M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: fumstoo on March 04, 2012, 03:02:10 PM
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So i bought the motor out of the graffiti e30 (http://ww.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73142&page=3) and its on its way into my car. Trying to talk as little as possible and post as many pictures as i can.
Block
Factory crank (balanced out polished)
Arrow Precision H beam rods with ARP Hardware (all balanced)
Custom pistons 85mm dia (drop com down to 8.5:1)
MLS Head Gasket (.070)
ARP head studs
Final Compression 8.5:1
Head
M42 Titanium Valve Retainers (7mm)
One piece stainless steel valves (+1mm Oversize)
High Performance Larger valve guides (+1 outside dia and inside dia)
VAC High Performance BMW Valve Springs(H-11 Alloy)
High Performance Shims
Hardened Valve Locks
Factory Lifters
Factory cams
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6235/6315777997_a213959806_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6824661477_f6f3711685_z.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6094/6316293792_0cb1ba5f4e_z.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6120/6315774149_3b899b6739_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/6942935113_ebf35dd81d_z.jpg)
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Wow! That's some nice work being done. Can't wait to see it together
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A room stockpiled full of unopened boxes excites me.:D
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Clutch and fw are here!! No pilot bearing so im overnighting one.
old
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6118/6242623552_1a1f20880c_z.jpg)
new
(http://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1_6418341_AO%2FsHkgAAIKWT2FXeQDXhCJOYMU&pid=1&fid=Inbox&inline=1)
whole assembly weights 26.4lbs
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Nice!
The silicon boot for the throttle body. Where did you get it from?
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http://www.siliconeintakes.com/ (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/)
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Dang they have lots of nice stuff.
You wouldn't happen to remember the diameter of the throttle body side of the silicon hose do you?
Thanks for your help
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I dont but im sure i can figure it out. ill let you know
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I dont but im sure i can figure it out. ill let you know
excellent. If not, I might be able to to wrap a wire around the throttle body and measure it, then find a diameter of a circle with the same measurement for the circumference.
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excellent. If not, I might be able to to wrap a wire around the throttle body and measure it, then find a diameter of a circle with the same measurement for the circumference.
By memory it should be around 3.5", but don't trust me, measure it! :)
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(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6047/6851344796_51fb2c0a8a_z.jpg)
Married the g260. I will be trying to do a write up for the m42/g260.
Gauge came in yesterday! Justrack sells these on e30tech. Amazing work that man does.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7187/7002760409_52589dc127_z.jpg)
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oh that is soo sweet. how much if you don't mind my asking?
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$120
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106185 (http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106185)
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Some progress
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7261/6870308184_81fb2fc98f_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7208/7016417967_6a679745fb_z.jpg)
A few to show how it sits with the 240 tranny mount. not sure how i want to modify this one to work or if im just going to build a new one. when i remember to bring my camera with me ill get some good pictures of how the linkage sits. Its about an inch too long and shifted to the right about 3 inches.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/6870308368_4e1b2e1f39_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/6870308684_3e46769787.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6238/6870308782_755ee02675_z.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6211/7016418209_5313e87d4b_z.jpg)
And because i got excited and took a bunch of pictures of my car
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6060/7016418387_8ed331e9ea_z.jpg)
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(http://[IMG]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/download-7.jpg)[/IMG]
(http://[IMG]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/download-5-1.jpg)[/IMG]
(http://[IMG]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/download-6-1.jpg)[/IMG]
(http://[IMG]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/download-7.jpg)[/IMG]
(http://[IMG]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/download-8.jpg)[/IMG]
not sure about how the wheels are going to fit..
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Ive posted a few updates recently but it doesnt look like they've been approved?
EDIT: Why have my last few posts needed approval from a mod and not this one?
Tried starting it today. It cranked. and cranked. and cranked.. I think its a fuel issue. It started leaking at the filter, tightened the clamp, and it started leaking from the next clamp up. checked the gauge on the last crank and fuel pressrue was 75psi.. didnt have time to adjust it or troubleshoot further. back at it hopefully tomorrow, have family in town and the girlfriends grad party is tomorrow (im just a puppy). heres some pictures.
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/101_0344.jpg)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/101_0346.jpg)
^^ Pain in the ass to get the line to fit.
And some of the mocked up linkage.
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/101_0349.jpg)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/101_0350.jpg)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/101_0351.jpg)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/101_0352.jpg)
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Car starts. Had the fuel lines backwards... videos soon
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https://vimeo.com/42869838 (https://vimeo.com/42869838)
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Drove the car last night. Didnt get the linkage right so it pops out of 2nd and 4th gear. hopefully taking care of that tomorrow.
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So i fixed the linkage problem friday, wasdriving fine until my alternator decided to take a shit... And what should my oil pressure be at idle? e30zone said 18psi but it reads a little above zero sometimes. is it just the placement of my sender?
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(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/101_0376.jpg)
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Looks good!
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What model fuel injectors are you using? And what flow rate did you decide to go with? With 8:1 compression and 75 psi, my guess is you're running about 30 psi of boost so your injectors have to be over 50 lbs/hr, which is the range I'm looking for as well. Any insight would be appreciated..
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your good. Delphi Multec 1 Flow-Matched 65lb/hr injectors and the car will see 2 bar of boost eventually. As soon as i figure out (and get lots of money!) what i want to do for lifters and cams. Do you know how factory lifters hold up? Ive got some oem lifters with under 5k on them. Also, the motor was designed with a gt3076r in mind for a turbo. So if anyone wants to see a 173649hp m42, feel free to make a donation :D
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Dang they have lots of nice stuff.
You wouldn't happen to remember the diameter of the throttle body side of the silicon hose do you?
Thanks for your help
3 3/4" is what i just measured with a diameter tape. sorry it took so long
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Also, my charcoal canister is now vented to atmosphere and i seem to be having a vapor lock issue. would reconnecting the canister to vacuum fix this issue?
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(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/103_0402.jpg)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/103_0399.jpg)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/103_0401.jpg)
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Nice, pictures say it all. very tidy install.
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Looks really good. Any plans to dyno?
For the charcol canister, I just removed mine :)
On the turbo the GT30 is kind of a dud. If you go GT30 get the 3071 not the 76. Personally I think a 2871 would be really nice. Much better response and its a 400+ at the wheel capable turbo. It would be much better than the journal bearing hybrid you have now.
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Dyno next summer. After cams, new turbo and some other goodies :)
Ill look into the 2871. Still learning a lot and since its up and running(im out of money) so nows the time to read
And where have you heard that the 3076 is a dud? personal experience? a friend had one? Im doing some more research on them now.
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Why not dyno with the curent setup? Its hard to tell where you need gains without knowing where you are.
I am still learning as well but I have been researching the last few years due to general brokeassness. I do a lot of reading on nissan forums, evo forums, and miata forums since they have engines similar in displacement than ours. Honda forums has lots of info too, but their rev range is higher which skews choices a bit.
It is generally considered the 2876 is a turd because the compressor wheel is too big for the turbine. The turbine chokes before full potential of the 76 is realized and the extra mass of the bigger compressor makes the turbo lazy.
Similar story for the 3076 compared to the 71. If you really need the 76, step up to the GT35 frame. The gt3071 spools faster and has nearly the same output. Its just a better match.
The GT30 turbine is considered to be not as good as the GT28 and GT35. Most people go one way or the other.
Im only shooting for around 300 wheel with great drivability and response for track days. Gt2871 seems the best option. The Borg Warner EFR 6258 would be an even better choice if you can actually get your hands on one.
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Theres no one with a dyno in town so i would have to travel to colorado for a dyno. Not really in the budget. The po of the motor dynoed it at 9lbs and made just under 200hp/tq. I would love to take it down and have it dynoed but it would be worth the wait to get the other parts i want then have it tuned for high boost.
Ill continue looking into those turbos. The goal is 400hp with a decent spool.
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:) first time ever launching the car.
http://youtu.be/MjAt1GhTB88
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:) first time ever launching the car.
http://youtu.be/MjAt1GhTB88
Nice! What wheel and tire size you are running?
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17x9.75 225/35 :o I fucked up getting tires for the rear.. Falken 451 i believe. Seem pretty sticky. Although i couldnt hear if they were squealing over my car and his :p Hopefully ill finish the exhaust soon
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Ordered a muffler!!!! Haha and if it all works out ill be picking up a gopro this friday and there will be more videos!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r0flMUIy_E&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r0flMUIy_E&feature=plcp)
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nice :) love the sound :) and acceleration on 2nd gear :)
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Thank you :) took my first loss last night. Some civic hatch with an h22 turbo. He pulled but i started reeling him back in. Didnt win by much. h22s are nasty little motors..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXxjhCQofBg&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXxjhCQofBg&feature=plcp)
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So its not vapor lock. I got a new fuel psi gauge and i have fuel pressure when its trying to start.. Back to thinking the coils. Still doesnt make sense to me though
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how many hp u have now ?
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u had a nice start :)
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Im somewhere around 200hp/tq. about as much as that h22 has stock :p i need more boost!!!!!
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why not putting compressor ? :)
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can u upload more videos how your car is running ?
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Sure can :) ill try and get one up tonight
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great :)
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tranny pooped. Is it possible that the difference in angle could have caused an issue with the oiling? Or bad tranny in the first place?
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So you started with a m42 engine and added a turbo kit and so far have 200 hp so you can make a e30 318 i nice lightweight fast car
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If you want gearbox to last longer you should get gearbox from diesel car, like 320d. In that case you will need different clutch disc (different splines). They also can be 6 spd....
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Use a ZF trans from a 96+ e36
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Driveshaft cost me $400. Ill be sticking with the g260 for awhile longer :p
So, today is my final day in NYC. ill be back in Wy tomorrow so the 2764038WHP m42 is back in bidness. Tranny and guibo are first. I want to do something about my linkage as well. Its too sloppy for my liking. 2.73LSD after that. Ive sent an email to MM about their 35mm heavy duty lifters and turbo cams. Also considering VAC cams but i have yet to send them an email. Can anyone school me on turbo cams????? Also, i think ive changed my mind about the final turbo. Thinking maybe a hx35 or a hx55. still have lots of reading, and time, before i make a purchase so any input would be appreciated!
Oh, and i have an LC-1 if anyone wants it
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I keep losing my posts! ARG.
Ideal turbo for these engines is the EFR 6258. Same turbos used in Indycar. Response and power potential are unmatched for its size. Its a reasonable cost too.
If for some reason you dont want to run that a GT2871R is your best bet.
The Holset is gigantic and incredibly heavy. I was planning on using one and I sold it for that reason.
What are your power goals? Thats necessary to recommend a turbo accurately.
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For the cams, both MM and VAC have good offerings. VAC imports Catcams cams which are excellent. Their webpage http://www.catcams.be has good info on cam specs.
Many people think stock cams are best for a turbo, which is not true with modern turbine wheel aero. There is a lot of gain to be had in spool time and response from cams.
In general you want an exhaust cam with lower lift and duration than the intake and fairly similar to stock. For the intake you want a higher lift cam with higher duration, aggressive ramp, and advanced lobe centerline (widens you LSA).
The theory works the same as an atmospheric engine. Earlier opening intake valve gives you earlier cyl fill and generates more torque down low. The negative is torque drops off up high (you shift the tq curve left). With a turbo generating airflow you dont have the same problem as higher RPMs are where the turbo is working and air intake does not drop off. Win-win.
Thats the short answer anyway. Post questions here and I will do what I can to answer.
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i like you wazzu.
power goal is around 450whp :) Im looking at this efr 6258. im externally wastegated and i cant find if i can get it without the wastegate. Do you know if that possible or is that a question for borgwarner? I did on removing it but all that came up was honda forums with people welding them open and im not sure if i want to go that route.
your cam explanation makes perfect sense. i cant get on the catcams site though.. ill have to get ie soon.
Either way, the cars being put on hold again... :(
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Just trying to help out :)
The 6258 is only available with IWG for now. Rumor says other housings are on the way. Treadstone is making some V-band housings too.
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So i was thinking today and would advancing the intake cam a few degrees have a similar affect as a turbo cam?
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If you dont want to spend $600 on turbo cams degreeing the factory setup is a good alternative.
I would advance the intake 3-4deg and retard the exhaust 1-2deg as a guess.
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:)
(http://[IMG]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/ResizedImage_1357175201984.jpg)[/IMG]
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OKay, trannys in. still grinds every once in awhile. Fuck... The piston on the slave cyl. falls out. that the issue? i dont understand.. it only does it sometimes and never seems to do it(or atleast i dont catch it) when upshifting
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bent the linkage about 4 degrees. problem solved. yep...
Can anyone tell me how much power stock cams are good for? ive heard 300 but that doesnt quite make sense to me.
oh, and 2.93 lsd and revshift guibo are on the way. finally finishing my exhaust as well
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i believe im still having issues. probably swapping back to g240 because im moving to ca on saturday and dont have the time nor the resources to figure it out.. fuck. have some gnar clutch chatter too so its hard for me to distinguish what the noises are from. finished my exhaust too. its ugly. and my fender touched my wheel and took the paint off. love/hate my car.
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I dont think the factory cams are a handicap. There is more of a rpm limit with the cams than a power limit.
If you need more power...more boost
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thanks for the replies, wazzu!
So ive been thinking more about my trans dilemma. could it be that im using an m42 flywheel with an m20 clutch? why is it eating trannys?!
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The clutch and pressure plate are M20 units? How did you do that? I tried this route with no luck!
i could only use the M20 stuff with M20 flywheel.
What is failing on the transmission?
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When you put in a new trans, remember to replace the clutch fork pivot pin. If its ground down from wear, the clutch wont disengage
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I told vac i wanted a clutch kit with an m42 flywheel and an m20 clutch. Does the factory m20 clutch not bolt to a factory m42 flywheel?
Would the pivot pin really have that kind of effect?
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You can not install m20 clutch on m42 flywheel. Slave cylinder for E36 gearbox is different, but you can make just the rod longer to prevent it falling out. In case rod is too short free travel of the clutch pedal would be very big and could be you would not be able to disengage clutch at all. Sounds from the gearbox could be because there is no oil, oil level is too low or not correct oil was used. Could you please explain what exactly happened to your gearbox? Have you checked pilot bearing? Is it correct diameter?
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Im using a getrag 260. The slave cyl. on the g240 and g260 is the same. Theres oil in the trans. I filled it to the proper level before installing and teh seals are new so theres no leaks. I checked the pilot bearing before installing it. They sent me the wrong one with the kit but i got the correct one installed. I am unsure about the TOB. it fits, but could it be too long/short? and since its an m42 dual mass fw could that be it?
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If the TOB is too short you will not be able to disengage the clutch properly. If its too long, your clutch may never fully clamp down.
Sounds like your issue may be too short of a TOB from the grinding.
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In this case it is possible to make slave cylinder rod longer or adjustable.
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Hmm... Do you think that because the flywheel is much thicker than the original flywheel that the clutch may be over engaging? Maybe a simple clutch stop would fix this? Ive toyed with the idea before and it does seem to shift well when i press the clutch about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way down.
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Yeah, fuck that 5.0!
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haha, that was my little brother. he was stoked.
uploaded a video of what my exhaust sounds like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6QgTVlCmus&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6QgTVlCmus&feature=youtu.be)
and i picked up a dd
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/ResizedImage_1360017635776_zps585a1409.jpg)
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So i think ive come to the conclusion that i need a 323i TOB. Im going to gather a mixture of TOBs to test when i get back with the car. I miss driving it.. :( The 535i is a total slug...
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What kind of wheel do you have?
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The wheels on the e30 are xxr 527
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GTX2867R. I think thats the final decision. Should spool pretty quick, be good for 20+psi and hold strong till redline.
Emailed VAC about some cams. Ill be back in Wy in may so ill be able to get the trans issue sorted.
Oh, and ive been spending a lot of time researching tuning. So when I get back im going to tune the car for 15psi on the current setup
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Thats a decent choice. The BW EFR is still a much better turbo though IMO. The Garrett uses 90s era turbine design.
You can't go wrong with the Garrett though, but you could go "righter" with an EFR 6258 or 6758.
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The only issue is my manifold is an external gate. If i capped it off i feel like that would affect the flow of the gases. Am I wrong?
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It would have a slight impact on the manifold flow.
Then again you can always disable the IWG on the Borg :)
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Can you explain how thats done? Or link me? Ive researched it a bit but I cant find one way that seems legit. Damn the internet and all of the bad information on it.
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You just lock the actuator arm. Basically lock the flap shut.
That or sell your external gate and put the money toward the new turbo (and WG cap).
Since you already have an external gate, you may just want to go Garrett. Its unfortunate BW does not offer an external gate housing in T25 flange.
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That turbo wont hold if i rev till 8k. Still havent heard back from vac about the cams though.. So as soon as i figure that out i can pick a turbo..
Do you think factory lifters are good for 8k? Or should I go for vw lifters?
So ive done some reading and i think hydraulic lifters should be good for 8k. The vw lifters are lighter but im unsure which of the two are stronger.
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I dont have a difinitive answer on the lifters, but I am working on that now. MM uses the early M50tu lifters because they have a stiffer internal spring on engines with a 7700 rev limit. To go higher you most likely need solid lifters.
On the VW lifters I would test the spring rate of the internal spring. This is more important than weight. A lightweight assembly is no good if it collapses under high revs.
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So i replaced my pivot pin and swapped my spacer from the front to the back of the flywheel. Its hard to tell the difference but i hope it fixed the issue.. I did go and drive the car a little bit last night. Tried out the new lsd too. couple donuts and burnouts :D Clutch seems stiffer. I wasnt worried until later in the night when it wouldnt go into gear. had to shut the car off and put it in first.
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did a burnout in an empty parking lot yesterday and got a careless driving ticket >:( but the cars running fine and it was a smokey burn out :)
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It looks like I never stated what was causing my trans issues. I put the clutch in backwards............ :-[
Now that thats settled. Tested some tires today.
275/40/17
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/IMG_20130629_115015_868_zpsc308b5fd.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/IMG_20130629_115015_868_zpsc308b5fd.jpg.html)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/IMG_20130629_114650_005_zps46855f41.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/IMG_20130629_114650_005_zps46855f41.jpg.html)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/IMG_20130629_114956_764_zpsd6cc540a.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/IMG_20130629_114956_764_zpsd6cc540a.jpg.html)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/IMG_20130629_133618_123_zpsb61edf02.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/IMG_20130629_133618_123_zpsb61edf02.jpg.html)
and 245/40/17
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/ResizedImage_1372534642090_zpsbeef1f3a.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/ResizedImage_1372534642090_zpsbeef1f3a.jpg.html)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/ResizedImage_1372534655295_zpsb8a53fe7.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/ResizedImage_1372534655295_zpsb8a53fe7.jpg.html)
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/IMG_20130629_114938_762_zps8579a3ef.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/IMG_20130629_114938_762_zps8579a3ef.jpg.html)
If i run the 275s i need to pull more and stiffer springs. The 245s will probably need to be dropped a little more.
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and such small brakes behind the spokes.. brrr ;-)
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yeah.... :-[ The tags expired two days ago and im not buying new ones till I do a bunch of chassis work. bushings, meth, new coilovers, steering components, brakes, and finish my exhaust. maybe i should just finish it all while i cant drive it... :-\
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Thats what I said almost two years ago! Car hasnt moved since! I finally just had to stop expanding the list of stuff to do so I can drive the dang thing :)
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Heres a question. I have IE poly motor mounts, Condor poly trans mounts and a revshift guibo. Im pretty positive my drivetrain is aligned correctly but i get some vibration and lots of noise when the cars under load. Could it be that theres no flex in the drivetrain at all? And is there a way to make sure my drive train is aligned properly?
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dont take my word on this. i just wanted to toss out my thought. cause im pretty sure i remember reading a thread, that its in the transmission and theres nothing you can do about it except get a newer better balanced tranny. but i could be terribly wrong. its what came to mind when i read it.
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Thats incorrect, the transmission is not the problem.
The trans and motor mounts will transmit a ton of vibration into the frame at lower RPM, which I am sure you feel. I had poly motor mounts and I couldn't stand them. At idle and low RPM it felt like the car would rattle apart!
At higher speeds your issue most likely comes from the Revshift guibo. The guibo is not a proper design because the poly is too rigid and the part needs to flex by design. If you do some searching you will find almost everyone who ditches that guibo is much happier without it!
This is assuming though your CSB is in good shape and your driveshaft is properly balanced.
I would replace your CSB and guibo and see if that helps.
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Under 1300 miles on the driveshaft since it was rebuilt. I ordered an oem guibo yesterday so hopefully its my problem. Ive got a few new toys on the way as well :) If nothing else goes wrong(LOL!) ill have some big updates soon
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Figured id update here too. BW s200sx 56mm. .64 turbine house. meths being installed as well. Going back to school so ill be juggling full time work and school along with the build.
(http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/mf42/IMG_20130813_150049_056_zps366bfafa.jpg) (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/mf42/media/IMG_20130813_150049_056_zps366bfafa.jpg.html)
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Nice snail. ;D
I may jump on the boosted bandwagon this winter.
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Jump on it! Theres been a lot more boosted m42s popping up and im loving it :D
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???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjYQr76118o
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Does anyone have screenshots of the stock motronic maps? or any m42 base maps
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fumstoo did replacing your revshift guibo fix your problem? I was going to order one but was steered clear by a number of people who said it was to much trouble for little gain.
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Are you trying to tune motroinc or a standalone? I have standalone maps for a stockish motor that could help establish a baseline if thats what you are looking for.
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Those would be perfect! Im tuning an electromotive tecgt.
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fumstoo did replacing your revshift guibo fix your problem? I was going to order one but was steered clear by a number of people who said it was to much trouble for little gain.
Sorry I missed this. Yes, it solved the problem.
Spring break starts Friday so hopefully I can buy some more plugs and get some tuning done.
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hi where did you take your oil feed for the turbo from? any pics?