M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: fiftytakedowns on November 29, 2010, 06:59:01 PM
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Comin back from I-80
My car is starting to make some funky ass noise from the engine bay.
I pull over to a gas station, and I hear waht Resembles rod knock, but it is not so harsh. at Higher RPMS it is almost faint. Anyway, IDling it was making the noise, and I realized Im FUCKED if I get it towed, so I drive the 2 miles up the freeway to davis, and im trying not to freak out from the noise.
anyway, I pull into the parking lot, and it nearly goes away. I couldnt distinguish it from the top or bottom of the engine. but I took an audio file, If you can ignore the very loud rattling of the aluminum flywheel than you might be able to hear it.
If anyone has an Idea what It is, or should I start hunting for a new m42 for when I can finally afford to buy one.
To understand the urgency, I have a job in marin, that I have to commute to on thursday through Monday. and Im nearly done with the 2002, Im just assembling it.
Link:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Memo.m4a
wht would be the minimum I could pick up a m42 longblock for?
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I suspect that, yeah, you're fucked.
It sounds to me like you're timing chain has shit the house. (That's technical-speak for almost died.) You could try throwing a new chain tensioner in there but . . .
I'd get the 2002 on the road mas ricky-tick.
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wow that sounds like shit. you could probably find an m42 for 200-500. but i would check and see what actually went wrong and see how much it would be to repair vs buying another engine. a timing chain isnt expensive but who knows what happened to the internals from the timing chain busting. bent valves and such. goodluck
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If the timing chain was fucked, wouldn't it not run. This engine I feel is on it's last legs anyway, with all the problems it gives me. I guess I'm in the market for a new engine, I just need the facilities to do the swap and the way of getting it there.
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If it broke, the car would not run. If it's stretched out, about to break, and slapping against the guides, etc. it'll make a loud diesel-sounding rattle. That said, sometimes when it makes that noise it's just that the tensioner has failed and replacing it can help things.
It's not that big of a deal to remove the valve cover to assess the level of wear on your chain, etc.
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alright, I can do that
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NEw findings:
here's how it sounds :(
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/blwon%20engine%201.m4a
here's what I found:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0127.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0128.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0129.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0130.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0131.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0132.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0133.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11819570/Car%20pictures%20m42%20blow/IMG_0134.JPG)
I dont know what that little thing is, but It was floating around once I pulled the valve cover
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I don't know what that is...did removing it solve the noise?
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nope, you can hear the noise in the second sound file, someone reported that it is a part of the timing chain guide.
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My car sounds a lot like that. When I first bought it I pulled the lower oil pan and found quite a few pieces of plastic in it from the chain guides and a little flat chunk of metal. This was the first clue that my timing components needed to be replaced. I was also getting some noise at 2800rpm or so and went away higher than that. After driving the car home (about 1500mi) the noise all of a sudden got 100x worse and could be heard at all rpm. I limped the car to my house and pulled the valve cover. The chain was intact and the cam gears looked good. I didn't think it jumped time so I ran a compression test to see if the valves got bent and they were fine. What seems to have happen is one or more of my guides and/or the idler gear gave out but not bad enough to jump time or snap the chain.
I suspect something similar may have happen to you. Will the car not say running? I'd do a compression test first (you can rent a gauge from most auto parts stores). Then I would pull the lower oil pan, it's a good idea to check for bolts in the pan regardless. It may give you some clues as to what is going on.
I'm going to replace all the timing stuff on my car as soon as the last of the parts get here later this week. I'd be happy to share the part #s and where I bought everything from if this turns out to be your problem too. I'll be like $400 into it when you include coolant, oil and a some other misc. things I'm doing while I'm in there.
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Kyle's right. Drop your lower pan and look for chunks. No chunks? Replace your TC tensioner with a new one ($40 or so) and tell us what happens. Your pics are kinda crappy, but it appears as though your cam gears aren't too bad. I bought my car with a similar noise and replaced the tensioner with the e36 version and it's been quiet ever since, even at startup.
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That sir is a piece of your chain guide. You gotta remove the entire lower timing case cover to really inspect the damage...otherwise you're just pissing in the wind right now :)
This happened to me on the highway back in the day, it sounded like a bunch of marbles were being thrown around inside a metal canister. Shouldn't be that difficult, took me abou 2-3hrs replace all of the timing components.
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so my engine isnt toast then?
I just want to be sure that my valves arent bent or I something got screwed up elsewhere because of the timing chain fail. anyways, Ill try to pull it, it will just be difficult with the lack of tools here in davis.
Morgan
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so my engine isnt toast then?
I just want to be sure that my valves arent bent or I something got screwed up elsewhere because of the timing chain fail. anyways, Ill try to pull it, it will just be difficult with the lack of tools here in davis.
Morgan
Morgan, you might have gotten lucky like myself...fingers crossed!
You should be able to do everything with a regular tools, the crank bolt will the only tricky one without the bmw tool.
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Morgan, you might have gotten lucky like myself...fingers crossed!
You should be able to do everything with a regular tools, the crank bolt will the only tricky one without the bmw tool.
Isn't the crank bolt just a 22MM deep socket? and to pull the pulleys you recommend just a crowbar and a hammer I am assuming?
Thanks!
Morgan
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You can do this job with the engine in the car. The biggest challenge is getting the crank bolt off... it's a 22mm socket and you need to lock the flywheel or find a way to secure the crank pulley. I welded a piece of steel square stock to an old crank pulley, bolt that in place of the stock one, and go to town.
Plan on replacing all of your timing guides, chain and tensioner. It's tough to see in your pictures, but it looks like your cam gears may have gotten very pointy. They are not supposed to be and would likely benefit from being replaced too.
Do a compression test to check the status of your valves. If it fails that, you will likely need a valve job. All of it is do-able but you need to look at the rest of the car to determine if it's worth it.
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Do a compression test to check the status of your valves.
Or Piston rings...
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Lot's of Good info, Thanks! Looks like Ill be pickin up a compression tester.
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Lot's of Good info, Thanks! Looks like Ill be pickin up a compression tester.
Don't buy one unless you think you'll use it more thank just this once. Most auto parts stores will let you borrow one. Just put down a deposit for what its worth and you'll get it back when you return it.
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I was planning on gettin one from a friend! Thanks for lookin out though, I appreciate it!
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I just picked up a spare m42 long block in great shape, too bad it has 0 compression in two cylinders. LOL Im hoping to use parts in case that there is no internal damage on my m42.
or part it out to buy a spare lol
Morgan
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i'm sure you won't find any damage to your M42. as stated above, the part you found is from the timing chain components. i rebuilt a M42 with 183K miles on the clock. the engine internally was great. the timing parts were a mess. the rails had self destructed and where scattered about, but the car still ran.
you will need to replace the timing rails. the cams gears look okay, and i'm willing to bet the chain is also.
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Like I said before we seem to be having a similar problem or at least similar symptoms. I pulled and replaced all my timing components last weekend and this is what I found. I knew my guides were bad because of pieces of plastic in the oil pan. I also suspected the idler sprocket could be bad. In fact it seemed to be in perfect shape but I replaced it anyway. The main culprit was the chain rail (#6 in the real oem diagram), a huge piece of it broke off and caused the lower guide to break as well.
(http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww232/Kyle_OA/6de115ec.jpg)
The piece you found is from the same rail. I'd imagine the same thing happen to you. I know of at least one other case where this same guide failed but it got caught in the crank sprocket and caused the chain to jump time and bend all the valves.
If you are looking for the most cost effective route I'd pull apart the spare motor you have and see what can be used. It's hard to see from your pics if the cam sprockets have pointy teeth or not. Mine were in great shape so I decided not to replace them or the crank sprocket. I could have left the idler alone too but I already bought one off ebay. At a minimum you are going to need 4 new guides. But if you go through all the trouble of pulling everything apart I think its worth it to spend the extra couple hundred dollars and do the chain, tensioner, and cam gears too.
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/peaceville/IMG_0729.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/peaceville/IMG_0728.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/peaceville/IMG_0727.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/peaceville/IMG_0726.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/peaceville/IMG_0725.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/peaceville/IMG_0724.jpg)
here is the spare engine thst I just pulled apart. Ill get my car towed here, and start tearing it apart to see what is going on with that engine. but it looks like this engine only had a blown headgasket, and a broken rail just as the one above you showed.
I wonder what would be the cheapest way to do an R&R given I have two engines.
Also, This engine was supposedly had no compression in two cyls, and when I popped off the head, I found coolant in two cyls... (headgasket and not rings?)