M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine management => Topic started by: 318bud on June 30, 2011, 10:26:57 AM
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how do i remove it? i have all the bolts off but do i have to get the a/c bracket out the way?
if so how do i?
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When I was doing my E30's chain I did have to remove the A/C bracket, IIRC it is 5? bolts on the exhaust and two on the front. All but two are a bit annoying to get to, I know on my first attempt I missed one and was puzzled by the fact that so many were used to support the compressor. Don't forget to wire or hold the compressor up in some way so that you don't bend any lines.
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I did a quick search and found that some people have had success keeping the bolts in place and just sliding the compressor bracket away from the engine.
Look at http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E30/2-doors/USA/318is-M42/LHD/M/1991/browse/heater_and_air_conditioning/air_cond_compressor_supporting_bracket-2/ (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E30/2-doors/USA/318is-M42/LHD/M/1991/browse/heater_and_air_conditioning/air_cond_compressor_supporting_bracket-2/) to see how the bracket is attached. Good luck, hope whatever work you are doing goes well.
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Okay thanks, yea im trying to get the bracket off and im stuck on one bolt. Its underneath at the very top and the comressor is right in the way. thats why i was thinking i had to remove the compressor or something
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are you saying remove the bracket or take the pulley off and slide it over?
im wandering what kind of trick/technique is used to remove the bolt on the back side of the bracket right behind the compressor. tight *** area
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When I did mine I unbolted the bracket and compressor assembly and had the compressor hanging by support wiring. Unfortunately I can't remember the exact manner in which I removed the bolt, but I did just use either a ratchet/socket or a flat/crescent wrench. I know all about impossible to reach bolts having previously owned an MKII GTI 16v where most everything normally simple on cars was blind/difficult without a lift. So all I can say is just feel for the bolt first, get a tool on it however you can and try to not get frustrated. Sorry I don't have better advice on this one, maybe someone else can add to this, happy wrenching.
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Unbolt the compressor and you'll see the bolts you'll need to remove to get the bracket off.
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Here's a pic of what is under the compressor. You can also see the bolts at the front that go through the bracket>Timing cover> block.
(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/318ic%20Timing%20Chain%20Replacement/Readytogobackin.jpg)
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thanks for the picture but yea the only bolt still remaining is that one in the middle. Mine must be rusted pretty good cuz its on there tight. im off to get a 1/4in breaker bar tomrrow so hopefully that'll get it. I cant get the compressor out the way cuz i cant loosen the tricky bolt up front (underneath the electric connection) :/
these bolts getting on my nerves lol :mad:
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Finally got the lower timing cover off! any pointers on installing the new gaskets? should i use sealant all around the block/covers? I heard that new gaskets tend to leak on these cars:rolleyes:
Hopefully this will be the end of the oil leaking days!:D
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I'd definitely use some of that spray-on gasket stuff, especially since it seals and tacks them in place a bit; makes it easier to line all that stuff up.
I've had good luck with Permatex aerosol copper sealant, but that's meant for high heat applications. I'd avoid it for any other use. Hylomar comes highly recommended but I haven't tried it myself. Here's a good page (https://neverseezproductscart.securelook.com/gasketseal.htm) (even better than Permatex's own site) with good descriptions of their products. The rubber gasket dressing looks like it might work as well.
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for some reason it wont start up and turn over :/
one time it even made a little pop noise
anything that i should check to make sure ? Everything seems fine
only thing i can think of is the spark plug order? spark plug number 1 is up front right, than 2 behind that than 3 and 4
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Double check your timing. Make sure your cylinders/coils/wires all match...coil harness plug 1 goes to wire 1 goes to cyl 1. Motor is numbered 1-2-3-4 from rad to firewall.
If it's not that, check that your CPS is working and is as close as possible to the crank trigger wheel.
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my coil packs were out of place so i had to switch #1 to #3 and vice versa. Should i do something after this to set the packs in place? And also how do i check if the CPS is working?
Heres a video of what my engine is doing. Its just not turning over
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h42/seaPPPP/th_car.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h42/seaPPPP/?action=view¤t=car.mp4)
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It's turning over, it's just not firing. Are you getting spark? Pull each of the spark plug wires in turn, stick a screwdriver tip into the boot so that it's touching the conductor that grabs onto the spark plug tip, and then get the shaft of the screwdriver close to the intake or another good conductor with a path to the chassis ground. Have someone crank the ignition. You should (a) be holding onto the plastic handle and (b) see a spark jump the gap between the shaft and ground. If you get a spark for all four plugs, make sure the plugs are connected to the correct coil.
Did you pull any of the relays? It could be that the fuel pump isn't getting power.
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Do you have a COP kit, or the separate packs on the wheel well?
The CPS is working if you're getting fuel. The computer won't start the pump until the CPS confirms that the motor is spinning. You can also test resistance on the harness.
I'd just retrace your steps until you find what's wrong. Double check to be sure the CPS and cam PS are plugged into the correct plugs.
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I have the seperate packs on the wheel well
The only electrical plug i disconnected was for the a/c. I kept the Cam sensor plugged in. Could it possibly be something electrical? or are you guys thinkin its my spark plugs? The plugs are only a month old.
I did retrace my steps and found that everything is where its supposed to be
:confused:
I did lose the CPS little bolt, so i had to replace it with one from lowes(m6 by 16)
everything looks to be fine
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h42/seaPPPP/car1.jpg)
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Okay so my coil packs are labeled as followed: 4-2-3-1
Is this the order that the spark plug covers should go as well? or should they be 1-2-3-4
And also when i try to start the car my a/c belt slips off a little bit...I think this is all due to the crank pulley not being on tight enough
Whats the best way to tighten the crank bolt to the correct torque? (i think its like
~200 torque setting?)
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If you didn't pull the coil harnesses, make sure the 1-2-3-4 coils connect to the 1-2-3-4 cylinders from rad to firewall. The OEM wires sorta only fit one way but it seems like your setup is different than original. I'd go back & double-check everything you did. It's hard to tell from that video but the sound seems wrong somehow. Maybe something is mistimed? What work did you do in all, timing chain, new guides, tensioner?
But...if the PO had those numbers wrong the plugs are confused and the car won't start. The e36 has different color wires in each pack, but if that's an e30 you'll have to trace them back to the DME to be positive that the correct coil driver fires the right coil over the right wire to each proper cylinder. I can get you the colors or pins if you need that info.
How tight is the A/C belt? Is it threaded the right way? Hard to tell, but it looks like the belt is running over the tensioner pulley. It should run underneath it, all three pulleys should be "inside" the belt. The vee has to ride into the grooves on the pulleys to work right.
After you get that right, belts tend to loosen up a bit. Loosen the adjuster pulley nut a bit then crank that screw adjuster on the bottom until the belt is pretty good and tight. The belt should deflect no more than about 1/2" (1cm) in the middle of its longest span when you push it hard with your thumb. Hard to describe.
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My a/c belt has always run over the tensioner like pictured. The belt is tight and everything. And also i have an e36..that could be why
The PO must have setup up the coil packs wrong cuz they are labeled 4231 from rad to firewall..so thats the way the spark plug covers should go as well right? not 1234
Im pretty sure i know why the a/c belt is slipping and its not starting. When the car is starting up i can see that the crank pully wiggles around a little bit. So im pretty positive that the crank bolt is just not tightened enough to the correct torque
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My a/c belt has always run over the tensioner like pictured. The belt is tight and everything. And also i have an e36..that could be why
The PO must have setup up the coil packs wrong cuz they are labeled 4231 from rad to firewall..so thats the way the spark plug covers should go as well right? not 1234
Im pretty sure i know why the a/c belt is slipping and its not starting. When the car is starting up i can see that the crank pully wiggles around a little bit. So im pretty positive that the crank bolt is just not tightened enough to the correct torque
my coils are set up as fallows.. from firewall to radiator, 3.2.1.4.
I have never changed them or rearanged them, so this is the factory setup on my 92318is.
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Just deleted a pic of the a/c compressor support and belt because I just realized you have an e36 with a serpentine belt. The belt position makes perfect sense the way you have it.
Regarding the wiggling Vibration Dampener...
I believe that the Vibration Dampener hub is keyed (number 6 is the picture below), just like the lower timing chain gear (number 8). The 200lbs help to hold it on, but it should not spin even if the bolt is not exactly at that torque. Did you leave the key out of the crankshaft? That would cause the timing chain gear to slip also, which would lead to not being able to start the engine... and a host of other very bad things.
(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/Vibrationdampner.png)
Not trying to be the "Voice of Doom" here, just trying to help troubleshoot.
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so your saying since it wiggling that there is something wrong with the pulley?
I just thought it was wiggling because it wasnt tightened enough
Did i leave the key out? No i did not take apart anything of the actual crankshaft pulley, i kept it all intact
So what do you sugest i do?:confused:
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When you say "wiggling", what exactly do you mean? Front to back and side to side or clockwise/counter-clockwise?
The timing chain gear on the crank did not have to come off, but surely you had to remove #6 in the picture above to get the lower timing case off. This picture shows the crankshaft and woodruff key required to seat the crankshaft timing chain gear and I believe that the hub for the vibration dampener also has a slot in it to slide over that key.
(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/318ic%20Timing%20Chain%20Replacement/comingbacktogether.jpg)
Perhaps you didn't get the hub all the way seated on that keyway and now it's not sitting flush against the timing gear? I say this because the key is not strong enough to hold the hub from turning all by itself, which is why you have to tighten the crap out of it. If your hub/vibration dampener is at all wobbly, I would take a very close look at that setup. If it has turned at all, your timing will be way off.
Forgive me if this is common knowledge for you. It's hard to read your experience level or noobness over the interwebs and I just want to put the info out to ya.
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im pretty much a noob when it comes to this, first time ive ever taken apart my engine.it wiggles side to side, im guessing i did not seat it properly. can i do this with all the belts attached? im trying to figure this out but i am also thinkin about just getting it towed out of here:/
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im pretty much a noob when it comes to this lol, first time ive ever taken apart my engine.
it wiggles side to side, im guessing i did not seat it properly. can seat it properly with all the belts attached? im trying to figure this out but i am also thinkin about just getting it towed out of here:/
i do know for sure that i did not torque it down to the correct 220 torque setting because my gun is not that powerful, and thats what i thought was causing all of this..but i guess something is wrong with the timing
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If it wiggles at all, you have a problem. You can't even check if it is correctly timed because the vibration dampener may not be in the correct spot.
Pull the belts, take the 6 bolts out of the pulley and remove it and the vibration dampener. That should leave you with just the hub. Unscrew the big crankshaft bolt and try to pull the hub off and see what you have. Hopefully the keyway and hub are not chewed up too badly.
Here is where you may want to stop and take a breath. If in fact this hub has slipped and spun on the crank, your timing is going to be off. Unfortunately, this is what is called an "interference" engine, which means that it is possible for the valves to come into contact with the pistons. Depending on how much you have cranked this thing, it is possible that you could have bent valves or damaged pistons. This is the worst case scenario though. Since the engine hasn't actually "run" odds are that even if a valve contacted a piston, it wasn't hard enough to bend it. If it put a dent in the piston, a "hotspot" could develop on the piston which would lead to premature failure down the road.
Let's think positive though! Hopefully you can reseat the hub onto the keyway, put it back together and check the timing. The flatspot on the outer rim of the vibration dampener should line up with the arrow on the Oil filter housing. If that is good and it's all securely bolted down, fire that baby back up.
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When i took my pulley off it was just one piece
i see the slot on the timing gear in the numbered picture..so your saying theres a key on the pulley that has to line up with that slot
This i did not know
I will try to get it all straightened up tomorrow cuz i have no time today
So will the car start even if the pulley bolt isnt tightened to 220 torque setting? Cuz i have no way of getting it that high
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Yes. As long as the hub is lined up with that key and everything is solid. Most 1/2 impact guns will get you to 90-110lbs of torque. However you should find a way to make it tighter. BMW makes a tool that will bolt onto the hub before you mount the dampener.
(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/318ic%20Timing%20Chain%20Replacement/comingbacktogether2.jpg)(See the picture above..it's the one resting on the jackstand.)
(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/3034-2Cranktool.jpg)
They are available from Pelican or Bavauto for about $55 plus shipping. Maybe there is a member in your area that might have one to loan you? Where are you located? Once you get that, you can rest it against the frame of the car and use a breaker bar to torque the bolt down more.
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OK cool thanks well i hope i can it to start in the morning when i try to align everything up properly. And yes i did know about this tool but i could not find someone to lend or sell one to me for cheap
60$+ is alot to spend on a tool for just one use basically lol
thats why i was thinkin bout getting it towed free and just having a shop tighten it for maybe 5$. Or hopefully i can just drive it there once it starts
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Okay so i guess this is my problem..never noticed theres a keyway that i had to line up with the hub
idk if this is messed up or not..but when i line the key up, the hub still spins freely(over the keyway) is this supposed to happen?
i think this is why you said it must be tightened ALOT
So all i must do is just make sure the keyway is lined up with the slot on the hub, than tighten.
Hope it works!
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Okay so im pretty sure something bad happened. I lined it up properly and i could tell it was all in place
I start it up and something pops and i see smoke coming out of the ICV hose, that came off the ICV somehow
So my buddy tries to start it up and i can see that the pulley is in place and not wiggling so im pretty stumped :/
the car is getting towed out of here soon
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GAH! That's not good. When you saw the slot in the crank, was there a piece of square metal sticking up?
The square metal is the key and it should be sticking up and keeping the timing gear and the dampener hub from spinning freely. Cranking down on the bolt just keeps them from getting sloppy and shearing off that key. (http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/318ic%20Timing%20Chain%20Replacement/Crankenlargementpicwithsquare.jpg)
It is sounding more and more like you left that key out of the slot in the crank. Or, it has sheared off. If the timing gear is moving too, your timing is way off. One way to check this without pulling is all back apart is to pull the #1 spark plug out (the one closest to the front of the car). Take a long smooth rod (small wooden dowel or metal screwdriver will work) and insert it into the plug hole. Gently rotate the engine by turning the crankshaft bolt. When the stick is up as far as it will go, the #1 piston is at top dead center. At this point, look down at the Dampener and you should see a small slot on the top of one of the cogs of the gear. It should be pointing directly at the arrow on the Oil filter housing. (The perspective of this picture is looking from the drivers side.)
(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/rjcaptsbmws/318ic%20Timing%20Chain%20Replacement/SmallnotchonDampener.jpg)
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I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but you likely have some bent intake valves. They aren't sealing, then when the plug ignites the fuel it blows the pressure back out the intake manifold.
Were I in your shoes I'd be looking for a good complete head or used motor. It's not the end of the world if the valves are bent; there will still be some salvageable parts and spares are a good thing to have.
A good head, even if it does have bent valves, is still worth cash as a lot of M42's overheat & crack the head.
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When i lined everything up today i tightened it up exactly on the key..but i was thinking it was sheared because the hub would spin over it
The key is not on the top(like pictured above) the key was pretty much facing the bottom. Im guessing that this means my timing is off
The shop i took it too told me that it could have just backfired. Really not sure and im hoping nothing critical has happened because the motor only has 50k on it.
Not exactly sure what has caused all of this? I installed everything just like i took it off so im really :confused:
Im guessing i bent the intake valves when i was trying to crank it over before i seated the hub properly on the keyway :/
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Maybe you just put it back together at BDC? If you did it all the same way it might all be OK, shouldn't matter. Check it from top to bottom (take it back apart if you have to) and then figure out why that crank gear won't stay put. I'd start off at TDC this time, it's just easier that way.
If you put it together the exact same way and the crank gear stayed with the crank, it should be OK. If the timing is off a tooth or two it might have backfired. Could be that the coils are timed wrong so it won't fire, could be the crank sender, could be lots of other things. Even if it's the bent valve "worst case scenario," chalk it down to experience. I've killed cars myself (though they deserved to die). See what your mechanic says & go from there.
After putting it all together, I leave the plugs out & spin the motor around a few times with a wrench on the crank bolt. That way if it sticks or doesn't want to spin, I can resolve the trouble before spinning it with the starter.
Used M42s are still pretty cheap from early e36s and the car is relatively common. There aren't a lot of people that liked the car, I'm not sure why. Might be because the car was cheap for a Bimmer and the snobs avoided them. The early e36M42's had some teething troubles that didn't help either. I think the car is one of BMW's best, but I've been drinking the Kol-Aid for a while now. Sure tastes good! :D
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thanks alot for your help everyone! well the second time around it ended up being the spark plugs were out of order! lol and the first time was because i did not have the key lined up with the hub
thanks again for help everybody!:)
hopefully no more problems!:rolleyes:
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That's good to hear. I'm thrilled that my diagnosis was wrong. Keep her running, y'hear? Hopefully easy problems...these cars aren't trouble-free, but your work will pay off as increased reliability down the road.
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Glad to be of service! When I'm away from home for long stretches I have to live my BMW life vicariously through the members on the forums, so it's nice to be able to return the favor.
Very happy you got it back running without a huge headache. Now you can look back and relish in all the experience points you just earned!
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where can i buy this tool at?
(http://i56.tinypic.com/35lzsxs.jpg)
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Pelican Parts. $58 plus shipping or you can try to find one used. Not selling mine btw. :)
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/catalog/shopcart/BE30/POR_BE30_TOLtol_pg2.htm#item8 (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/catalog/shopcart/BE30/POR_BE30_TOLtol_pg2.htm#item8)