M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: MikeDE on May 05, 2011, 03:06:24 AM
-
I have HEARD that one can use the M44 timing cover/guide on the M42. The main purpose being to eliminate the expensive weak-link Idler Gear from the timing chain circuit. Anyone have any input??
Also, I am swapping my M40 out for the (E30)M42, does anyone know if the
M40 catback will work with the M42 exh mani/cat combo??
And a question concerning motor mounts: the e30 M42 mounts cost an arm and a leg, I have again HEARD that the E28 m535i/M5 mounts fit the bill. Even when there is a hint of vibration, the savings far outweigh the negatives.
-
I have heard the same, but I have never found anyone who has actually has done it. BTW the M44 style guide was fitted to the post Sept 1993 M42. See Link (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E36/Coupe/Europe/318is-M42/RHD/M/1994/browse/engine/timing_and_valve_train_timing_chain/)
-
Thanks for that link. I might be able to find an M44 timing cover at a junkyard around here. As for the guide, when I get my M42 torn down, i'm gonna pick one up from the dealer to see how it might work.
Anyone have aby idea on the motor mounts????
-
You do realize that you need the entire timing chain case right?
-
I have had a quick look at this a little while ago and posted a question in a thread on E30zone (Link (http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=190837&highlight=)). I have a list of parts numbers on the website that may be required. I did not get any response and I have not looked further at this.
-
You do realize that you need the entire timing chain case right?
I will have to look into that further.
-
So, the M42 timing case cover fits onto the M44 timing chain case(E30zone link). The M44 chain case seems to be the only real expense, I will have to find one used. I would be replacing all other components inside anyway, so the cost will be comparable considering I have to buy an M44 case. But eliminating the Idler gear is a big plus, as is being able to refresh the oil pump rotor & cover while swapping cases.
The parts list from the E30zone thread:
I have looked through the parts listing. It seems I need the following parts to adapt the later rail and M44 oil pump to the M42. Correct?
Lower timing case 11 14 1 739 800
Gasket Steel 11 14 1 743 032
Guide 11 31 1 734 694
Fillister head with washer 07 11 9 920 161
Deflection rail 11 31 1 739 130
Fillister head screw 07 11 9 919 824
Chain tensioner 11 31 1 743 262
Bush 11 31 1 247 452
Hex Bolt 07 11 9 904 533
Flat Washer 07 11 9 900 052
Set rotor 11141714611
Oil pump cover 11141714613
-
I am just about to do exactly the same.
I had to buy the correct gasket to seal the newer style timing case to the block.
The gasket is metal, not fibre.
I'll let u know in a week how it goes.
-
I'm looking forward to seeing how this mod works out.
Speaking of mod...MikeDE - I deleted a duplicate post that the board marked as spam. Sorry for the inconvenience, we've had some interesting attacks recently and security upgrades are spamming a lot of legitimate posts.
-
I'm looking forward to seeing how this mod works out.
Speaking of mod...MikeDE - I deleted a duplicate post that the board marked as spam. Sorry for the inconvenience, we've had some interesting attacks recently and security upgrades are spamming a lot of legitimate posts.
Thats ok Dave, when I hit 'submit' and didn't see the post, I tried again. Then I saw the second time that a Mod has to approve it. I figured the dup. would be removed anway.
-
I broke down the M42 yesterday and what do I find???
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd100/Bimmermike/M42_Build/IMG_0952.jpg)
It ALREADY has the M44 timing case in it!!!! Imagine that. So anyway, I will be ordering all new timing components. I have posted on a few German E30 forums to try to find the owner but i'm skeptical.
So Desktop Dave, it appears as if the mod works out just fine:D
-
to confirm, the later style timing case with a guide in place of the the idler wheel...
It works! engine started first time, sound quieter too
As i mentioned last week, the timing case gasket is metal, torqued up casing using e30 values , no oil or coolant leaks. Much happier now the idler wheel has been eliminated
-
I'm glad this worked out. How odd is it that it's already been updated? You might be able to get a full history from a friendly BMW service counter, if you take your title along with you too.
I had no idea that the updated case used a metallic casket. Mine is oozing, so I'll be back on this thread to double-check your parts list...and to admire the pictures.
-
to confirm, the later style timing case with a guide in place of the the idler wheel...
It works! engine started first time, sound quieter too
As i mentioned last week, the timing case gasket is metal, torqued up casing using e30 values , no oil or coolant leaks. Much happier now the idler wheel has been eliminated
I heard the engine run before I bought it. I think it needed a new tensioner as there was hints of chain rattle as it idled. It had also sat for at least a 3 months w/o being run.
I'm glad this worked out. How odd is it that it's already been updated? You might be able to get a full history from a friendly BMW service counter, if you take your title along with you too.
I had no idea that the updated case used a metallic casket. Mine is oozing, so I'll be back on this thread to double-check your parts list...and to admire the pictures.
I will be updating my build thread on R3V, 'mikede' also. But will put together a write-up for just the m42-to-m44 case when everything is done.
BTW I am pretty friendly with the parts guy at my local dealer. I may be able to give him the VIN and see what was done and when. Perhaps I will shoot over there tomorrow morning.
-
Interesting! Man, I wish I had seen this before dropping $180 on a new idler sprocket this week (the old one self-destructed)! I have committed to pulling the timing case this weekend too, since I suspect that the big paper gasket back there is leaking oil. I probably could have bought an M44 timing case (used) and other parts for less than that! Darn!
-
I will have an update this weekend sometime, and I will post a link to my build thread on R3V. But you clever guys should be able to find it seeing as how I have the same username over there as I do here.
I bought all new components for under the cover, including an oil pump and pump cover, an M50 lower half thrust bearing to compliment the original, and a bunch of other stuff.
Check back soon.
-
Ok I'm confused once again by conflicting information on this swap. First, in the parts list above, the M42 oil pump rotor & cover are listed. But I read that you need to use the M44 rotor and cover because it's thicker, and the M42 will not fit. What's the real deal? And second, the parts list also says you need the late model M42 tensioner and associated hardware, but the tensioner goes into the upper cover which you don't change, so why would you need to change to the later tensioner?
-
bump
-
I'm not sure about the oil pump, but the later model tensioner is a BMW production line upgrade and supersedes all older part numbers for M42 & M44 motors. They changed it to a slightly longer model because the chain can stretch beyond the adjustment range IIRC. The info isn't wrong, just confusing.
-
ok, thanks dave!
i did some research on the oil pump rotor and cover and i'm even more confused now. pelican parts doesn't even list the m44 rotor set. even if you look up a car with the m44, it only shows you the m42 rotor. so i pulled the m44 part number off realoem and plugged it into pelican, and they do sell it but it's a special order part. that leads me to believe that the m42 and m44 rotors are interchangeable, but who knows. hopefully someone will chime in here.
-
Is there some exterior identifier that would indicate that the timing case is either M42 or M44 without opening it up?
-
The outer covers are the same so there's no way to tell without pulling the lower cover. The change took place in 9/93 so if your engine was built after that you have the updated guide.
-
MikeDE, did you ever figure out the oil pump issue? Do you have to use the M42 pump?
-
I'd like to know the answer to that one too if anyone knows.
-
I tracked down the answer on another website. Essentially, MikeDE discovered that his timing case cover was in fact, a late model M42 that was covered by the factory design update, so it was intended to use the M42 pump. It was the introduction of the M44 that incorporated the updated M42 deflector design and added the increased oil pump capacity. Bottom line, if you know your case came out of an M44, use the M44 pump. If it came out of a post-design change M42, use the M42 pump.
-
EDIT- Thanks locknload^, I wrote the reply before I saw yours.
MikeDE, did you ever figure out the oil pump issue? Do you have to use the M42 pump?
I'd like to know the answer to that one too if anyone knows.
Read thru the build thread, I explained what happened after I did some research.
You have the standard E30 M42, then you have an early E36 M42, then the M44.
The early M42, till about 09/1993 used this timing case, #11141727191, with the idler gear. Oil pump #11141714611(the thin one)
The E36 M42, from 09/1993 till 09/1995, used this timing case, #11141739699, with the deflection rail. Oil pump #11141714611(the thin one)
SOOO the M42B18's used (2) different timing cases BUT the same oil pumps.
The M44 uses the thicker one. I bought that one first b/c I thought I had an M44 case at first glance.
Bottom line, if you know your case came out of an M44, use the M44 pump. If it came out of a post-design change M42, use the M42 pump.
Even if you don't know if it's a late M42 or M44, the body(the outer part) of the pump must sit flush with the case when installed. Too high or too low, it's wrong.