M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: kowalski on March 17, 2006, 07:09:56 PM
-
so i'v had this ticking noise for quite some time, about since i rebuilt my head i guess it would be. so almost a year... its never been bad, i thought it may have been a small intake leak, or sticky lifter. its intermittent, doesn't matter whether its warm or cold. it will do it at high rev's or low. i put a stethiscope on it and i can hear it most in the intake, used to not be able to hear it in the valve cover but now i can a little bit. what are your guys thoughts on this? what do you think it is?
edit: i'v replaced the timing chain tensioner as well FYI.
-
im thinking that this ticking is the same thing i have. i replaced my chain tensioner as well but the ticking came back after some time. its probably the guides...most likely worn just like mine. how many miles on your engine?
-
im thinking that this ticking is the same thing i have. i replaced my chain tensioner as well but the ticking came back after some time. its probably the guides...most likely worn just like mine. how many miles on your engine?
300,000 km's :) or 186,000 miles.
so you think its the guides eh? well that should be a fun weekend job. somthing new!
edit: if it was the guides shouldn't i hear it in the valve cover, and the block more then in the intake? that doesn't make sence to me...
also it did it before i swapped in the 19# injectors.
-
record a sound bite if you can of the noise. do you hear it outside without having to use the stethiscope?
-
record a sound bite if you can of the noise. do you hear it outside without having to use the stethiscope?
yeah. its fairly loud, and the noise level varries as well. some times its pretty damn loud, others times its completely gone, or just faintly noticable. i don't have anything that will record the sound at the moment, but depending on the computer i pick up tomorrow i might be able too.
-
Could be a lifter (or multiple). While they DO self-adjust for lash, they can also become worn and noisy. Now, if they were replaced during your head rebuild, then who knows.
-
Could be a lifter (or multiple). While they DO self-adjust for lash, they can also become worn and noisy. Now, if they were replaced during your head rebuild, then who knows.
no they wern't replaced durring the rebuild. i checked them all and they were all fine. but i didn't mark each one by accident... so i think it might be the problem. i'v got a couple spares in my room (about 16:)) so im gona try those at one point when i feel like taking a cam out...
-
Yeah, could be it. Injector tick is another thing that is possible, and is not a sign of anything bad. It IS annoying...makes me feel like I am driving some poorly maintained old POS...or at least I am afraid that's what other folks would think when they heard the ticking. Oh well, it happens. Good luck!
-
Yeah, could be it. Injector tick is another thing that is possible, and is not a sign of anything bad. It IS annoying...makes me feel like I am driving some poorly maintained old POS...or at least I am afraid that's what other folks would think when they heard the ticking. Oh well, it happens. Good luck!
haha yeah, i know its nothing bad its just getting on my nervs now, and i feel like im driving a P.O.S when it does that..:( what causes injector tick? cause thats what i really think it is. its really loud in the intake...
-
It is just the little olenoids popping open & closed. Maybe they get noisier over time as they wear, who knows.
-
It is just the little olenoids popping open & closed. Maybe they get noisier over time as they wear, who knows.
your on here more often then i am!
how come some injectors arenoisier then others then? and why does it go away... oh too many questions, i have 2 extra injectors so perhaps ill try mix and matching.
-
My car exhibits a ticking noise as well. Just like you explained, at times it gets quite loud. I'll try and record a sound clip tomorrow for comparison.
-
Mine ticks too and I requested replacing the hydraulic lifters in the DIY section.
Before you open up the engine, try using a lighter engine. Try 5W-30 or 0W-30 synthetic. It may burn off quicker (if your engine burns oil), that is the downside.
-
Shit, I guess its an m42 thing. I hear ticking on mine as well.
-
I just picked up a 318is w/156k miles. I replaced the timing tensioner and changed the oil to Valvoline Max 10W-40 which seemed to help, and it got quiet for a little while and now it's loud as heck again. Can hear it several feet away from the car. Sounds like either the injectors or valves. I'm going to try to get a sound clip... let's post some up and compare :)
-
mine had a slight tick to it when i bought it then i re-built the engine....it then became a LOUD tick. turns out my timing was off just a little on the intake cam. i bought the tool from BMW and alighned everything perfectly......now it is VERY quite.
you might want to check your cam timing, considering you just had the cam gears off (like 5 degres or less will make a considerable noise.). Do you have a repair manual....it explains how to do it in there. if not let me know and i will post how to align the cams properly.
-
my cams were alligned by my friend. he build engines all day long, so i doubt he got it wrong, but i guess there's always the chance... however i think the tick wouldn't go away if it was cam timing, wouldn't it? this is an interesting idea tho, cause i didn't have the tick before i did the cams...
-
my cams were alligned by my friend. he build engines all day long, so i doubt he got it wrong, but i guess there's always the chance... however i think the tick wouldn't go away if it was cam timing, wouldn't it? this is an interesting idea tho, cause i didn't have the tick before i did the cams...
i dont build engines all day long but i work on them all day long. i have quite a few of engine re-build jobs under my belt but i still srewed mine up. im glad it was my car and not a customers. anyways i would check it W/ the BMW tool. i did mine without the first time and thats why it was screwed up.....it looked fine by the naked eye but it wasnt. also i replaced the tensioner and all the T-chain guide when i did the re-build and it still was clicking.
-
Mine also ticks for a few seconds *intermittently* right after cold a start.
-
Mine also ticks for a few seconds *intermittently* right after cold a start.
That would be the thick oil. since the hydralic lifters are operated W/ oil presure it takes a few more seconds for them to stop clicking in cold conditions because of the thick oil. next time you start it check the oil presure light, if it stays on for more than 3 seconds after you start the car that could be a sign of a worn pump (or crap stuck in the oil pickup screen.....pieces of my T-chain guide where clogging mine up when i first bought the car).
-
That would be the thick oil. since the hydralic lifters are operated W/ oil presure it takes a few more seconds for them to stop clicking in cold conditions because of the thick oil. next time you start it check the oil presure light, if it stays on for more than 3 seconds after you start the car that could be a sign of a worn pump (or crap stuck in the oil pickup screen.....pieces of my T-chain guide where clogging mine up when i first bought the car).
any products I can use to unclog?
Very infrequently, my check engine light will turn on after warm start up (shutting off the car and restarting the car within minutes) and engine will feel like it's going to die. Maybe they are related.
-
oil flush will do it, other then that the only way to clear it out is to take the pan off.
-
i would take the pan off to clear it. Mine had BIG chunks of plastic in......just the lower pan.
-
Ha! Tick here too! I have listened closely while the engine was on. I mean, I put my ear as close the engine as I could, without burning myself, and it sounds like the it's coming from the injectors. I'm pretty sure that my ticking is not coming from under my valve cover.
-
I bought a 1991 e30 in 2003 with 117k on it. It now has 148k. It has ticked ever since I bought it. I guess I should be happy about it since I got a really good price for a one owner car because of the noise. I thought it would go away with oil changes to syntec 5w30 but it only got a little quieter.
Changed t-chain tension spring- still no change in noise. Really bothers me. The noise is so loud- my friend asks me not pull in front of her house late at night when I bring her home because my car wakes up her roomates.
The noise comes and goes. If I let the car idle for a long time it sometimes goes away. After a hard run on the open road it comes back. Also, the oil light comes on longer than it should in the morning at first start up- maybe 10- 15 seconds. And I too have found small bits of plastic when I change the oil. I thought maybe the noise was from the exhust man gasket when I first got the car but now I am thinking oil take up is blocked or maybe the cam is out of adjustment.
Anyone fix this issue?
Tj
-
I bought a 1991 e30 in 2003 with 117k on it. It now has 148k. It has ticked ever since I bought it. I guess I should be happy about it since I got a really good price for a one owner car because of the noise. I thought it would go away with oil changes to syntec 5w30 but it only got a little quieter.
Changed t-chain tension spring- still no change in noise. Really bothers me. The noise is so loud- my friend asks me not pull in front of her house late at night when I bring her home because my car wakes up her roomates.
The noise comes and goes. If I let the car idle for a long time it sometimes goes away. After a hard run on the open road it comes back. Also, the oil light comes on longer than it should in the morning at first start up- maybe 10- 15 seconds. And I too have found small bits of plastic when I change the oil. I thought maybe the noise was from the exhust man gasket when I first got the car but now I am thinking oil take up is blocked or maybe the cam is out of adjustment.
Anyone fix this issue?
Tj
I'm going to say that you should replace your oil pump. i don't have my oil light come on at all... i just have a tick, if your oil light its comming on for a logn time it means your presure is low, which means the pump is wearing out. its a fairly expensive unit unfortunatly...
-
Mine ticks too and it definately related to the speed of the engine.
Trying to work out what the ticking was I tried to work out exactly how fast it was going... I'm a DJ so I just just beatmatched various music in my head to the tick in 1/2 time (every 2nd tick) to and it seemed to work with happy hardcore; a little faster but close enough. Therefore I put it at about 400 ticks per minute at idle, ie once every 2 revs.
So what happens once every 2 revs? not a complete list but in my limited knowledge:
An injection of fuel, the opening of a particular valve, the closing of a particular valve, an ignition spark... what else? and what is the likelihood that it is one of these?
If it was a timing chain tensioner issue, would the timing chain be "slapping" at 400 slaps per min?
-
I vote injectors.
-
Mine does it in cold, however, I have found 10w30 helps, as does changing the oil as soon as I hit yellow, or it starts ticking again. If I do that it stays away. Also if you run semi or full synthetic that helps, especially you should be able to run 10w30, semi or full, year round dispite the climate you live in. I may try 5w20 soon, I am not sure yet. Last time I had 20, the engine revved and oiled up faster, however the engine sounded more raspy, probably due to my worn tensioner though. With full or semi, you can get away with thinner oil, regardless of the book. I recomend dropping at least one weight (10w40 to 10w30) for semi, probably 2 when going full synth.
Oh and a bit of warning, no matter how worn you think it is, do not even try 20w50... Engine runs REALLY smooth, but sluggish on revs, sucks down your mileage and unless it is hot, your lifters will hate you.
I currently run 10w30 Castrol Syntech (semi-synthetic), and change it as stated above, and always do a filter change anytime I mess with the oil. I know some people who do not change the filter everytime.
One last thing, the oil change interval light is not based strictly on mileage or how you drive from what I have seen. I am not sure exactly how it does it, but so far it has been pretty good at predicting about 1000 miles before my lifter starts ticking on startup, regardless of oil weight and mileage. I ried conventional, 5000 mile, and semi-synth, the semi-synth definately goes further before the lifter ticks, or the light comes on. And no I do not change oil every 3000 miles.
Use good oil.
-
This may be a long shot, but would techron fuel system cleaner alleviate the noise? Has anyone used it before? bf.c members swear by it, may give it a shot in the near future.
-
This may be a long shot, but would techron fuel system cleaner alleviate the noise? Has anyone used it before? bf.c members swear by it, may give it a shot in the near future.
Depends on where the noise is coming from. I cannot imagine injectors sounding as lound as a lifter. If it is a lifter, Techron will not do anything. Injectors, yes it could help.
-
i only have ticking at the usual cold start times for like 5 mins. I put a "heat soak" on my car in Nov. w/ techron and that smoothed my idle a LOT so maybe try that. As far as oil goes, I ALWAYS change my own oil and i use mobil 1 synthetic 15-50 everytime, so maybe the thicker oil keeps it quiet. the only time i used full synthetic 5w-30 the engine burned more oil, and the engine doesn't seem very sluggish to me w/ heavier weight, but maybe i'll switch it up next time just to compare notes w/ you guys
MRJEZZA: what happens i every 2 revolutions? - well every cylinder fires once after 2 revolutions (two cylinders fire per revolution). Like say cylinders 1 and 3 fire in first rev then 4 and 2 on second. So, if the tick comes once every two revs, then most likely it comes down to something malfunctioning that is particular to a certain single cylinder, so maybe it is just one or set of lifters or valves or something, but hopefully just for one cylinder. Just trying to use the symptons to come up w/ a good theory.
-
Depends on where the noise is coming from. I cannot imagine injectors sounding as lound as a lifter.
werd^^^^ there is no way an injector can be louder than the engine.
What oils do's everybody use? I use Swepco 15w-40(as good as kendel used to be) and it quites the engine quite well. Also helps keep the lifters quite.
-
I'm just about to use 20w50.. as instructed by my users manual because I live in a hot climate. I wonder if the car will absolutely hate it.
-
werd^^^^ there is no way an injector can be louder than the engine.
What oils do's everybody use? I use Swepco 15w-40(as good as kendel used to be) and it quites the engine quite well. Also helps keep the lifters quite.
That was my thinking, I cannot remember ever hearing an injector.
-
I'm just about to use 20w50.. as instructed by my users manual because I live in a hot climate. I wonder if the car will absolutely hate it.
Switch to synth. or semi and drop down.
Synth allows you to go lower for the same temps.
From what I have seen, there is no reason to go over 10w40 regardless of where you live. With full synth. ou really do not need more than 10w30.
Only beat up old V8's should use 20w50.
-
15 w50 is what i use and i live in hot/humid beach weather
-
eh I'll give the 20w50 a try for a few months and see if it helps that tick a little. I thought about running synth, but I wasn't in the mood to pay out of pocket at the time. Instead I just got valvoline race oil for half the cost. I don't know what the difference will be, but i'll see.
-
When I had that ticking sound, I found out it was one of my fuel injectors leaking fuel.....Once I changed it, it was all gone;)
-
Switched to 10W-30 Castrol Syntec and to my surprise the tick has gotten worst. It is loudest at idle and could slightly be hear at lower rpms.
I will be trying Amsoil's Performance Improver additive before my next oil change, maybe that will cure the noise... it's extremely annoying. Now, if that doesn't cut it, then it must be a problem with the lifters. Would this be a DIY job, what's involved?
-
Ahh welcome me to the ticking club :D
I Just picked up another m42 recently and it's got the infamous tick. I am running 20w50 Castrol GTX in it and of all m42s I had, this is by FAR the noisiest :rolleyes:
My ears tells me it's the injectors based on the location of the ticking. I replaced the tensioner as well. I am surprised how loud it can get at times and how it can totally disappear as well.
I have a spare set of injectors I might just have cleaned as the remedial step #1 since I will be replacing vaccum lines etc.
Who do you guys recommend for injector cleaning?
-
Ever since I went coil-on-plug the ticking has died down significantly. A neighbor had a tick in his car too, and it disappeared with new plug wires. I guess things were getting old and making a bigger load on the system or something, and the ignition relay was ticking. Might be what mine (ours) was doing.
-
Who do you guys recommend for injector cleaning?
You could try a FI cleaner to see if that helps. If not, http://www.cruzinperformance.com/ is an option ($12/injector plus shipping)
Upon some research I conducted, BG 44K, FP60, Gumout Regane, Redline SI-1, Techron will do the work. Seems like the Redline cleaner is the most popular, probably because of its cost/availabilty, while BG 44k is most the expensive. I'd go with either.
Found this interesting... As per Mike Miller, "You can get rid of carbon buildup on the tops of the pistons through aggressive use of a good fuel system additive such as Red Line SI-1, BG44K, Chevron Techron, or BMW Gasoline Additive. My regimen for this job is one full bottle of Red Line SI-1 before a full tank of fuel, and 1 ounce of the same product in ever tank full after that -- forever. US gasoline additive packages suck, and when detergency is of paramount importance, such as in a car with 10.5:1 compression, no knock sensors, and aggressive ignition timing, we need to mix our own gasoline additive package -- that is the simple harsh reality."
LINK (http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234&highlight=fuel+additive) to thread
-
I use Redline SL1 on all "new cars" I get. This car has been subjected to that treatment already. I'll try run a direct flush through the intake manifold next time I go to change the oil. I doubt it will help but it's worth a shot for $6.00 or w.ever the Redline costs. I was actually referring to having a shop do the injector cleaning along with new seals.
Now that BMWMAN mentions his ticking went away after the COP - I am wondering if it's a combination of worn ignition components? I have a spare set of wires I can swap on to try this w/end. I'll do the free & cheap stuff first :rolleyes:
-
I'm a DJ so I just just beatmatched various music in my head to the tick in 1/2 time (every 2nd tick) to and it seemed to work with happy hardcore; a little faster but close enough.
Haha, thats great. Im gonna have to post that one on my edm messageboard.
-
After listening to the noise again on my way to work..I am thinking it could be the lifters indeed? It's very similar in sound to the noise heard after hard auto-x runs but that noise is the kind that subsides after the oil has flowed or been topped up. Hrmm. I might as well just try that Lubro Moly stuff as well when I am at it. Freshened injectors - Used ignition wires - Lubro Moly - Redline SL 1. 4 weapons for this little battle
-
One thing I have notices, regardless of oil is that after an oil change, especially if I waited to long since the last one, the lifters will start ticking on startup again, but after a couple hundred miles after the chainge it stops.
-
Ahh welcome me to the ticking club :D
I Just picked up another m42 recently and it's got the infamous tick. I am running 20w50 Castrol GTX in it and of all m42s I had, this is by FAR the noisiest :rolleyes:
Look out... Your motor is about to grenade!!! :eek:
Just kidding...
-
Some of it is definitely gonna be from worn lifters. They start to get a little concave over time, still functioning just fine, but get noisy. Injectors can be ticky as well.
Now, say you replace them with new ones, which are convex. Does this mean you get a little more lift (or rather get back the little you lost due to the tops dishing)? A little food for thought.
PS
Post #400
Booyakasha!
-
Had the same tick myself. sounded like injector noise, then it sounded like lifter noise! sometimes it went away then came back later, drove me crazy for a month! It started to get louder in the timing case(complete rebuild 2yrs ago). put in new tensioner to no avail. got worried about the front plate breaking again, so i tore the front case apart to have a look. After kicking myself in the balls, i grabbed the water pump by the shaft, and felt some play! The pump was put in the same time i rebuilt the front case, so i never considerd this a problem! I gave the shaft a spin and found the prick, i mean tick! (noise) All this could have been avoided if i would have removed the belt first and checked for play in the pump shaft!
I think the sound changed position due to the temp, oil visc. alum. parts etc... My dad always told me to check the the small things before going in deep. I guess i should have, he can't be wrong all the time, Right?
This might not be everybodys problem, but it only takes a few min. to check! Good luck with the prick, i mean tick!
-
Had the same tick myself. sounded like injector noise, then it sounded like lifter noise! sometimes it went away then came back later, drove me crazy for a month! It started to get louder in the timing case(complete rebuild 2yrs ago). put in new tensioner to no avail. got worried about the front plate breaking again, so i tore the front case apart to have a look. After kicking myself in the balls, i grabbed the water pump by the shaft, and felt some play! The pump was put in the same time i rebuilt the front case, so i never considerd this a problem! I gave the shaft a spin and found the prick, i mean tick! (noise) All this could have been avoided if i would have removed the belt first and checked for play in the pump shaft!
I think the sound changed position due to the temp, oil visc. alum. parts etc... My dad always told me to check the the small things before going in deep. I guess i should have, he can't be wrong all the time, Right?
This might not be everybodys problem, but it only takes a few min. to check! Good luck with the prick, i mean tick!
holy crap!