M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine management => Topic started by: 318lotis on May 20, 2010, 02:12:36 PM
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i drained out mobile1 10 40 high milage and then filled up on mobile1 0w 40,
my engine came alive and felt stronger, is anyone else out there using mobile1 0w 40 ?? i know the mobile1 web sight picks this oil as the best for the e30 318is.
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Mobil1 (no 'e' at the end) 0w40 is a waste of time unless its way below freezing outside. Stick with 5w40 or heavier. Their website is wrong.
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I use 0W40 but from a difrent brand.
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20W50 is the way to go
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I'm going out for oil later today. Been using Pennzoil 20w-50 but considering change to Castrol, mainly because of comments I've heard about Pennzoil. Which oil is best (dino oil)?
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I heard from a few people that 15w40 is best for the m42. Can anyone confirm this?
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20w50 is WAY too heavy for the m42. You're lucky the hydraulic lifters are still functioning properly.
10w40 is what you want to use in the summer.
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A lot of car manufacturers are filling with very light oils for a few more MPG. I don't think it'd be significant to change multi-grade oils. They all thin out at high temps and over the life of the oil. Maybe you had a plugged filter?
Mobil1 isn't bad oil, but it's not full synthetic. Some "synthetics" are also just a high grade of mineral oil that's been expensively processed. The fine print says "exclusive of carrier oil" or some such boiler plate. If you want a performance boost (slight though it may be), go with Redline or another genuine Group IV PAO engine lubricant like Amsoil. Until Group III+ hits the market (made from natural gas), Group IV is still the best for performance engines.
I haven't made up my mind about Royal Purple...not enough info, too much marketing.
I've also heard good things about Mobil Delvac, but primarily from the diesel geeks.
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It depends on the climate you live in. According to BMW's recommendations 15w-50 is by far the best choice for me. My average winter lows are around 40F, summer highs around 85-90F.
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I run 5w30 synthetic and it seems to do great! I might be wearing my motor out because its so thin but oh well.
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They guys at AutoWest told me they like to use 15W40 in the M42.
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There is no reason not to use a decent synthetic. You can run it 10000miles or more. It saves you money and down time while the engine will look like new inside forever. The 5or 10/40 Rotella cost 20$ a gal . Why would you use anything less? IMHO.
Most of the time that shops recommend a certain oil is that they can make some money on it. My shop makes very little on the Rotella.
MM
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A lot of people claim that switching from dino to synthetic in older cars can cause oil leaks if the engine seals are old.
Also, it concerns me when people say I use oil X. You mean year-round? Where do you live? Your choice of oil weight should involve a chart like this: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/engine-gear-oil-viscosity-temperature-limits-d_1545.html (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/engine-gear-oil-viscosity-temperature-limits-d_1545.html)
I've also been told that it's better to use a slightly lighter oil in engines with OHC like the M42. To me, this is B.S. When i pulled my valve cover, there was oil clinging to everything but the polished parts of the cams. I would think that more of a heavier oil will remain on the cams, which would compensate for the slightly longer time it takes a heavier oil to get pumped up to the cams.
I don't recommend a particular oil, because I'm still learning. I had 10w-40 in the car last winter, and I definitely won't do that again. I think that car would have turned over just as easily filled with oatmeal. But in the summer, 10w-40 works great. That's pennsylvania-our winters sucks and so do our summers.
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I live in Bradenton, FL.. I run Amsoil 0-30 in my e30 318is m42 and my e46 325xiT.. they both work superb. The m42 was running nothing but mobil 1 for years and years, but I prefer Ams.. I made the switch and I have no complaints.
I became a member on Ams website, and I can get oil for something like %20 off regular price. They are based in Orlando, so shipping is not too bad.. I usually buy by the case and save like $20 some dollars per order.
I even run Ams in my old 1985 Mercedes-Benz 300SD.. not 0-30 though.
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I was running the 15w40 but switched to 20w50 an it runs a lot quieter now. I live in Orlando and so far so good
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Next oil change ill be trying the Chevron 10w30 Super Synthetic. I've heard very good things.
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well, at 7000 miles and 3 months later, im doing the mobil1 0w 40 again, very good oil
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NOTHING wrong with a ow-40 or a 20w-40...its just a matter of CLIMATE
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Someone posted a link to a good read about oil here. I don't know where it is but the same article can be found at bobistheoilguy.com. I made a post about the M42 and after someone provided actual sump temps it seems 0w-30 or even 0w-20 may be best.
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So what would be the best oil for a winter where temps average anywhere from 0-35 degrees? 0w-40???
Been hearing great things from all my buddies about Rotella. Will be trying this next.
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Our average winter temps in SW PA are from 0-30 degF. I use synthetic 0w30 or 5w30 typically. 0w20 is too light for my high-mileage M42 IMHO. I don't get any lifter clatter at all, even on ice-cold -10degF starts. I use it year-round too, it's not really ever that hot here. We can get a few 90degF days but they're unusual.
I do have some oil leaks, but I'm not taking the front of the motor off for that stupid timing chain case rear gasket. Hot oil will find a way through any weak gasket regardless...I have yet to do a used oil analysis on the car, so I have no really solid numbers to back this info up.
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Yea, I live in Northwestern, OH. I am wondeirng if the 0w-40 would be a little bit thicker just to help with oil leaks? What would be the differences between said 0w30/5w30 or 0w40 oils?
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I usually listen for adequate flow at operating temps when figuring the best oil. I used to put in a pressure gauge but I'm too lazy for that now. I guesstimate with the second number for that, it describes the oil's viscosity when hot. From what I've read, the "base" oil is formulated from that warm temperature viscosity and then polymers (Viscosity Improvers) are added to increase cold flow. As a personal preference, I go with the smallest range of viscosity modifiers I can live with...5w30, for instance. If I get cold-start lifter clatter I'll get something with more VI's, like 0w30.
With the BMW I started with 40-weight (10w40) & worked my way down to 30-weight. The car didn't seem happy with 0w20, but that's just an opinion, no hard facts.
However, my minivan's 3.0 liter Ford V6 specs 0w20 year-round and seems pretty happy with that. I always use Mobil1, IDK if it's a real synthetic but IMHO it's decent oil and the price is right (Wally World is usually around $28/5L). My old motorcycle runs well on 10w40, but the clutch won't lock up properly unless it has non-"energy conserving" oil (the bike shares motor oil with a wet clutch & transmission). Depends on the motor, that's what I'm trying to get at.
I'm also running thin oils to help with fuel mileage. BMW uses a sliding scale for oil viscosity. They spec 10w40 for expected winter temps (-20 to +50 degF) and 20w50 for expected summer temps (15 to 125 degF). Very thick oil, that. They don't make any adjustment for synthetics in original literature.
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I'm also running thin oils to help with fuel mileage. BMW uses a sliding scale for oil viscosity. They spec 10w40 for expected winter temps (-20 to +50 degF) and 20w50 for expected summer temps (15 to 125 degF). Very thick oil, that. They don't make any adjustment for synthetics in original literature.
I think 20w50 is way too thick. The manuel was written 20 some years ago and I feel a lot has changed since then. My speculation is the heavy oil was recommended to resist shearing and to preform under HTHS (high temp high stress). Looking at the oils that fill BMW's current requirements they seem to place great importance on the HTHS number. With todays oil you can get a high quality synthetic all the way down to 0w-20 or 0w-30 with a HTHS number around 3.0. bobistheoilguy.com has more information on oil that you could ever cram into your brain and is worth looking at.
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I think 20w50 is way too thick. The manuel was written 20 some years ago and I feel a lot has changed since then.
I think BMW spec'd higher viscosity oil for proper lifter and chain tensioner operation, components who's designs have not changed (yes, I realize the tensioner piston was revised in the early 90's for better durability) in the last 20 years. What has changed is the design of these types of components in order to accommodate the use of thin oils.
Thin oil promotes better fuel economy, and that is why most if not all manufacturers have begun to specify it's use exclusively.
Do yourselves and your engine a favor and pick the oil that is spec'd in your manual for the climate you anticipate driving in.
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I think BMW spec'd higher viscosity oil for proper lifter and chain tensioner operation, components who's designs have not changed (yes, I realize the tensioner piston was revised in the early 90's for better durability) in the last 20 years. What has changed is the design of these types of components in order to accommodate the use of thin oils.
Thin oil promotes better fuel economy, and that is why most if not all manufacturers have begun to specify it's use exclusively.
Do yourselves and your engine a favor and pick the oil that is spec'd in your manual for the climate you anticipate driving in.
The whole argument over climate is stupid. I don't care where you live the oil is going to be too thick at startup. The oil thickness at operating temp is what matters. As you can see from this chart the viscosity of all of these oils is the same where it counts. Furthermore, how is an oil that is thicker at startup going to help the lifters and tensioner? An oil that is resistant to flow is going to take longer to reach these parts at startup.
Where do you draw the line when it comes to what the manual calls for? If I had a Stanley steamer that called for sperm whale oil or whatever is that what is best for the engine?
Oil type... Thickness at 75 F...Thickness at 212 F
Straight 30...... 250......................10
10W-30............100......................10
0W-30..............40 ......................10
http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12307 (http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12307)
If you have time you should read through this article. I thought it was quite convincing.
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0w40..crazy.. its like running with water at cold start. u must live in Alaska to need 0w40. 5 or 10 is fine.
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0w40..crazy.. its like running with water at cold start. u must live in Alaska to need 0w40. 5 or 10 is fine.
I had the same misconceptions as you until I read this article. ALL OIL IS TOO THICK AT STARTUP! Even 0w http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12307 (http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12307)
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still, i'll never use 0 in CA unless i live where there is snow. thanks for the share though
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..how is an oil that is thicker at startup going to help the lifters and tensioner? An oil that is resistant to flow is going to take longer to reach these parts at startup.
I wasn't referring to oil viscosity at startup, and in fact didn't mention at all. You did.
BMW is one of the most renowned engine designers/manufacturers in the world. I simply suggested following BMW's recommendations for oil selection, rather than making an uneducated judgement (AT LEAST from a mechanical standpoint) that the oil the engine manufacturer specified is "too thick".
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I need to run a pressure gauge at operating temp and collect some good data. We can talk this to death without any result unless solid, objective, repeatable data is posted & analyzed. On top of that, every motor is different. Even M42s will vary from car to car. My 278k mile motor, sitting outside in freezing rain will be quite a bit looser than some low-mileage garage queen!
Despite that, all the motor oils I've tried were very good. A few are excellent. Filters are another matter entirely.
I've also been over at BITOG checking out the details, but there's so much detail it's overwhelming. I do have a life outside of a car...so I'm not going all obsessive about motor oil.
So until I get some hard proof, I'm sticking with the thinner synthetics. The car just sounds better, and the motor is spotless inside. Good enough for me so far. I picked up a sample kit from Blackstone to see what my minivan is doing internally, I'll share results if I get to the M42.
I'm planning on using RLI veggie oil (http://www.renewablelube.com/) next, as soon as I run out of my current synthetic stocks. Saving the planet, one oil change at a time...
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We can talk this to death without any result unless solid, objective, repeatable data is posted & analyzed.
I totally concur. So until said data materializes, I'm going to stick with BMW's recommendations!
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I wasn't referring to oil viscosity at startup, and in fact didn't mention at all. You did.
BMW is one of the most renowned engine designers/manufacturers in the world. I simply suggested following BMW's recommendations for oil selection, rather than making an uneducated judgement (AT LEAST from a mechanical standpoint) that the oil the engine manufacturer specified is "too thick".
You said thicker oil was better for the lifters and tensioner. I was just wondering how an oil that takes longer to get to the lifters is better. The majority of engine wear occurs at startup so I want an oil that is going to get to all the parts quickly.
Like Dave said you need a pressure and temp gauge to be sure. Lucky I found someone who did just that. The sump temps were quite low.
Oil pressure is another place where people have misconceptions. Most people think more is better. Pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. You want your oil to flow. The point of having oil in your engine is to #1 cool and #2 lubricate. 10psi per 1000rpm is a good rule of thumb. I've also seen 75psi @6000rpm used.
Also, Im not making an "uneducated judgment". There is a member of this forum who uses Shell Rotela 5w-40 thats speced for diesel engines and he's a petro chemist. Just because someone isn't using the 15w-50 or 20w-50 dino oil that the owners manuel calls for doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.
Bottom line. Is 20w-50 going to hurt the engine? NO. Is it the best oil for the engine? No.
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Listen, if you're worried about engine wear at startup use synthetic oil. It clings to engine internals better and longer than mineral based oils regardless of viscosity.
The reason I'm guessing BMW's suggestion for higher viscosity oils for the m42 has to do with it's hydraulic components is because as an experienced engine builder I know that the clearance specs for journals/bearings, pins, valve guides, etc. are all very similar to any other engine out there. I also know that hydraulic components are one of the few things that have been re-engineered in recent years to function properly using lower viscosity oils.
Bottom line: the best oil for the engine is the oil specified by the engine designer, not a petro chemist or a driveway engineer.
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Bottom line: the best oil for the engine is the oil specified by the engine designer, not a petro chemist or a driveway engineer.
On a new car I would tend to agree with this.
The engine designer recommended the best oil (who knows what compromises were made) available at the time. Thats the key.
The oils that were available 20+ years ago when the M42 was developed no longer exist. Every oil that is on the market now is different, they meet entirely different industry standards. There were additives common in oil then that are completely omitted from todays oil. The base stock used in many of todays oil and many of the additives didn't exist. They are also better quality. From cheap Penzoil Yellow Bottle to the most expensive synthetic, they are all better than what was on the market when the M42 was designed.
What you are suggesting is the equivalent of finding a piece of software from 20 years ago then looking for a 386 to run it. Just because something was once the best option doesn't mean it will always be the best option. It's like the analogy I gave about the Stanley Steamer. I doubt anyone would say that the oil the engine designer recommended is still the best option.
The 80's were a long time ago. Technology has come a long way. Engine oils are no exception.
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I wonder what BMW's engine guys would have to say about this.
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Lmfao
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I suspect everyone is correct on this one. Oil threads never get to a solution, there are too many variables and preferences. Factory spec dino oil is more than adequate for our engines. Thinner synthetics will absolutely free up some power and fuel economy. Extending the effective life of your engine is the kicker though...there are many ways to skin that particular cat.
I'd highly recommend going over to BITOG (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/). They have hundreds if not thousands of members testing every conceivable aspect of lubricants. They have chemical engineers, powertrain designers, shadetree mechanics and obsessive car guys all trying to get the most out of their oil. Took me a while to figure bits of it out - and I still have trouble with their acronyms...EDI (extended drain interval) is the one I've been focusing on myself.
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nm
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IMHO it is impossible to make oil viscosity same at 0 deg C and at 90deg C (normal engine operating temperature). So there is compromises made as mentioned before. Engineers specified viscosity for normal engine temperature and with this temperature engine works longer than with 0. So 0W30 oil is better than just W30, because oil viscosity at low temperature is closer to specified at 90deg C and engine have better lubrication.
I agree that there is no point to use 0W30 oil there outside temperature is 20deg C or more.
I prefer 10W60 for summer time(~25deg C) for my project car and 0w40 for my daily 318is m44 (Sumer/winter -30/+30deg C).
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i've been running Penrite (aussie made) semi-syntetic 0w40 for a year now and the engine loves it. I live in Perth, australia and it get over 35 degC regularily here for about 6 moths. the car has been loving this oil, but i do change it every 5-6000km (3-4k miles) and my engine has done 180k kms (almost 120k miles)
This oil has been highly recommendd for the zinc content it has, but whenever i drain it, it comes out properly black. not sure why
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Hi there. I'ma 31i8 Is (E36) owner as well as of a 2002ti (1969).
I wanted to ask you guys if anyone ever used a 10w60 synthetic racing oil such as Selenia Racing in an M42/M44.
I have used this on my Fiat Uno Turbo and on my Alfa 33 1.7 with very very good results but am somehow cautious about putting it in my 318is, especially after reading the thread above.
Any opinions & suggestions are welcome.
Regards
Quentin
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Opinions on oil are very strongly held, most times. I'd say that any synthetic is a pretty good idea. OTOH, conventional oil is nearly as effective. I'd say go for it, let us know how it works out.
I'd also strongly recommend the forums over at BITOG...there is more good information there that I could digest in a year.