M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: spanish_pants on May 30, 2010, 06:56:17 AM
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Hey all, i recently installed the Mustang injectors i bought. Installation was pretty straight forward with no problems, but the car is now running very rich. The smell of fuel from the tail end is nauseating.
Anyone have this problem?
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what are the part numbers on the injectors?
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I donīt have the part # right now, but they are these...
http://cgi.ebay.ca/8-BOSCH-19LB-19-LB-MPI-FUEL-INJECTORS-DESIGN-III-FORD_W0QQitemZ320538652863QQcategoryZ33554QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DDLSL%252BSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D320526415944%252B320526415944%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8171597919236596541
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Were the injectors exactly the same color? Do you live in the US? If they were in fact 19# injectors, you could have a sticking or failed injector in the batch. This is why i never buy 'reconditioned' injectors that people have messed with. I would rather take used injectors straight off the JY car.
EDIT:
This can also be a symptom of a failed or disconnected FPR vacuum hose. Its kind of tricky to reconnect once you had your manifold off.
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Actually iīm living in Spain currently. Ii picked these up while i was back home in Canada on business. All the injectors in the set appeared to be the same color.
We were in a bit of a rush to get this done as it was getting late, when i have some free time tomorrow iīll take the manifold off and look at the hoses to make sure theyīre all snug.
BTW which hose is the FPR hose?
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The vacuum hose from the FPR plugs into the side of the throttle body in a really stupid location. Hard to reach and easy to overlook.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/tjts2/bmw/Picture217.jpg?t=1275237082)
cheers
Justin
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Thanks Justin! Iīll go take a look at it now. If itīs not then iīll take the other set of 4 injectors to get tested and replace the ones i just put in.
Ok, it looks like itīs connected, so thatīs not the problem. On to plan B...
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UGH, thats annoying. It really shouldn't be running any different with the 19# injectors. Does the Spanish 318is have an O2 sensor and cat? If not, it really can't adjust for bigger injectors during closed loop. But again, you're using the same size injectors as stock.
EDIT:
The stock injectors are 192cc and the EV6 injectors you installed at 208cc. If your car isn't equipped with an O2 sensor, then it will be running ~7% rich compared to stock. The O2 sensor in the US market cars allows the fuel system to adapt to the slightly larger injectors during closed loop operation (light load), and then go into open loop at high load where you would want the additional fuel flow.
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i have the same injectors (155 746) off a late 90s s60 or s90, forget which
runs great. but i have a n. american car
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UGH, thats annoying. It really shouldn't be running any different with the 19# injectors. Does the Spanish 318is have an O2 sensor and cat? If not, it really can't adjust for bigger injectors during closed loop. But again, you're using the same size injectors as stock.
EDIT:
The stock injectors are 192cc and the EV6 injectors you installed at 208cc. If your car isn't equipped with an O2 sensor, then it will be running ~7% rich compared to stock. The O2 sensor in the US market cars allows the fuel system to adapt to the slightly larger injectors during closed loop operation (light load), and then go into open loop at high load where you would want the additional fuel flow.
Thanks for the info Justin, this is something i didn't know.
I canīt speak for all Euro 318īs, but mine didnīt come with a catalytic converter or O2 sensor. I suppose in those days it wasnīt mandated for european cars.
On the plus side, the car does run smoother and responds much better under acceleration. With it running this rich it i don't think it will pass the emissions test unless there is a solution.
Is there anyway to adjust the air/fuel mixture?
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I'd think about welding an O2 sensor bung in, maybe even use a wideband sensor. They're only $200 now and you'll get a great idea of what the car is doing. It'll improve your fuel economy as well. You don't need a cat to do it. Unless you're using leaded AvGas I don't think it'll be a problem.
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Thanks for the info Justin, this is something i didn't know.
I canīt speak for all Euro 318īs, but mine didnīt come with a catalytic converter or O2 sensor. I suppose in those days it wasnīt mandated for european cars.
On the plus side, the car does run smoother and responds much better under acceleration. With it running this rich it i don't think it will pass the emissions test unless there is a solution.
Is there anyway to adjust the air/fuel mixture?
I think O2 sensor and cat in europe depended on what country you were in and maybe options list. The ultimate solution in this case in Megasquirt but just to get you through emissions testing, you can adjust the AFM a bit but as mentioned above, you really need to have some kind of feedback from the exhaust.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzerdcib/e34a/id6.html
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I have until November until i have to pass my yearly inspection so i have some time to deal with this, but it looks like iīm going to have to put in the O2 sensor.
How difficult is it to weld the O2 bung in? I assume that after install the sensor in the car shouldnīt run as rich.
BTW, thanks everyone. This should help out all the other euro owners who want to run the mustang injectors as well.
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I don't know if you can just add an O2 sensor to the car. You would also need the ECU and wiring harness from a car that had an O2 sensor. Time to bust out the wiring diagrams.
http://www.autolib.diakom.ru/CAR/BMW/1991/318%20Series/WIRING%20DIAGRAMS/fig02.pdf
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Try changing the air door position. Add about 3-5 clicks of tension to the coil spring.
Maybe you could lean it with the airtemp sensor or HOH temp sensor. It would need to read about 20% hotter than real.
I would do the air meter thing first, followed by the air temp sender( In the AF meter), than the water temp sender,as it is under the intake. Look in t he book to see how much resistance value to change .
Ps I foregot, there is a air bypass screw under the plug on the AF meter. Maybe you can get some leaner by opening that up. You have to pull out the plug, ( soft lead). back out the allen screw. This only affects the very low end of rpm. MM
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Try changing the air door position. Add about 3-5 clicks of tension to the coil spring.
Maybe you could lean it with the airtemp sensor or HOH temp sensor. It would need to read about 20% hotter than real.
I would do the air meter thing first, followed by the air temp sender( In the AF meter), than the water temp sender,as it is under the intake. Look in t he book to see how much resistance value to change .
Ps I foregot, there is a air bypass screw under the plug on the AF meter. Maybe you can get some leaner by opening that up. You have to pull out the plug, ( soft lead). back out the allen screw. This only affects the very low end of rpm. MM
Thats what that little screw does? Whoaaa!
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What seemed like such a simple modification has become more complicated than expected.
Iīm going to ask around the spanish forums if anyone has an IS with cat and o2 sensor. Someone is always parting these cars out, with some luck i may be able to get the parts i need. If i canīt, then old injectors get a cleaning and go back in.
Thanks to everyone for the replies!
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They are a small difference. Try the small adjustments offered above first. There should be enough to get back the range that you need. IMHO.
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bro think about it... why should the car run really rich if you just swapped injectors for newer/better technology at almost the same flowrate.. it's probably something out of order.
and if it is indeed a flowrate problem (with not having an o2 sensor to adjust) and my understanding is correct (higher flow rate actually results in more lean, lower = more rich) then why not get the 22# ones.
anyways you don't need a cat or new exhaust pipe, just weld a $30 bosch o2 sensor in. it's not that hard or expensive. muffler shops are cheap
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bro think about it... why should the car run really rich if you just swapped injectors for newer/better technology at almost the same flowrate.. it's probably something out of order.
and if it is indeed a flowrate problem (with not having an o2 sensor to adjust) and my understanding is correct (higher flow rate actually results in more lean, lower = more rich) then why not get the 22# ones.
anyways you don't need a cat or new exhaust pipe, just weld a $30 bosch o2 sensor in. it's not that hard or expensive. muffler shops are cheap
Itīs a euro spec car with no cat from the factory that ran a little lean before the injectors went in.
I was just going to have the O2 sensor welded in and put in an ECU from a car that came with a cat. If i do this it should also allow me to run the MarkD chip iīve had sitting in a box for two years...i think :p
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oh i see, a parts car that came with one. i thought you were actually going to put a cat on your pipe, a 20 year old one
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oh i see, a parts car that came with one. i thought you were actually going to put a cat on your pipe, a 20 year old one
Iīm going to keep it as simple and as cheap as possible, so no cat.
My friend tells me that his IS has a catalytic converter but no O2 sensor...weird. Maybe the O2 sensor was a North American addition to meet emission standards?
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Iīm going to keep it as simple and as cheap as possible, so no cat.
My friend tells me that his IS has a catalytic converter but no O2 sensor...weird. Maybe the O2 sensor was a North American addition to meet emission standards?
These cars were built in the era where europe was just waking up to emissions controls and the EU hadn't standardized requirements across all countries yet. California cars have been required to have some kind of cat since 1972 but the rest of the US didn't catch up until the late 80s. I wouldn't be surprised to find all sorts of weird combinations over there depending on where the car was originally sold.
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Ok, i think i may have found what looks like the cable for the O2 sensor...it was behind the sofa the whole time!:D
Seriously now, it comes out from behind the plastic wiring harness cover and rests on the battery tray. From looking at pictures of the Bosh O2 sensor wires, the receptacles appear the same.
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which one are you going to buy? our 'oem' bosch is something like $160, which is almost as much as a fancy wideband (or so i've heard). someone on here said the cheapest bosch option was for the ford probe ($30) but only had 1 wire instead of our 3. i don't know what the extra ones are for, all the cars i've meddled with had a single wire. could someone explain why they charge different prices for o2 sensors for different cars, (when they're both econoboxes using the same 2 decade old technology)
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which one are you going to buy? our 'oem' bosch is something like $160, which is almost as much as a fancy wideband (or so i've heard). someone on here said the cheapest bosch option was for the ford probe ($30) but only had 1 wire instead of our 3. i don't know what the extra ones are for, all the cars i've meddled with had a single wire. could someone explain why they charge different prices for o2 sensors for different cars, (when they're both econoboxes using the same 2 decade old technology)
The four wire sensors come with a on board pre heater and also keep the sensor at a functional heat range until the car is fully warm
ground
signal
heater +
heater -
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There are a few options available for my car ranging from 71 to 120 and made by Bosch, Walker and FAE. Iīll go with Bosch since itīs more economical and itīs a name i recognise.
http://www.oscaro.es/lista.asp?ID_GENERIC_ARTICLES=3922&ID_OSC_TYPES=14523&ID_OSC_LEVELS=202