see on the plug. That'd mess up the O2 reading & absolutely cause backfiring in the manifold. Did you double-check the cam timing? I'd assume that MM would build first-class motors, but you never know. Forgetting to torque a few loose bolts is all it takes.
As for the DME...the problems that I've seen isn't from the drivers, per se. It's from the lack of current protection. If/when the coils short internally, the driver FETs happily keep feeding them current until they die. Results are the same regardless. Unfortunately, those Darlington FETs are proprietary Bosch parts. I'm considering salvaging them from later M50 and M44 units on an exchange basis. The EWS-II M44 DMEs are almost worthless, I picked one up for experiments.
I hear you on all that work...frustrating to see all this investment seemingly down the toilet. I suspect you're just burned out. Let it sit for a few days so you can forget the frustration a bit. I usually have to do that three or four times when I get really annoyed with cars & bikes. I'm usually so glad I did - I start thinking with an open mind again. You're not behind the 8-ball. You could likely recoup a lot of your money if you decide to drop the car. Otherwise, just keep plugging away. IMHO it'll absolutely repay itself ten times over.
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Well, I found the problem. For the time being I am keeping details to myself since I have a lot of phone calls to make and I suspect that NOT making the issue public might be my only bargaining chip at this point. I regret to say it, but this signals my exit from the E30 community as I look for a red 4dr Jetta with a 5 speed. It's time for a car that I can trust, as heartbreaking as the thought of not owning an E30 is to me.
I'll keep you guys posted somehow or another, and I will of course still check/post on here. I think that the community is more important to me than the car at this point!
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I hear you on all that work...frustrating to see all this investment seemingly down the toilet. I suspect you're just burned out. Let it sit for a few days so you can forget the frustration a bit. I usually have to do that three or four times when I get really annoyed with cars & bikes. I'm usually so glad I did - I start thinking with an open mind again. You're not behind the 8-ball. You could likely recoup a lot of your money if you decide to drop the car. Otherwise, just keep plugging away. IMHO it'll absolutely repay itself ten times over.
I agree with Dave. You've come a long way since you decided to commit to this project and we're all rooting for you. You're an extremely intelligent guy and I/we have faith you'll figure it out.
Take a break, recharge and get back to basics.;)
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IMHO it'll absolutely repay itself ten times over
I dunno man, $120k would be quite the pay-off lol. I think that getting a refund will suffice since it is enough to get me a nice used car.
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I agree with Dave. You've come a long way since you decided to commit to this project and we're all rooting for you. You're an extremely intelligent guy and I/we have faith you'll figure it out.
Take a break, recharge and get back to basics.;)
Oh, there is zero mystery about what happened. This was the death-blow to my E30 enthusiasm and there is no way to recover from this in anything less than 3 weeks, and I have been car-less for close to 4 months already. It's done, I am sad to say. I appreciate the encouragement, and normally I would be receptive, but the situation is now in the "ridiculous" section of my book!
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Don't take this as some sort of covert knock on Metric Mechanic either. They have been very polite to me and great to talk to during the build. The issue I had this weekend may well just be one of those one-in-a-million things, and I do not hold it against them. Now, how they handle things in the following days will determine how much information I post across various forums about my experience. Based on prior interactions with them though, I think that everyone will reach an amicable agreement.
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I don't know that I'd go from your e30 to a VW and hope for better reliability and access to cheap parts.
I understand your pain but read over all the times people mention regretting having sold their e30. It took me a year to get mine running to the point that I use it now for my daily driver. I do expect it to break at any moment, but that is true for pretty much any 6 year old or more.
I'm pressured pretty much every day to sell mine for something new but I can't imagine anything else that I'd enjoy as much.
Besides, if you don't get it fixed, none of us will ever be able to get our wive's to approve a MM motor. :)
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Haha yeah, I know deep-down that the "right" choice is a Civic or Corolla if I want a car that I never need to do more than change the oil on. My fiancee's 2003 Civic that she bought new in 2003 has about 170k miles on it...has only cost her $2500 in maintenance. $600 for a timing belt change (inc. labor) and ~$1900 for all new shocks & struts (inc. labor). I spend that on the E30 in a year, easy. A VW...parts aren't any less expensive, but the goal would to buy one that doesn't need them all the time. A few friends have Jettas with 100k miles on them and they have been totally trouble-free. They are turbocharged ones too. As much as I would like the power, I would probably avoid a turbo model since those always lead to costly repairs down the road.
I know that I will miss the E30, and probably have days where I regret parting with it. It is a great little car, and basically nothing newer than it has the same feel. At the same time though, I just can't drive a car that I can't trust anymore. Really, there has not been a single time that I started it in the last 2 years where I wondered if that was going to be the time that it was going to strand me (and it has a few times).
I sort of painted myself into a corner here. Ignoring core charges, the cost of the engine was $12k. It was a "make it or break it" decision when I did it. Unfortunately, it just isn't going to work out and that was all of my disposable cash. I now need that money back so that I can use it to get a newer, more reliable car. If I had a house and a garage to keep a shell, I might consider doing that and rebuilding the old M42, but I would have just done that in the first place if I had a garage. Instead, the broken car has been sitting in my parents' driveway for 4 months and I have a nice 20 mile bike ride whenever I need to go work on it (my apartment does not allow car projects lol). If I had just gone with a $3k rebuild locally or something, then I could consider just having it fixed. But, I am getting married in 2 months and have been totally neglecting that because of the car. I also do not want to impose on my parents any more than I already have been.
My priorities have shifted a lot in the last few years, and there isn't really room for an unreliable old German car. The thought of parting with it literally makes me cry; it is the exact same feeling I have had when I had to take aging pets to the veterinarian to be put to sleep. You really don't want to and it kills you to do it, but you know it is the only right choice. It is especially hard to part with it since it is the basis for my user name across many forums, I have made tons of friends through the E30 community and the car truly is responsible for my career in engineering in that it got me interested in mechanical stuff and drove me pretty deep into electrical engineering.
Now, there is one possible "happy outcome." My sister drives an E36 318iS. The engine is good, but the car itself is a piece of crap. I am considering giving her the chassis and helping her swap her engine into it. I think that I would just need to swap intake manifolds, right? I would much rather give the thing to a family member than sell it to a stranger. I am not sure where I will find the time to do this, but it would be worth it to me.
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Bummer about the issues!
FWIW I have owned a few VWs and Audis, and all I can say is I would be embarassed to say I was an engineer for that company. Very poor quality in pretty much every aspect besides styling.
I sold my 2004 A4 Avant for a 2004 325i and could not be happier. The e46 is a great daily driver IMO. Just something to consider.
The engine management in the e36 318 is different. Not sure how easy you can swap one for the other, especially if you get rid of DSIA. The maps would be way off.
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Selfish interest on my part, I spent some time this morning going over some of your how to articles this morning, sleep on it.
I had an 86 GTI and it was a nice car, BMW like in feel really, if BMW did FWD. That was about the last generation to have any soul. I guess I'm an anti safety kind of guy but that was about when all cars lost their soul.
Besides, I need for you to finish that MAF conversion kit. :)
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Haha well, I am still planning to work on the MAF conversions. I'll keep you guys posted on that.
How is the reliability of the E46? They don't seem to get amazing mileage by any measure, but are they mostly hassle-free?
I agree that no new car has the same feel / soul to it that older German cars do. That will be sorely missed. Unfortunately, I can't deal with the other compromises that it seems to come with.
I talked to my father briefly, and we may try to keep the car in the family. I bet we can get the old M42 rebuilt for $1-2k to stock specs, doing much of the work ourselves. If he can convince my mom to have a non-running car sitting around for a few more months, that is..... I will just give it to him or my sister and let them pay registration & insurance. They will let me drive it from time to time I am sure.
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A number of my friends have had e46s for years with no real issues. I have had mine for 6 months, bought it at 100k miles. All I do is put gas in it and change the oil. Its nice for a daily. Its no e30 but its still a nice driving car, its quiet, my wife does not complain about it being old, smelly, and noisy ect.
Something worth looking into at least.
I rebuilt my M42 doing a backyard refresh of sorts. Barely cost me anything and the car runs awesome. My track instructor even commented on how nice the car was.
Depending on your situation, work through the bugs and I am sure it will be solid for a long time. Assuming nothing mechanical is toast on the rebuild.
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Alright, I am going to give this a couple of days of thought. I can't pull the motor to ship it back any sooner than Saturday, so I have no choice but to wait anyway!
The issue is a partially seized exhaust valve, at least as far as I can tell. A mirror and flashlight seem to show that the rear exhaust valve for cylinder 2 isn't closing fully. It is so oily & dirty in there that it is hard to tell. Once I pull the motor it will be easier to tell what is actually going on. At this point both MM and I are in disbelief that this could happen and they are committed to doing right by me. If this somehow were to end up being my fault, then god help me lol. I certainly do not recall dropping any screwdrivers in there!
I have a really great group of friends, family and a very understanding fiancee. So, I think that I can keep the E30 without completely pissing off everyone that I care about. I will be talking with MM about a repair, and I hope to hell that I get many years of irresponsible driving fun out of this car thereafter. I assume it will take a month with cross-country shipping 2 ways and all, but I don't really need a car on a daily basis, and I have been 4 months without so what's one more?
So, wish me luck! I may have overreacted a bit initially...the disappointment was crushing given that I have dreamed about this motor for 6 years. I am sure that it will be fine, MM is THE name in performance BMW engines and I am willing to trust them with this.
Thanks for the support guys!
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Thats the spirit! You will sort it out I am sure. The guys at MM are standup dudes too so I feel things will go well from that end too.
Wish you lived closer, I would be itching to get my hands dirty solving this problem for you.
When its all over, you will be glad you stuck with it.
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I absolutely believe you are making the right choice for the situation you are in. Thanks for taking us along for the ride.
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curious to see what was your outcome? hopefully it worked out cuz i want to hear your experience with the mm engine
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I got the engine pulled, stripped and onto the pallet yesterday. It is definitely a stuck exhaust valve. Jim over at MM has a few theories about why, and assures me that it will be fixed and never happen again. There seem to be a lot of small aluminum shavings in the oil so I ask them to pull the bottom end and timing case apart to back flush all of the oil passages.
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damn, whats the turnaround?
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Sorry to hear about the issues you're having. I was really looking forward to seeing some photos/video of your new m42 running. Hopefully everything gets straightened out and you can continue to enjoy the e30, sorry that it will be another couple of months before everything is worked out.
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damn, whats the turnaround?
About a week to get from CA to MO, 7-10 working days to basically build me a new head (maybe a day or two more because of my request to disassemble the bottom end and timing case to flush the oil passages), and a week to get it back. So, around a month. I have been without a car for 4 months as it is, so 1 more won't really make a difference.
Sorry to hear about the issues you're having. I was really looking forward to seeing some photos/video of your new m42 running. Hopefully everything gets straightened out and you can continue to enjoy the e30, sorry that it will be another couple of months before everything is worked out.
I'll get photos up when the new new engine is back. I am sure that MM will correct whatever it is that went south and I will have an engine that I cna beat the crap out of for 200k+ miles.
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Wow, I'm really sorry to hear about all of this. This is the kind of ordeal that can bring about that kind of reaction to where you want to just give up on the car. I've been there before. But I think you'd regret selling the thing, and it sounds like they're going to make good on the deal and you'll still have the chance to own something special.
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Good to hear that this is closing in on resolution. I feel for you - I think you've made a great choice, and we're all pulling for you...
Great to hear that MM stands by their work. I've always thought very highly of them since they keep no secrets. It's amazing that a car this old and this cheap can have so many great specialist vendors!
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holy moly, what a saga..I hope it works out for you, nothing more irritating than a brand new expensive motor that wont run. I once had a similiar thing happen with the rebuild of the cylinder head on my 64 sprite..I specced these expensive silicone bronze valve guides, which made the exhaust valve on one cylinder stick, turns out they need an extra couple thousanths of clearance compared to stock guides. these things happen...
good luck,
Geoff
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Thanks for the support guys. I'm sure that they will have interesting stuff to find when they receive the engine. It sounds like everyone there is extremely curious about what went wrong since this sort of thing seemingly never happens.
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OK, so MM got the engine and pulled it apart. The problem was a broken valve spring! They are doing some aggressive failure analysis and working with the spring manufacturer to understand why and how it happened. It's a shock to them and they want to have a 110% understanding of this since they use thousands of these springs across almost all of their 4 and 6 cylinder engines.
So as of now, it looks like neither they nor I are to blame. Neither of us made any mistakes as far as we are aware, and it may well be one of those statistical realities of life that I got the one-in-a-million bad valve spring.
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im glad this seems to be working out in the end ;)
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Glad to hear they are fixing the problem. Also glad to hear they are researching the cause of failure, thats important.
Its not common for valve springs to break, but not uncommon either. Just a bummer it happened to you.
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OK, so MM got the engine and pulled it apart. The problem was a broken valve spring! They are doing some aggressive failure analysis and working with the spring manufacturer to understand why and how it happened. It's a shock to them and they want to have a 110% understanding of this since they use thousands of these springs across almost all of their 4 and 6 cylinder engines.
So as of now, it looks like neither they nor I are to blame. Neither of us made any mistakes as far as we are aware, and it may well be one of those statistical realities of life that I got the one-in-a-million bad valve spring.
I'm using non-beehived dual high tension springs, with steel hardened retainers with SS 6mm +1 valves. Lots of track days and not a single issue so far. However I know this is an issue which is completely random and does actually happen.
You would be surprised my dad's old stingray had a rebuild and soon after he lost a valve spring. Same issue just a random freak occurrence break..
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OK, so update time.
I believe that another spring has gone bad. I was driving home from the store on Saturday and the car suddenly began exhibiting the exact same symptoms as when the first valve spring died. I have not done any investigation yet, and won't be able to until I get back from a business trip in a couple of weeks. So far though, it would seem to be a repeat failure.
This morning I spent some time on the phone with Jim at MM. I will be shipping them my head for a full repair (crossing my fingers that there is no piston or cylinder damage). As of now, they say that they are dropping Ferrea as a supplier because it would seem that there are some serious QC issues. Lightning striking twice is enough evidence for them to figure that it is best to go back to the proven dual-spring setup that they have used on race engines for decades. I have their assurance that they will be tossing out all of the beehive springs that are in the head now and replacing them with the same dual-spring setup that they have used without issues for 35 years (can't remember the supplier).
So, as of now I need to pray that the damage is only to the spring and valve. If I have something that looks like this guy's problem, I am going to be very sad.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3010518&page=2
I am also looking for another car as of now. This E30 is not doing it for me anymore. A used Civic or Accord is what I am after, hopefully under $10k. I just want to put the key in and go without having to think...I have spent way too many years driving a car and just wondering every moment if it is going to strand me!
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Jeeze man. I wonder if Ferrea has been outsourcing to China?
Anyway, best of luck with getting this resolved!
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Wow thats crappy about the springs! Good to know for future reference though.
I have a 2004 325i sport w/manual. Its been a fantastic daily driver and does not cause me issues.
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So, this will be my first "head job". Getting it off is easy. As for putting it back on, what are things to watch out for? Does the M42 use dry head gaskets, or do I want to use sealer (maybe I should ask MM what they recommend)? I assume that the torque procedure in the Chilton's guide is correct, too.
There is also some confusion about which injectors I am running (sort of a LOL situation at this point). MM ordered the injectors that go with this engine and chip and had them sent to me months and months ago. The second time I was putting the engine back together, I noticed that one was a single-pintle type, and the other three were 4-pintle types. All were red-topped and had "24" inscribed on them. Well, I noticed that I had been getting crappy gas mileage, and that it smelled really rich at idle. I asked MM about it and their tuner's response was, "that's impossible!" (regarding the injectors I described). So, it sounds like I have been running the wrong injectors lol! Being that they said that the stock 19# ones were juuuuust adequate for the engine, I would figure that ~22# ones would be the right size. I guess too big is better than too small in this case (running rich won't melt pistons). Considering how well it ran with the wrong injectors, I REALLY want to see how it does with the right ones!
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So, this will be my first "head job". Getting it off is easy. As for putting it back on, what are things to watch out for? Does the M42 use dry head gaskets, or do I want to use sealer (maybe I should ask MM what they recommend)? I assume that the torque procedure in the Chilton's guide is correct, too.
There is also some confusion about which injectors I am running (sort of a LOL situation at this point). MM ordered the injectors that go with this engine and chip and had them sent to me months and months ago. The second time I was putting the engine back together, I noticed that one was a single-pintle type, and the other three were 4-pintle types. All were red-topped and had "24" inscribed on them. Well, I noticed that I had been getting crappy gas mileage, and that it smelled really rich at idle. I asked MM about it and their tuner's response was, "that's impossible!" (regarding the injectors I described). So, it sounds like I have been running the wrong injectors lol! Being that they said that the stock 19# ones were juuuuust adequate for the engine, I would figure that ~22# ones would be the right size. I guess too big is better than too small in this case (running rich won't melt pistons). Considering how well it ran with the wrong injectors, I REALLY want to see how it does with the right ones!
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I can only think that the fabled MM company is experiencing some life altering changes, maybe their suppliers, management, build crew, whatever, something has changed. How can such a well regarded company have so many screw-ups on one motor, and a dam expensive one at that? They screwed up not just your motor, but your attitude, and your love for the e-30 as well. I dont know what to say, brother, except that I feel bad..
Geoff:(
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Sorry to hear that you're having all these issues! Running a larger injector is not a bad thing other than that they should all be of the same said type, make sure that they all actually flow nearly the same, and that the tuning is exactly meant for those injectors. Running too rich will wash down your cylinders and decrease your octane and cause havoc for your tune. I'll be running 24lb inj's in my set up as well. Your spring condition could be as simple as some sort of harmonics in the motor that they're not agreeing with.
One thing that you have to remember is that this is not a proven said up yet!! Yes there are 2.1L motors running around here and there BUT they are all different!! There is nothing standard about any 2.1L that I have ever read about, whether it be piston choice, inj's, to AFM or not to AFM is the question, cams, exhaust, to port the head or not, etc... etc... YOU can't expect a set of inj's and chip sent to you to be perfect for YOUR motor, UNLESS the motor was installed in a car and tuned. Then that would be your tune and your tune only. Anytime you change one parameter of the motor, it should be retuned. I'm not saying that it won't run, it just isn't optimal for that motor anymore.
When chips and/or inj. set ups are sold off the shelf they go off of a standard baseline. Usually a stock motor, or X cam on the intake an Y cam on the exhaust or what have you, OR even an upgraded this or that can be the norm but it's still off of a baseline engine. These set ups are usually in a car and tuned specifically for those upgrades within a safety range so that they can be mass produced. Let's think about that for a moment......How many 2.1L or stroked M42's are REALLY out there? Do you think that any of them are the same? I highly doubt it. I know that mine is like no other out there.
You've taken such great care of your car from add ons to changes to maintaining it for daily use for how long??? Given that you just made a major change that is not proven yet should not discourage you. You are one of the pioneers as to how and how not to do these builds. Yes it sucks because it takes time away from you and your car and puts undue stress in your life, BUT we all know that there is still lots of love in that car that YOU put into it! Don't let a measly spring get your blood pressure out of sorts. Go sit in the drivers seat and just imagine what could be......
MY suggestion is......get your head fixed and prepped with whatever spring set YOU feel comfortable with. Whether you go back to the dual set up or whatever. Put the head back on. Find a GENUINE tuner near you, or take a road trip on a trailer and have your car tuned properly. You will then have piece of mind and also your most awesomest, funnest, rad M42 daily driver back and will forget what it took to get you there.
Good Luck with whatever you decide.....
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Guess the 36# i have in my engine are probably a little over sized...but 25mpg average
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You've taken such great care of your car from add ons to changes to maintaining it for daily use for how long??? Given that you just made a major change that is not proven yet should not discourage you. You are one of the pioneers as to how and how not to do these builds. Yes it sucks because it takes time away from you and your car and puts undue stress in your life, BUT we all know that there is still lots of love in that car that YOU put into it! Don't let a measly spring get your blood pressure out of sorts. Go sit in the drivers seat and just imagine what could be......
MY suggestion is......get your head fixed and prepped with whatever spring set YOU feel comfortable with. Whether you go back to the dual set up or whatever. Put the head back on. Find a GENUINE tuner near you, or take a road trip on a trailer and have your car tuned properly. You will then have piece of mind and also your most awesomest, funnest, rad M42 daily driver back and will forget what it took to get you there.
Good Luck with whatever you decide.....
Cheers,
~Ralph
Yeah seriously man....
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I can only think that the fabled MM company is experiencing some life altering changes, maybe their suppliers, management, build crew, whatever, something has changed. How can such a well regarded company have so many screw-ups on one motor, and a dam expensive one at that? They screwed up not just your motor, but your attitude, and your love for the e-30 as well. I dont know what to say, brother, except that I feel bad..
Geoff:(
I think that when I placed my order, it was during an unusually "busy" time for them. MM is a team or 4-6 people. From talking to them, they are a very close group, basically family to one another. Friends I have talked to that have had engines built for other makes of car have ALL said that almost every engine builder they have dealt with is "great at building engines, not so great at running the business." Despite the screw-ups, MM is at least 100% behind me on this. Knowing what I know now, I could have manage them a little differently. My usual "hands-off" approach to things was not appropriate here. If I send them nagging emails with bullet lists of what I need done, it gets done fine. My suspicion is that they would not have these issues any longer if they doubled their staff, but I can see how they want to keep things small so that they have tight control over their builds.
Despite the "oopses" with them, I have a hard time getting mad because they are genuinely good people. At this point, I have to assume that they have burned through their margins with my engine and are just putting money into it to make it right for me. They are going to re-burn the chip and hand-select the injectors this time around, too.
Sorry to hear that you're having all these issues! Running a larger injector is not a bad thing other than that they should all be of the same said type, make sure that they all actually flow nearly the same, and that the tuning is exactly meant for those injectors. Running too rich will wash down your cylinders and decrease your octane and cause havoc for your tune. I'll be running 24lb inj's in my set up as well. Your spring condition could be as simple as some sort of harmonics in the motor that they're not agreeing with.
One thing that you have to remember is that this is not a proven said up yet!! Yes there are 2.1L motors running around here and there BUT they are all different!! There is nothing standard about any 2.1L that I have ever read about, whether it be piston choice, inj's, to AFM or not to AFM is the question, cams, exhaust, to port the head or not, etc... etc... YOU can't expect a set of inj's and chip sent to you to be perfect for YOUR motor, UNLESS the motor was installed in a car and tuned. Then that would be your tune and your tune only. Anytime you change one parameter of the motor, it should be retuned. I'm not saying that it won't run, it just isn't optimal for that motor anymore.
When chips and/or inj. set ups are sold off the shelf they go off of a standard baseline. Usually a stock motor, or X cam on the intake an Y cam on the exhaust or what have you, OR even an upgraded this or that can be the norm but it's still off of a baseline engine. These set ups are usually in a car and tuned specifically for those upgrades within a safety range so that they can be mass produced. Let's think about that for a moment......How many 2.1L or stroked M42's are REALLY out there? Do you think that any of them are the same? I highly doubt it. I know that mine is like no other out there.
You've taken such great care of your car from add ons to changes to maintaining it for daily use for how long??? Given that you just made a major change that is not proven yet should not discourage you. You are one of the pioneers as to how and how not to do these builds. Yes it sucks because it takes time away from you and your car and puts undue stress in your life, BUT we all know that there is still lots of love in that car that YOU put into it! Don't let a measly spring get your blood pressure out of sorts. Go sit in the drivers seat and just imagine what could be......
MY suggestion is......get your head fixed and prepped with whatever spring set YOU feel comfortable with. Whether you go back to the dual set up or whatever. Put the head back on. Find a GENUINE tuner near you, or take a road trip on a trailer and have your car tuned properly. You will then have piece of mind and also your most awesomest, funnest, rad M42 daily driver back and will forget what it took to get you there.
Good Luck with whatever you decide.....
Cheers,
~Ralph
Thanks Raplh. I do wonder how many calculations BMW may have done when they initially designed the M42, in terms of spring resonances and their relationship to the cam ramp angles and duration. I can see how spring selection may be far more than just picking the pre-load and travel allowance. The weird thing is that MM said that they have never seen a failure with this spring until now. Assuming that is true, then this must be a supplier quality issue. When the first one broke, the supplier recommended that they use ~230lbs of pre-load rather than the 160lbs that MM usually uses because of "coil resonance". It sort of sounds like BS to me, and MM agreed (aside form the fact that 230lbs would wear the hell out of the lifter heads & cam lobes). From reading around, it does sound like cams with a very aggressive ramp angle can be spring-killers, but I do not believe that my cams are ramped all that aggressively.
I do agree with you that I might want to look into a custom tune. The chip MM sent with the injectors was tuned on a 2.1L M42 at some point, but not mine specifically. It does sound like their 2.1L M42 build is "standard", but I take it that you believe that no two are REALLY the same enough to use a single chip?
As of now, my wife is stressing out about this because I spent a lot of money on the car and she feels like it is a big waste since it keeps breaking. We are looking at buying a house this year, so I can understand her aversion to "wasting money." At the same time, she doesn't think I should buy another car until I fix and sell the E30...which does sort of leave open certain possibilities lol. As of now, I think that the optimal course of action is to get HER a nicer newer car than her 2003 Civic LX, then we keep the Civic as the dependable/beater car, and maybe then I can also keep the E30. Regardless of what happens with the E30, my wife and I need TWO reliable cars. The E30 will never fall into that category, and I am sort of a dummy for thinking that it ever would lol. "Reliable" to me means "going 12 months without having to pull the timing case covers", but I am starting to see that my definition has sort of been shaped by owning an E30 for 12 years haha.
Guess the 36# i have in my engine are probably a little over sized...but 25mpg average
Wow. Well, I suppose that you never have to worry about burning them up with too high of a duty cycle!
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It is good to hear that they are resending the injectors. Given your situation that was the only correct response. I was disappointed when I saw that you wrote the tuner had replied with just, "There is no way that could happen".
I understand your wife's concern but with all the things you have done to your car, once the engine is straightened out it will be as reliable as any other 10 to 12 year old car you pick up. My 91 318is since I have gotten it running half way correctly as required no maintenance other than brakes for nearly two years. There are still a lot of things I could do to it, but all of those things would be true of any car more than 8 years old.
Before you know it you will have kids and a minivan (both good things) but as into cars as you seem to be, driving something you don't love will eat at you and probably won't be good for those around you.
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The tuner's "that's impossible" comment was one that the tuner made to their admin. I think that it was more of an expression of disbelief than anything...they explicitly asked me to send them the injectors and chip because they are trying to figure out what I got sent!