M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS

DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: dude8383 on September 05, 2006, 09:29:38 PM

Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 05, 2006, 09:29:38 PM
(http://static.flickr.com/81/235545856_b561c6b25f_o.jpg)

Slowly being taken apart for bigger and better things.
Title: Looks good.
Post by: D. Clay on September 05, 2006, 09:52:11 PM
The chain and sprockets look great, Has the intake cam been advanced? Did the upper cover bolts break off or does the picture just look that way?
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 05, 2006, 10:29:24 PM
pic just looks that way...nothing was blown of. It was a really smooth running motor, grandpa driven. Im assuming thats why the motor looks soo good.

How do i remove the camshafts??

Oh, the intake cam may have been advanced, i have no clue as i am tearing apart this motor for the first time. I got it with 140k, so i have no idea what its history is. I just know it wasn't driven hard!
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: romkasponka on September 06, 2006, 04:05:23 AM
To remove camshafts you have to remove sprocket (better mark their position)  and then unscrew camshafts.


http://www.catcams.be/800x600/prod01Alist.htm?PN13014xx.js (http://www.catcams.be/800x600/prod01Alist.htm?PN13014xx.js)

With advanced intake camshaft you will loose all torque and HP over 5k rpm.
As you can see in http://www.catcams.com (http://www.catcams.com) overlap is small, smaller than on stock engine.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 06, 2006, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: romkasponka
To remove camshafts you have to remove sprocket (better mark their position)  and then unscrew camshafts.


http://www.catcams.be/800x600/prod01Alist.htm?PN13014xx.js (http://www.catcams.be/800x600/prod01Alist.htm?PN13014xx.js)

With advanced intake camshaft you will loose all torque and HP over 5k rpm.
As you can see in http://www.catcams.com (http://www.catcams.com) overlap is small, smaller than on stock engine.

those settings were there before i even got the engine...i only acquired it at 140k. Everything will be done according to spec once i re-install everything
Title: Advanced cams.
Post by: D. Clay on September 06, 2006, 11:25:39 AM
I was referring to the position of the sprocket bolts relative to the slots in the sprockets. Exhaust bolts are centered, intakes are at the end of the slots. Does this mean anything? It looks as if it would effect the cam timing.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 06, 2006, 01:57:57 PM
Quote from: D. Clay
I was referring to the position of the sprocket bolts relative to the slots in the sprockets. Exhaust bolts are centered, intakes are at the end of the slots. Does this mean anything? It looks as if it would effect the cam timing.


i realize that would effect cam timing...but can easily change that when im putting everything back together.. :)
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: mgold on September 06, 2006, 03:19:34 PM
nice pic...a bit washed out, but nice and clear.  Now if we can only get someone to document a complete teardown and rebuild of an M42 then life would be complete.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 06, 2006, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: mgold
nice pic...a bit washed out, but nice and clear.  Now if we can only get someone to document a complete teardown and rebuild of an M42 then life would be complete.


lol get the chilton manual for the 90-98 BMW 3 Series. It covers everything you need to know...this is what im going by.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: Eurospec on September 06, 2006, 11:39:29 PM
Good stuff Dennis... keep us posted on the progress.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 07, 2006, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: Eurospec
Good stuff Dennis... keep us posted on the progress.



hehe of course! I gotta get my friend to help me with the crankshaft nut..once i get that off, it goes to machine shop!
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: tim_s on September 07, 2006, 04:25:24 AM
you mean you didn't get the crankshaft nut off when the engine was in the car!? its waaay easier then!
what exactly are your plans for this engine?
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 07, 2006, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: tim_s
you mean you didn't get the crankshaft nut off when the engine was in the car!? its waaay easier then!
what exactly are your plans for this engine?


haha yeh i shoulda thought of that when it was still in the car...but i know how im going to approach the situation.

Plans:

-engine is going to be bored out to a 2.0
-M50 Lifters
-M44 Valves

And...whatever else needs to be replaced, which i hope will be minimal!
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: M42boy on September 08, 2006, 09:34:22 AM
Quote from: dude8383
pic just looks that way...nothing was blown of. It was a really smooth running motor, grandpa driven. Im assuming thats why the motor looks soo good.

How do i remove the camshafts??

Oh, the intake cam may have been advanced, i have no clue as i am tearing apart this motor for the first time. I got it with 140k, so i have no idea what its history is. I just know it wasn't driven hard!

That motor is CLEAN!!!  Nice work.  Replace only the "have to" stuff and get it back on the road!  :D

Should be good for another 140K.  Just make sure you follow BP's write up on the timing cases.  You want to use silicone gasket sealant along with new gaskets when you put the timing cases back.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 08, 2006, 12:15:47 PM
Quote from: M42boy
That motor is CLEAN!!!  Nice work.  Replace only the "have to" stuff and get it back on the road!  :D

Should be good for another 140K.  Just make sure you follow BP's write up on the timing cases.  You want to use silicone gasket sealant along with new gaskets when you put the timing cases back.


yeh i wanted to do that just to be on the safe side...i want a perfect seal!

I can't wait to swap this motor...
Title: The best.
Post by: D. Clay on September 08, 2006, 12:33:28 PM
Quote from: M42boy
You want to use silicone gasket sealant along with new gaskets when you put the timing cases back.
This stuff is the best. Wipes right off with an acetone soaked rag. Will seal Hewland and Weissman transmission cases without using any gaskets at all. It was sold under license by Permatex but they have discontinued it.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/ (http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/) Look under "Complete Index" link.
http://www.hylomar.co.uk/Gallery.htm (http://www.hylomar.co.uk/Gallery.htm)
Main site.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: nickmpower on September 08, 2006, 01:14:44 PM
whats the advantage of m44 valves?
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: Febi Guibo on September 08, 2006, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: dude8383
i want a perfect seal!


jeez, you sound like a walrus...

m44 valves are a little lighter than M42 valves (smaller stems).
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: nickmpower on September 08, 2006, 02:36:08 PM
well is there any difference between the 6mm valve stem m42 valves and the 6mm m44 valves?

edit: i guess not  http://realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=11341739820&showus=on
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: nickmpower on September 08, 2006, 02:39:14 PM
so are you using custom pistons or what?
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 08, 2006, 05:48:10 PM
s50 pistons :)
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 08, 2006, 05:52:06 PM
Quote from: nickmpower
well is there any difference between the 6mm valve stem m42 valves and the 6mm m44 valves?

edit: i guess not  http://realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=11341739820&showus=on


part number for e36 m44 intake valve - 11341739820   
part number for e30 m42 intake valve - 11341722908

Part numbers are different...so there has to be some difference!
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: silverblades181 on September 08, 2006, 06:28:43 PM
So whats the plan? just increased displacement or is there more to it? do the S50 pistons increase or lower the compression?
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: nickmpower on September 08, 2006, 06:57:53 PM
Quote from: dude8383
part number for e36 m44 intake valve - 11341739820   
part number for e30 m42 intake valve - 11341722908

Part numbers are different...so there has to be some difference!


well yeah the e30's have 7mm stems. I wanted to see if the 6mm m42 stems were different from the 6mm m44
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 08, 2006, 07:09:52 PM
Quote from: silverblades181
So whats the plan? just increased displacement or is there more to it? do the S50 pistons increase or lower the compression?


s50 pistons will increase compression...im shooting for at least 170 hp.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: nickmpower on September 08, 2006, 07:19:30 PM
well are you incresing storke at all? i would think it would be hard to get 2l with just s50 pistons
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 08, 2006, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: nickmpower
well are you incresing storke at all? i would think it would be hard to get 2l with just s50 pistons


yes of course! i have to increase stroke otherwise the pistons won't do what they're supposed to do.

I don't know what size, when i go to the machine shop ill make the dude give me the exact measurements that i need.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: shellback on September 09, 2006, 11:34:02 AM
Quick question amigos:
Crank (M44 or M47) + S50 pistons will provide what kind of performance increase #’s? Trying to see how cost effective it would be to go that route or just slap on a DASC.

Thanks,
Chris
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: Febi Guibo on September 09, 2006, 12:12:10 PM
M47 crank and S50 pistons will get you to around 180 hp (give or take) ...a dasc gets a little more, but the torque curve is much wider... there's a dyno sheet of the DASC install in the grassroots motorsports mag..
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: nickmpower on September 09, 2006, 12:13:40 PM
well the dasc was 189 i thought. and that was WHEEL hp
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: tim_s on September 09, 2006, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: Febi Guibo
M47 crank and S50 pistons will get you to around 180 hp (give or take) ...a dasc gets a little more, but the torque curve is much wider... there's a dyno sheet of the DASC install in the grassroots motorsports mag..


would be suprised if it gave quite this much. for example, hartge's 2.1 with cams, flowed head etc gave 170bhp, TDI's 2l conversion, with cams and headwork gives 170bhp. mine didn't feel like it had 180bhp with just the 2.1 bottom end (sadly i never had it r/r)
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: Febi Guibo on September 09, 2006, 02:34:13 PM
Quote from: nickmpower
well the dasc was 189 i thought. and that was WHEEL hp

hmmm...  could be...

http://www.downingatlanta.com/images/power&torque.PDF

on their comparison chart, the downing atlanta graph shows stock hp at right around 150 at 6500rpms, their unit at around 220hp... what did grassroots get on theirs? scan anyone?

tim: lol, I'm forever optimistic on the 2.1 L bottom end! :)
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: christophbmw on September 09, 2006, 08:47:13 PM
I havent posted in awhile but i do have a few questions.
My first questions is: If you bore the block out and put S50 pistons in with no M47 crank what kind of HP gains would I be looking at? just curious if anyone has done it without the M47 crank.

My second question is: Does a TMS, or Mark D chip effect the cars ability to smog in california, i know it has nothing to do with this thread but i figured i could get a quick answer, thanks!
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 10, 2006, 01:26:32 AM
Quote from: christophbmw
I havent posted in awhile but i do have a few questions.
My first questions is: If you bore the block out and put S50 pistons in with no M47 crank what kind of HP gains would I be looking at? just curious if anyone has done it without the M47 crank.

My second question is: Does a TMS, or Mark D chip effect the cars ability to smog in california, i know it has nothing to do with this thread but i figured i could get a quick answer, thanks!


i can't afford an m47 crank...so i will most likely be using the stock crank. Im not sure if its any gain, but i do have an m44 motor at my disposal as well.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: tim_s on September 10, 2006, 06:00:09 PM
haha febi, don't get me wrong there's a lot of power to be had, and the 2.1 transformed the car, just not particularly in terms of peak power. it picked up so much better though and pulled so much more srtongly from lower rpms.

On the chip and smog issue, my car has ITBs, a 2.1 etc and the idle has only been tuned by me using my wideband and timing adjusted to get a nice idle. it makes very little emissions at idle, i was surprised by the margins by which it got through the MOT (yearly test) here in the UK.

dude, fwiw i'd stick in the m44 crank for that bit more displacement. although they're not fully counterbalanced etc, that also means they're light, and they're proved strong by the amount of guys with turbos etc not having any trouble. just my opinion, am sure you'll get just as many praising the m42 forged fully counterbalanced crank over the m44 one. guess it depends how high you're going to rev too.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: christophbmw on September 11, 2006, 03:41:00 PM
Quote from: tim_s
dude, fwiw i'd stick in the m44 crank for that bit more displacement. although they're not fully counterbalanced etc, that also means they're light, and they're proved strong by the amount of guys with turbos etc not having any trouble. just my opinion, am sure you'll get just as many praising the m42 forged fully counterbalanced crank over the m44 one. guess it depends how high you're going to rev too.

I have another question, lets just say i wanted to put an M44 crank in my car, is that the only thing that increases the displacement on the M44......so it is basically a very MILD stroked M42, correct? What if i bored my block out, put S50 pistons in and an M44 crank, has anyone done this, I wonder what compression would be......just a thought.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: tim_s on September 11, 2006, 04:02:37 PM
M44 has a bigger bore too. TDI sell a kit in the UK that brings the M42 out to 2l using an M44 crank and some bigger pistons.
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: shellback on September 11, 2006, 04:23:47 PM
I wonder what the cost difference would be?

M44 or M47 crank. S50 pistons, and the machine shop to bore the block...
vs.
DASC on the M42 and let 'er rip
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 11, 2006, 05:07:20 PM
Quote from: tim_s
haha febi, don't get me wrong there's a lot of power to be had, and the 2.1 transformed the car, just not particularly in terms of peak power. it picked up so much better though and pulled so much more srtongly from lower rpms.

On the chip and smog issue, my car has ITBs, a 2.1 etc and the idle has only been tuned by me using my wideband and timing adjusted to get a nice idle. it makes very little emissions at idle, i was surprised by the margins by which it got through the MOT (yearly test) here in the UK.

dude, fwiw i'd stick in the m44 crank for that bit more displacement. although they're not fully counterbalanced etc, that also means they're light, and they're proved strong by the amount of guys with turbos etc not having any trouble. just my opinion, am sure you'll get just as many praising the m42 forged fully counterbalanced crank over the m44 one. guess it depends how high you're going to rev too.


well then, thats a good idea! i have an m44 that i can use parts from so this is great. Do i need to have it counter-balanced?

Paired up with the s50 pistons (86mm) the crank will fit with no issues?
Title: Somewhat of a teaser...
Post by: dude8383 on September 11, 2006, 05:08:23 PM
Quote from: shellback
I wonder what the cost difference would be?

M44 or M47 crank. S50 pistons, and the machine shop to bore the block...
vs.
DASC on the M42 and let 'er rip


the kits costs like $3500...if you could score an m42 dirt cheap, i think the boring and s50 pistons will be cheaper. BUT the DASC kit will give mo powa!!