M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: vjlax18 on November 17, 2006, 06:01:30 PM
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So I've heard that E36 lifters will drop right into the M42. If that's correct then there are VW solid lifters that would work also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270052374547&rd=1,1
That's a link to someone selling the VW lifters I think.
Any thoughts? My M42 will be turbo'd and used in club racing in my E30 clubracer.
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At 59 grams plus the weight of the shim they are heavy. If you are planing on spinning your engine to beyond 9k then the shims will get kicked out as well. If you are trying to save weight then get the hydro lifters from four seasons racing which weigh like 48 grams and even with the oil will be less than than lifter and you dont need a different cam profile.
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so has anyone actaully used the VW lifters?
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What would be a good source for aggresive cams and solid lifters for the M42?
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http://vacmotorsports.com/
expensive, but talk to the dudes there...
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dino do you have any more info on the vw lifters? has anyone tried them? is the oil passage at the same level?
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I have not as of yet used them but I will be using them for my motor. As for the oil passage the oil supply goes into the lifter through a ring around the lifter so no mater where the lifter is in the bore it will get oil. Remember the lifter is going up and down as oil is trying to get in it. There should be no problem.
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As for the oil passage the oil supply goes into the lifter through a ring around the lifter so no mater where the lifter is in the bore it will get oil. Remember the lifter is going up and down as oil is trying to get in it. There should be no problem.
That isn't how it works. The oil galley feeds the lifter pressure to keep preload on the cam while on the low side of the lobe. As it rolls onto the lobe the galley on the lifter is seperated from the galley in the head blocking the oil into the lifter. Since oil doesn't compress the valve opens instead of squishing the lifter.
In other words... oil galley height matters. I have a bunch of VW lifters here. I do mean a BUNCH. If someone wants to measure an M42 lifter (with pics so we're measuring the same stuff) I can do a VW lifter.
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yeah thats what i was trying to say
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In other words... oil galley height matters. I have a bunch of VW lifters here. I do mean a BUNCH. If someone wants to measure an M42 lifter (with pics so we're measuring the same stuff) I can do a VW lifter.
overall height 1.021"
OD 1.376"
height from bottom of lifter to bottom of passage groove .380"
from bottom of lifter to bottom of oil hole .422"
groove width .084"
oil hole diameter .097"
Anything else needed? I can get more accurate measurements when I go back to work on tuesday. All I have at home is a crappy old dial caliper
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wait....why would you measure from the bottom
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So I've heard that E36 lifters will drop right into the M42. If that's correct then there are VW solid lifters that would work also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270052374547&rd=1,1
That's a link to someone selling the VW lifters I think.
Any thoughts? My M42 will be turbo'd and used in club racing in my E30 clubracer.
Grrr.. Just spent about ½ an hour writing a reply, just to have explorer crash.. How come it never crashes when i'm just browsing websites with nothing invested!!!!
I dont feel like rewriting the response, but to be just a bit productive..
Study this image from the Schrick Catalog.
As resume of what i wrote:
Shim-on-top: Waste of time on M42, You need to disassemble almost all the valvetrain to adjust anyway. Due to design of engine.
Shim-Under: Only go (Opinion), as you need to disassemble pretty much all the valvetrain anyway, you might as well go with the best solution. It's often the most expensive setup though. But theres nothing mystical about it
Possible suppliers: Schrick, Catcams, Motorsport.. Etc.
Metric mechanic made spacers like the schrick i just provided partnumbers for. Only difference being that the MM version accepts small adjusting pads from the E46 engine. (My reasoning from the images of the catalog)
The schrick spacers are ~8€ a piece. So you end up with a pretty cheap setup!! But perhaps a bit heavier than the dedicated lifters. But you have to decide when enough is enough.
I chose some lightweight dedicated from Catcams, which is a good product. But i suppose with deeper pockets i could have found even lighter lifters. But is that really needed on a stret engine ??
Also, I have to ask as i simply have very little knowledge of the consepts and application of forced induction.. Aren't it unusual to have very high reving FI-engines ? Dont they almost always operate in a relatively low RPM range.?? So won't you be okay with Hydraulic lifters?? If this is the case i would recomend against changing over, and just use the stock lifters and get on with the project :-)
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overall height 1.021"
OD 1.376"
height from bottom of lifter to bottom of passage groove .380"
from bottom of lifter to bottom of oil hole .422"
groove width .084"
oil hole diameter .097"
Anything else needed? I can get more accurate measurements when I go back to work on tuesday. All I have at home is a crappy old dial caliper
The depth of the plunger from the bottom of the lifter would be good to know. Eyeballing it says ~.280"
Everything I've compared so far is exactly the same.
A VW 034 109 309AD weighs 64 grams both in new in baggie form and used out of an engine. There are 'lightweight' versions. The part number slips my mind but I'm sure I'll figure it out tomorrow. I also heard of someone using some out of a Volvo engine that were supposed to be lighter. A quick search on Ebay found some shim-under bucket solid lifter conversion lifters for VWs that would work in an M42.
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shouldnt it be measured from the top though since thats what the lifter rests on
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The depth of the plunger from the bottom of the lifter would be good to know. Eyeballing it says ~.280"
.2685"
Your eyeball might be a bit off :P
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shouldnt it be measured from the top though since thats what the lifter rests on
If the height is the same then all points will be the same lifter for lifter regardless of what end they were measured from.
.2685"
Your eyeball might be a bit off :P
At midnight following an 18r work day when I have to be back up at 5AM... yeah. It might have been off .0115":p
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The VW lifter part number is 050109309h
I have a set on order and I will be comparing them to the stock BMW lifters once they get here I think they are the same dimensionaly as the BMW lifters.
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Good thread guys, watching with interest! Thanks!
Have some of the late M42 lifters in mine at the moment, but have some evil intermittent tapping noises from them, so will shortly be changing them (the sooner the better!). Am very interested in the VAG parts, are they cheaper? will be like old times, I miss my mk1 golf!
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If the height is the same then all points will be the same lifter for lifter regardless of what end they were measured from.
yeah i passed by the overall height i guess
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the lifters are cheap at 130 US for a set of 16. Tim_S with all due respect why would you miss the Mk1's I had close to 20 of those cars and dont miss the lack of handling and poor head design. Not to say thay are bad cars but they aint all that.
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the lifters are cheap at 130 US for a set of 16. Tim_S with all due respect why would you miss the Mk1's I had close to 20 of those cars and dont miss the lack of handling and poor head design. Not to say thay are bad cars but they aint all that.
They're cute. You can't help but love them :D
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The VW lifter part number is 050109309h
I have a set on order and I will be comparing them to the stock BMW lifters once they get here I think they are the same dimensionaly as the BMW lifters.
I'll back that up... it's the lightweight part number.
As for the MK1s; they handled well enough for them to race bodies and performance companies to base more than one racing series on them. Fast time of the day at the local auto-x is usually a guy with a 8v Scirocco 1 if it's wet. If it's dry he's 2nd behind a turbo miata. I'd say they handle pretty well :D My MK1 count is 19 and I still own three.
Where did you find that price of $130 for 16? Anyone know the weight of an M42 lifter?
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yeah mk1 golfs are fun! I felt it had a lot of character, was a hoot to drive, and was very rapid. i had a 2l 8v with wild cam and big valve head, among other thigns. I rebuilt the thing from the ground up and was pretty fond of it. Had a corrado interior and a BBS bodykit, it was great! I'll dig out a pic later. sure it felt like it was made of baked bean cans, but I do miss it. it handled very nicely too. It's a completely different car to the BMW, I couldn't compare and of course I like the BM, but that's not to say I'm not still a veedub (and audi!) nut too.
Ok, so with the lifters, have we confirmed they will work? Havent seen it confirmed that the groove is in the same location and that the lifter will pump sufficiently. I'm also struggling to find a cheap source in the UK; there's a few of the heavier part number lifters on ebay (UK) though very cheaply, and right now getting rid of the tapping has to be a priority for me so I might risk buying some.
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Well I found the lifters at fourseasontuning.com and were the brazilian lifter and were 130 for a set of 16. The stock M42 lifters were 72 grams each with out oil. I just got my new lifters but they are the wrong ones 050109309J's and not the H's so I will have to talk to James West at four seasons and see what is up. But since I have them I will take some measurements so that we can compare these VW lifters and the BMW M42 lifters.
overall height:26.05mm-1.025"
diameter:35mm-1.378"
depth of oil groove to top, top of oil groove:13.8mm-.540"
oil groove width:2.5mm-.095"
some of the measurements are the best my eyes could see so they may not be spot on but damn close.
These weight 65.8 grams
The ones I got are the 034109309xx lifters which are OEM not light weight
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so did u get the situation sorted out?
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Any new updates on the lightweight VW lifters???