M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: rob_e30 on March 22, 2011, 07:13:11 AM
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After going through 2 Getrag 240's in roughly 3 track days, I feel that we can say for sure that the torque limit of a Getrag 240 is somewhere around 300 ft.lbs. Keep in mind that we run 255 tires on 17 inch rims, and they're pretty sticky Nitto NT01 DOT R tires. With no wheel spin in 3rd gear we've managed to destroy two transmissions while on the track. Both had new Royal Purple oil.
Your mileage may vary... A street car will have less sticky tires that are likley narrower so you may get wheel spin before you crush your transmission.
We will be going to an E36 ZF tranny. That being said, we have a Getrag 260 and 2 more 240's that should work, if anyone is interested.
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Bummer man. Any tricks needed for the e36 trans to fit/bolt up?
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Bummer man. Any tricks needed for the e36 trans to fit/bolt up?
It should bolt up and be the proper orientation. We'll have to customize the prop shaft to get it the proper length. We've got to figure out the correct TOB as well.
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Rob, bummer on finding the limit but at least you know that you HAVE to upgrade to a heavier trans now and aren't just doing it "because". The ZF should treat you nicely.
Also, thanks for letting people know. I will have to rethink using the G240 now :cool:
When I was looking into this before I made a nice chart of gear limited speeds for different combinations of trans/188mm R&P
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx146/nhertlein/1991%20e30/e30gearingcalculator.jpg)
Keep pushing limits!
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Video clips from the weekend coming soon.
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Interested in install pics....!
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Please do share the details of stuffing the zf in. I'm certain many of us would be interested in upgrading, and custom 6 speeds are a bit out of my range.
Are you going to change your diff ratio for the 1:1 zf final?
EDIT: From an old thread on bf.c
From all the searching I've done today, I've been able to come up with a few things. It seems that there were just two transmissions available to US spec cars, the ZF S5D 310 Z and ZF S5D 320 Z. According to the '95 M3 technical reference, the three digit number indicates the torque rating in Nm. Those numbers then correspond to 229 and 336 ft-lbs. Obviously then, 96-on M3's had their transmissions replaced with the 320 Z transmission because of the increase in torque to 236 ft-lbs.
Truth?
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Yes, you want the later model ZF (was available in the 328s as well as the M3). You can find lots of info on reconditioning the trans before you swap it in as well. There are update parts available.
Shouldn't require anything special to drop in, many people have done it.
You will most likely want to change final drive ratios unless you like ultra short gearing. Thats why I included the chart...to see what you should swap to.
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Rob, what diff were you running at the time?
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We run a 3.64 diff. We'll likely need something with a taller rear end, depending on the track. I think the 3.64 will be fine for Buttonwillow and Chuckwalla.
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What is the adavantage of ZF over Getrag 6 speed?
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The 6spd is expensive, the ZF is dirt cheap and plentiful :)
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Thank you .. this chart is very helpful & interesting !! Cheers to you, Sir!
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After going through 2 Getrag 240's in roughly 3 track days, I feel that we can say for sure that the torque limit of a Getrag 240 is somewhere around 300 ft.lbs. Keep in mind that we run 255 tires on 17 inch rims, and they're pretty sticky Nitto NT01 DOT R tires. With no wheel spin in 3rd gear we've managed to destroy two transmissions while on the track. Both had new Royal Purple oil.
Your mileage may vary... A street car will have less sticky tires that are likley narrower so you may get wheel spin before you crush your transmission.
We will be going to an E36 ZF tranny. That being said, we have a Getrag 260 and 2 more 240's that should work, if anyone is interested.
Are you sure its not because of high oil temp?
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While we cannot be certain, we don't think it's temp related. The second failure happened on the first timed lap of the morning session so the transmission did not get a chance to heat up. The transmission had brand new oil in it so I'm certain it was full and clean.
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Bummer man. Any tricks needed for the e36 trans to fit/bolt up?
We have the transmission bolted up, but need to resolve the throw out bearing and prop shaft. The ZF has a different output flange so we need to find the proper length prop shaft. We're probably going to have our existing prop shaft customized. We'll shorten it by 2" and have the flang from the E36 welded on.
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We have the transmission bolted up, but need to resolve the throw out bearing and prop shaft. The ZF has a different output flange so we need to find the proper length prop shaft. We're probably going to have our existing prop shaft customized. We'll shorten it by 2" and have the flang from the E36 welded on.
Try to find a 328 E36 shaft, they usually fit bolt on with the ZF tranny :)
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We run the M20 flywheel and clutch off this M42 turbo. We just added the E36 5 speed ZF trans. Does anyone know what TOB would work? We tried the G260 TOB and that didn't work. We have a 323 TOB but we haven't tried that yet.
Any ideas which TOB will work with our combination?
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are you running the 228mm clutch and flywheel set? single or dual mass? the dual mass entire setup from g260 e30 is = the g250 e36pn which is = stack height as s52's 240mm dual mass setup for ZF SG320
the S52 uses a dual mass setup stock, have you tried using that or at least comparing the original S52 clutch with the setup you are trying to run?
OEM sachs S52 clutch holds more than 350rwhp, so you could just run the stock item.
left is a E24 633CSi single mass flywheel setup in 240mm (OEM BMW)
right is UUC stage 2 single mass flywheel setup for S52 e36m with zf trans with Sachs e34m5 clutch+pp+friction disc
I would use whatever TOB is used in the E34M5 clutch kit
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_Zomj3eOxl94/TYuLGji83AI/AAAAAAAAGp8/mxejZX__1oU/Photo%20on%202011-03-23%20at%2020.34.jpg)
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We run the M20 flywheel and clutch off this M42 turbo. We just added the E36 5 speed ZF trans. Does anyone know what TOB would work? We tried the G260 TOB and that didn't work. We have a 323 TOB but we haven't tried that yet.
Any ideas which TOB will work with our combination?
323i throw-out bearing will work perfectly with an M20 lightened flywheel and clutch.
I used that setup with my 6 speed swap and worked a treat.
For my prop, I shortened the E30 prop and welded the E36 flange onto the end of it.
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323i throw-out bearing will work perfectly with an M20 lightened flywheel and clutch.
I used that setup with my 6 speed swap and worked a treat.
For my prop, I shortened the E30 prop and welded the E36 flange onto the end of it.
Yep, that and a lot of time bleeding the clutch slave an that all worked great.
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What clutch setup were you using with the g240s? just curious.
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Did you try an e36 propshaft? I always thought that was supposed to work.
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What clutch setup were you using with the g240s? just curious.
We run a Clutchmaster Stage IV clutch & pp that we picked up from Bimmerworld.
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Did you try an e36 propshaft? I always thought that was supposed to work.
We use the back 95% of an E30 prop shaft and and forward yoke (not sure if that is spelled correctly) of an E36 prop shaft. Had a local drive shaft shop cut weld and balance the drive shaft.
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We use the back 95% of an E30 prop shaft and and forward yoke (not sure if that is spelled correctly) of an E36 prop shaft. Had a local drive shaft shop cut weld and balance the drive shaft.
Thats what I did. Cut and welded it myself with the help of the lathe though.
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We lack the tools for this job, especially the balancing part. IIRC it was only about $250 to have the shafts cut to spec and balanced with both shafts.