M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: arcter on April 26, 2010, 07:22:48 PM
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Ok guys, this is starting to really bug me. The car is still going through quite a bit of coolant. In the past week it's gone down an inch or so. The shop that put in the new radiator said that the cooling system held pressure. I don't see anything in the oil, and I don't get smoke while driving. I do get some in the morning but it mostly looks blue. Car drives perfectly fine. Any ideas? No leaks either.
Other problems: rough running when first started when cold, stops after a few seconds of giving it throttle.
Temp gauge shows car as 1/4 usually, never middle.
Idle fluctuates between 600-900.
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So long as your system has been properly bled, you know it's going either in or out. To check for internal leaks I'd pull my plugs and look for white chalky deposits. For external leaks I'd take a hard look at things under the intake manifold based on what I've read here.. I'd also go get a large piece of white plastic, like maybe a huge garbage sack, and park on it overnight.
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Temp gauge shows car as 1/4 usually, never middle.
To solve this problem you'll have to replace the thermostat.
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Another test you could do is borrow a coolant system pressure tester. Pull your spark plugs and pressurize the coolant system overnight. Put about 15 - 17 psi pressure on it. After sitting overnight, check your cylinders with a flashlight and see if there is any coolant in them. You may have just a slight leak into your cylinders that's enough to make your coolant slowly disappear but not enough to smoke. If there is coolant, then you can suspect head gasket or cracked head. If there is not, then you can probably rule those possibilities out.
Where do you live? If you're somewhere reasonably nearby maybe I can come by and check it out.
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If you can't see the leak, then it must be burning it....
Look for white plugs, it takes about 1/2 gal coolant lost at one tank of fuel to turn the plugs white.
Pull the head, You wont trust this car untill you have. Get on with it.
IMHO. MM
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Okay guys, here's the deal.
I pressurized the system and found water in the cylinders. Not much, but obviously enough. I am suspecting a head gasket job. Lots of smoke comes out the back now, more after adding the pressure. So I'm certain I have to pull the head.
So I'm at least going to do that. I bought an extra cyl. head for insurance and I'll buy the head gasket this week. I have a few questions though. The person I need to have do this job isn't immediately available, I think because of finals coming up (college student). Anyway, he's the only way I can get this done because he's so much cheaper. How long can I safely run with this condition before I do damage to the engine? I know if it overheats I could crack or warp the head, but I have that extra as insurance for that reason. But is there other damage I could do that would be irreparable or super-expensive?
Here's the other question. Should I think about doing a full or partial rebuild? If so, which one? I think I am burning some oil, but it could just be valve guide seals because I only see the smoke in the morning. But a while ago when I had my cold starting problem when cold a shop told me it was likely carbon buildup and they recommended new valve lifters and a valve job. I'm starting to wonder if the cold start problem is just related to the coolant issue and maybe this diagnosis was wrong...
Any ideas? Thanks!
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The bottom ends seem pretty tough on these motors. If you have to run it a bit longer you can, but it'll probably get worse the longer you run it.
The last car I saw like this was a 318ti my co-worker bought. It ended up being a cracked head, but he had the symptom of cylinder pressure going back through the coolant system (BIG bubbles coming out of the expansion tank) I'd say probably just a blown head gasket and maybe a warped head, hard to say though. Good move on getting the extra insurance.
If you dont mess with anything bottom end, you may want to at least inspect your timing components since you'll have the head off already.
Or.... build it up and boost it! :D
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Hey thanks for the reply Blue. So if I run it a few weeks or so more, what will I most likely end up having to do? Just wanting to make sure I won't mess anything up beyond repair (or at least beyond repair for reasonable $$$).
Just want to know what would be the smartest. My timing chain stuff is all new, as is the radiator... and a bunch of new hoses and stuff. Basically I just want to make it as reliable as possible at this point! I have a daily commute of about 80miles round trip. It's been doing it but I've put quite a bit of money into the car so far and now just want to make it reliable as it can be. I know it's not a Civic but I knew that before I bought it ;)
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If you are going to keep the thing, do the chain and rails as you do the head. Some of these have a very minute corrosion leak, some leak between the center cyls, some have the profile leak . I have money on the center leak.
If you address the head, chains and tighten the oil pump stuff up, the only other thing that will stop the car, is the fuel tank and pump.IMHO. MM
PS I would not run it that far pushing water. As soon as the oil gets milky white, the rod bearing will start to go away
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Oil isn't milky white yet, haven't noticed that at all. I'll keep an eye on it and keep checking it each day. I'll definitely stop driving it once I see that.
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I'm having the same damn issue. Haven't done a pressure test yet....need to find someone I can borrow a tester from. I'm getting coolant dropping about an inch below the KALT mark, but my temperature is spiking at the 3/4 mark.
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I don't recommend driving it as the coolant can find its way into your oil as already discussed. However, if you have to drive it, I'd loosen the radiator cap so it doesn't pressurize. That will keep the hot coolant from being forced into the engine when its not running and also help prevent the cylinder pressure from overpressurizing your cooling system and causing more damage.
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How obvious is the mixture of oil and coolant on the dipstick when it's gotten bad enough not to drive? I definitely haven't seen what I'd call "chocolate milk" yet.
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I'd say chocolate milk on the bottom side of the oil filler cap is a better indication for you at this point.
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Yeah I see nothing on either the stick or oil filler cap.
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I just helped a friend put a head on his 318ti. It wasn't too bad of a job really, and his was the E36 version with the crazy hard intake manifold! I don't know if this is a job you want to tackle yourself or pay someone to do, but it shouldn't be too bad.
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Haha, well I have very little experience (next to none) working on cars to be honest. I'd probably mess something up. Legos are difficult enough for me!
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I say drive it, but be wary of your coolant level/ temp guage/ oil filler cap status. I grew up on a farm though.
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Well hopefully you have someone good and cheap to work on it for you.:d
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I do - it's just a matter of getting a hold of him. Just hoping to drive it for a few more weeks while I wait. Thanks for the advice guys.
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good luck
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Hey guys, one more question. What parts should I be buying in preparation for the work I need to do to the car? If I can get a hold of the mechanic guy, I'd like to be as prepared as possible because it might be hard to get him again. Thanks.
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Hey guys. Last week on Friday was the last time basically that I drove the car. No sign of chocolate milk on the dipstick or oil cap then. Anyway, I got home and parked it and actually didn't drive it at all until this morning. I started it a couple times on the weekend just to make sure it would and it did. But this morning I had a lot of smoke and I just checked the oil tonight and I have definite chocolate milk in the oil. So I'm not going to drive it at all obviously. I didn't notice anything weird as far as driving it went this morning so I'm probably safe as far as not doing any big damage to the engine right?
Thanks!
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Fix the C-milk ASAP.
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Guys, what parts do I need to buy assuming it's a head gasket job? Thanks. My mechanic friend may be able to come out next weekend, but unfortunately not this weekend. I'm not going to drive it obviously.
BTW, does the c-milk do damage to the car sitting there while not being driven? Obviously I'll drain everything when it's fixed but I'm just making sure it's not ruining the car to be sitting for a week and a half.
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any updates on this?
im in orange county maybe i can come out and help you out
:)
im not a mechanic or anything but i can give you a hand :)
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Hey thanks for the offer! Actually I had a guy I met during my 944 Turbo ownership work on the car and it's almost all back together. Turned out my head was cracked in two places and the profile gasket also looked suspect. I replaced the bad head with a resurfaced one with a valve job. We'll see how it all worked out on Monday!
How's your car doing by the way? Thanks again for the a/c compressor, it was quick and easy.
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no problem, its going good just my ac doesnt work, im suspecting the ac relay...but if not im going to have to check into it...
yeah no problem...did you get a chance to test it in your car? it worked fine on mine...just want to make sure...cracked heads are no fun..i sold my spare head with some bent valves now i kind of regret it i could have had it as a spare since i know m42 heads are known to crack
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I'm waiting to get some other part my mechanic says I need, something that goes on top of the a/c compressor? Yeah I'm glad I bought the extra head! Got it for dirt cheap too.
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I'm waiting to get some other part my mechanic says I need, something that goes on top of the a/c compressor? Yeah I'm glad I bought the extra head! Got it for dirt cheap too.
oh you mean where the line connects to????
i thought you had your old compressor so you could swap it...cause the one that came with the car didnt come with the cover...
yeah i sold my spare head for 50 bucks....which i regret now it didnt have any cracks at all...just needed to be resurfaced...
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Yeah! Any idea where I can find one? I had no compressor in there, threw it away cause it seized up.
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Yeah! Any idea where I can find one? I had no compressor in there, threw it away cause it seized up.
yeah you should give the guys at mesa performance a call they usually are good with helping you find parts...they found some parts for me
they are open from 9-6 i believe
1-949-642-8824
or email
info@mesaperformance.com
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thanks!
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Hey there, i'm not sure, but i think i might have a cracked head or something like that.
I'm loosing the coolant (0.2-0.3l - 1000km), if i check the plugs, on two of them is the oily thing, but can't see the choco milk, and oil is not loosing at this time.
I will drive it for a few weeks, and will see if it turns bad or not, maybe it's something other. The best thing is to test the pressure you say ? :)
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My head cracked about 2 months into owning my 'is. It was fall when it happened, but my symptoms were:
Losing coolant
Lack of heat with heater on
White smoke from exhaust under throttle
Note that mine leaked into the engine, but it can also leak out.
I shut it down at the first sign of smoke, found a guy locally that specialized in bmw's, and ended up replacing the head with one that had been resurfaced, and had a valve job. Total cost was $1700.
If you do the job yourself, inspect the head VERY carefully. The crack in mine was TINY!
As far as parts, you'll need:
Head gasket
Intake Gaskets (upper and lower)
Valve cover gasket
Timing gaskets
Thermostat
Thermostat housing gasket
Radiator Hoses
Head bolts (or studs if you want to upgrade)
Cam locking tool would be nice to have
Also a good time to tackle timing components
Timing chain
Guides
Tensioner
Cam sprokets
And, if you haven't done it already, bypass the heater plate on the throttle body take a look here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742)
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Thanks for all the help guys. Since I got the car back on the road, the coolant level was staying flat at the kalt line consistently. However, today I checked it and it was about 1/2 inch below. I have noticed some little leaks under my car from time to time so I'm going to check those out and see if it may be a coolant leak rather than burning it again... that'd be awful. I had the head resurfaced and a valve job done and everything.
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(http://i45.tinypic.com/21eb9yo.jpg)
What's this leak coming from? I know it might be condensation from the new A/C in my car but it's also the first time I've noticed my coolant level drop so I'm wondering if it has anything to do with it. It appears to be water, not coolant. I have a couple other leaks (oil/power steering) but I don't know where the coolant is going, if anywhere at all. No smoke out of the exhaust.
BTW, anyone have experience with the Victor Reinz gaskets? That's what I used on my car.
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It's hell on bearings. Don't risk driving it. Mine survived about 20 - 30 miles with coolant in the cylinder. She'll fight another day.
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It's hell on bearings. Don't risk driving it. Mine survived about 20 - 30 miles with coolant in the cylinder. She'll fight another day.
Oh no, I don't see any coolant in the oil or anything like that. I did a head gasket job + valve job, and everything was looking good until today (few weeks later), when the level dropped a bit. I've driven it 1000 miles so far.
EDIT: I just realized I maybe didn't update the thread - I had the whole head gasket job + valve job done a few weeks ago. It's been running great and the coolant level was steady, but today it dropped a bit. I'll check tomorrow to see if it's dropped some more, I really hope not. Maybe just a coolant hose?
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Did you bleed all the air out of the system? Keep a sharp eye out for chocolate milk and white smoke, but my guess is you had an air bubble in the coolant somewhere. That spot looks like it is about right for a/c. touch your finger to it, coolant feels greasy or slippery. It also has a distinct smell, especially when hot.
Gotta keep the thread up to date man, some of us loose sleep when an m42 is on deathwatch!
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Well a shop did the work but yeah, I'm sure they did, and it was nice and steady for a few weeks. I'll keep the thread up to date.
EDIT: Car's OK! Think I'm just paranoid :#