M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: VegasKyle on September 14, 2010, 09:32:39 PM
-
I pulled my oil pan today to look for bolts, no bolts were in the pan but 3 were loose. The pan looked like it had been pulled before ( I could see where the gasket was scraped off) but there was a lot of sludge in the bottom so it must have been a while ago. Here is a picture of what I found. There were only 3 bits of metal (left of the quarter) the rest is plastic from the guides.
(http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww232/Kyle_OA/1773e3c7.jpg)
I get the diesel sound from 2300-2700rpms other than that it's quiet. I tried looking through the oil cap to see the sprockets but all I could see was the chain. Maybe I need a better light. I'll pull the valve cover when I get home. But until then can you guys help me ball park the condition? Should I worry about the 1500mi drive home or, can it wait?
-
Personally, I wouldn't even start the car.
-
Do you have any idea whether the timing chain has ever been replaced before? If the chain was replaced after the last time the oil pan was dropped, the bits could be from the first chain.
If the chain hasn't been replaced and the car is over or close to 150k, I'd replace it before driving anywhere. But I'm not an expert on these things, I just play one on the internetz.
-
+1 on not starting the car...I'd definitely take a good look at the rest of the chain drive. It's worth it just for peace of mind IMHO. Might just be a weak tensioner or something far more ominous. If you have a few oil leaks it'd be a good time to replace the profile seal & maybe the main seal as well.
I'd be worried about the idler gear bearing down on the passenger side. If your chain skips a few teeth...well, you know the rest.
-
I had this in my pan and I've put 3000 miles on since then.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/bmw/oilpan003-1.jpg)
-
I had this in my pan and I've put 3000 miles on since then.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/bmw/oilpan003.jpg)
-
I'm not even going to look in my pan. I'm worried about what I'll find.
-
I had this in my pan and I've put 3000 miles on since then.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/bmw/oilpan003-1.jpg)
When your idler gear finally snaps, I'll sell you my extra timing chain case.
-
When your idler gear finally snaps, I'll sell you my extra timing chain case.
I plan to replace everything next spring . If it blows up before then, the cost of a replacement motor is cheaper than the timing components.
-
I just finished the t-chain replacement. It is not something to do away from home (if you do your own work), but if a shop is going to do it, it isn't rocket science, so a competent foreign car repair place can do it. a BMW specialist would be good, but you don't need a dealer.
I think I would try to drive it- but I take a lot of risks...
If you do, pay attention to the sounds. If it changes, stop. Sumthins about to go. Probably that idler pully. Looking at the largest piece, it looks more like part of a race- not the pulley end.
It could be a piece of debris that got in there from outside somehow over many years of use- like maybe the washer on the chain guide bolt at the head- if anyone has ever had the head off that can happen- ask me how I know...
Are you stuck away from home if you don't drive? Good luck!
-
Sorry I haven't revisited this thread. I was thoroughly enjoying the rest of my vacation in the beautiful pacific north west.
Thank you everyone for your input.
I poured over all the old receipts for the car and found the lower pan gasket was replaced at 30k because it was leaking. I don't know if the timing components were ever done but I found a receipt that isn't legible except for a partial part number (looks like water or the sun bleached out the carbon copy) The part number appears to be for one of the guide rails. The receipt is newer than the one for the pan gasket but I don't know any more than that. I'm going to replace the chain, guides, and all sprockets regardless.
After changing all the fluids, PS belt, plugs and and pan gasket I've put about 150mi on the car. I'm hooked! What a great little car, I can't wait to see how it is with refreshed suspension and a chip.
Here are my options: 1) Have a mechanic do the work and spend 2x what i paid for the whole car. 2) Or drive it home and hope for the best. Worst case it lets go, I'm shopping for an M42 and the car is somewhere in WA, OR, CA or NV. This is probably still going to be cheeper than paying someone to replace the chain.
So, I'm opting for #2. I left the car in Washington and drove back to Vegas with my girlfriend and the dog. I did't want her to be stuck with me if something goes wrong, she had to be back to work today. I got a 1 way flight back to Bellingham on Thu. for $40. (Allegiant Airlines is great for those that don't know) I've been pricing out parts to do the timing chain job and will do it as soon as I get back.
Hopefully my number isn't up, wish me luck! I'll let everyone know how it goes.
-
i just did this with my project car.. the cam gears are 52$ each... i think the crank gear is 70$. and the damn idler gear is like 125$.. i did not replace the idle gear on my car, but replaced the other 3.. i also replaced all of the plastic guides and the chain tensioner.
There is a picture in my build thread comparing the new cam gears to the old ones.
-
i just did this with my project car.. the cam gears are 52$ each... i think the crank gear is 70$. and the damn idler gear is like 125$.. i did not replace the idle gear on my car, but replaced the other 3.. i also replaced all of the plastic guides and the chain tensioner.
There is a picture in my build thread comparing the new cam gears to the old ones.
I've been pricing out parts for a while and was lucky to find the idler gear on someones eBay store for 59.99.
I haven't ordered anything yet. I'm going to wait until I get home, pop the valve cover off and go from there.
-
Made it home!!! The car ran beautifully, not a single hiccup. I'm glad to have the car home so I can start the restoration. Thanks for all the help.
Kyle
-
Made it home!!! The car ran beautifully, not a single hiccup. I'm glad to have the car home so I can start the restoration. Thanks for all the help.
Kyle
Awesome!
-
Now I have a problem. I planed to take the car to the DMV today so I could get it titled and registered here in Nevada.
I was about a mile away from home in 3rd gear doing about 35mph. All of a sudden the car started to make a loud buzzing sound. It sounded kind of like the "diesel noise I was getting but much louder". It sounds like it is coming from the timing case and you can hear it at any RPM. The noise isn't constant, it changes with the RPMs. The car still idles fine but you can hear the noise. I looked through the oil fill hole and you can see the timing chain is still in place.
My guess is one of the guides completely gave out or something similar happen with the tensioner. If this is the case and I can just replace the timing components, great.
My worry is that the chain jumped time and caused damage to the valves, pistons, and cylinders. Is this possible? Would the car still hold an idle if this is the case? How can I find out if this happen? Would I be able to tell just by taking the valve cover off?
I don't want to buy all the parts to do the timing chain, replace everything just to find out this it wasn't the problem or there is more damage.
Thanks for the help.
I started a new thread in the "engine" section regarding this problem
http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=97209#post97209 (http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=97209#post97209)
-
i just did this with my project car.. the cam gears are 52$ each... i think the crank gear is 70$. and the damn idler gear is like 125$.. i did not replace the idle gear on my car, but replaced the other 3.. i also replaced all of the plastic guides and the chain tensioner.
There is a picture in my build thread comparing the new cam gears to the old ones.
What's the actual issue with these? Is it the idler gear (the one to the left of and just above the crank gear) or the retaining bolt that fails?
Mine's in bits now. The idler gear is smooth and quiet, very little wear on any of the sprocket teeth at 180'000 miles and the chain looks perfect with no more 'bend' than the new one I have. I have two new cam sprockets and a new crank sprocket. The left hand chain tensioner rail (that the tensioner acts on) looks okay with the usual light grooving from the chain. It has the old type tensioner plunger and I have the later M44 type one to fit.
It's an early E36 so has the different sump. Do these have 'gasket shift'.....whatever that is!?
Cannot find any reliable info anywhere.............someone must know!
-
The idler gear has ball bearings inserted into plastic and pressed into the gear. When the tensioner gets weak it allows the chain to 'slap' putting excess pressure on the gear and eventually it disintegrates.
I don't think the e36 has the gasket shift problem since the pan bolts are external and you could see if they were missing.
-
The idler gear has ball bearings inserted into plastic and pressed into the gear. When the tensioner gets weak it allows the chain to 'slap' putting excess pressure on the gear and eventually it disintegrates.
I don't think the e36 has the gasket shift problem since the pan bolts are external and you could see if they were missing.
Should be okay then. I only took the cover off mine to inspect the chain as it's done 180'000 miles. It's a 1992 E36 and had the original E30 type tensioner. It sounded okay, (M42's were never refined!) but the original chain (which has what looks like Iwis/Jwis markings on the links) has no measurable wear or stretch, the left hand tensioner rail looks good and all three sprockets look good enough to go again. I just happen to have three new ones and a new Jwis chain (in a Febi Bilstein box...) knocking about, so........
I will replace the centre bolt for the extra sprocket (or reverse idler in BMW speak) and put the new bits in - it might do 200'000 miles. Maybe.
-
I had this in my pan and I've put 3000 miles on since then.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/bmw/oilpan003.jpg)
Yikes.
I found nothing in my oil pan...and i've gotten to put three miles on it since then! :rolleyes: