M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
FAQ / REFERENCE => How-To's => Topic started by: Euro Nation on August 23, 2006, 02:03:15 AM
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I was asked a couple weeks ago to do a writeup on these motor mounts. I finally got to do them today along with a ton of other stuff. So here it is.
Needed:
Floorjack and jackstands
17mm socket, rachet, extensions
Block o' wood
Grinder, hacksaw... something for cutting
x2 E28 528 motor mounts. 11 81 1 175 735 I got them from Autohausaz.com
x2 Steel spacers for the upper stud as the E28 stud is longer, 93320A321 from mcmaster.com (I cut some aluminum spacers on my lathe but these will work)
Lift the car and support it with jackstands and wheel chocks.
Remove your fan shroud hardware if you still have a fan. You don't need to remove the fan or shroud, just remove the hardware so the shroud can move when you lift the engine.
Loosen the upper motor mount nut on whichever side you're comfortable with. I went pass side. The pass side top nut can be tricky. I did it from under the car using a long handled swivle headed rachet. Once the top is undone undo the bottom nut. Place the wood block on your jack and raise the engine by the oil pan. Only raise it enough to fish the motor mount out. Watch your trans mounts... if they look stressed you may want to loosen them. Mine are new, they took it just fine.
Now for the cut. The E28 mount is offset like the M42 mount but the locating tab on the bottom is on the opposide side. Hold the two side by side an you'll see what I mean. Use a hacksaw or whatever you have to remove the tab. See image.
(http://www.euronationmotorsport.com/misc/mounts%20007.jpg)
Now fish it back into place (you'll probably have to lift the engine more). Rotate it into position. Slowly lower the engine back onto the mount making sure the studs go into the holes. Place the steel spacer from McMaster over the top stud followed by the washer and nut. See image.
(http://www.euronationmotorsport.com/misc/mounts%20008.jpg)
Repeat on the other side, except over here you can get to the top nut from the top of the engine compartment. Re-install fan shroud hardware.
Pat yourself on the back. You just replaced both your motor mounts for about $60 including shipping and the whole job probably took me under 45min.
Some people have said that these may cause more engine vibration in the interior. I've found this, at least in my case, to be untrue as I was replacing two VERY bad original motor mounts. My car is much smoother now.
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i think those are e21 mounts
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Nope. Original applications for this mount are:
E24 633CSi
E24 635CSi
E28 533i
E28 535i
E28 528e
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well the e28 mounts are green and the e21 ones are black
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Hmmm odd. They LOOK like E28 ones, but yeah the E28 ones are usually green.
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the e21 ones look like the e28 ones except black and a little smaller
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Black, green... can't we all just get along? You guys need to stop basing so much on the color of the skin of the mounts and on the person deep inside the mount.
The part number you guys are used to is the 1/87 and later number. I used the 1/87 and earlier part number. The color is different and the price is $21 less per mount. The function is the same. I think using the green ones means you don't have to use the spacer... which didn't seem worth a $42 price hike to me.
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if you say so, but i just got the e21 mounts from my room and they have the same PN. I guess they are e28 and e21 mounts?
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E21 -
Left mount: 11 81 1 175 541
Right mount: 11 81 1 175 542
E21 mounts are also usually green. Where did you get the mounts you have? Is it possible you got the wrong ones?
E21 mounts should look like this:
(http://images1.drivewire.com/live/A700015718OES.JPG)
Early E28:
(http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/A700027449CRP.JPG)
Late E28:
(http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/A700015715.JPG)
M42 mount:
(http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/A700073234OES.JPG)
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hmmm thats funny. I ordered them from bma i think
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quick question...do you have to use the spacer?
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If you don't then the nut bottoms out on the threads before it clamps the mount in place.
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Excellent write-up!
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Thanks! It will come in handy soon.
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I freaked when I saw the cost of M42 mounts - $166 from BMA for two (includes shipping). I've heard that they are silicon or something filled and absorb a lot of vibration from the 4-cyl. The E21 and E28 mounts are at least $100+ cheaper. Has anyone ever replaced 15 year old M42 mounts with the OEM's. I've always (hey, I've had a Beemer for four years) heard that the E21 and E28's carry a lot more vibration into the car. Mine are original and look pretty "squished".
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I'm trying to decide if I should go this route as well. The solid rubber mounts can be harsh, especially on cold start ups. I'm wondering what kind of effects the additional vibration will have on the engine, if any.
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I'm trying to decide if I should go this route as well. The solid rubber mounts can be harsh, especially on cold start ups. I'm wondering what kind of effects the additional vibration will have on the engine, if any.
im going a year already and no problems..the mounts really don't make the vibration harsh at all. You only feel it at idle...and even then its definitly something you can live with.
Sam has drivin my car, ask him what he thinks. Jay (Thumper) has the E21 mounts..ask him as well about the difference in vibration.
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if your stock mounts are fine and you change to the e28 mounts you WILL NOT notice any difference, ie what happend to me, so i really doubt there is any significant increase in vibration if there is any at all.
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For the record, what are the advantages of the E28 motor mounts?
Is it just a cheap replacement for the more expensive M42 mounts?
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For the record, what are the advantages of the E28 motor mounts?
Is it just a cheap replacement for the more expensive M42 mounts?
You can buy everything to do thw whole job for a little more than 1/4 the cost of using M42 replacement mount.
I'd imagine they last a bit longer and take abuse better too since they're spec'ed for an engine twice the size of the M42 and in a much heavier chassis.
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You can buy everything to do thw whole job for a little more than 1/4 the cost of using M42 replacement mount.
I'd imagine they last a bit longer and take abuse better too since they're spec'ed for an engine twice the size of the M42 and in a much heavier chassis.
True dat. The M42 will never put enough torque to wear out these mounts. And that's the whole idea, that you just set it and forget it!
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I've heard of people running both the E21 and E28 mounts (both which work well from what I understand). Any advantage to one over the other??
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I think I may have found an answer to the color variance.
One of the E28 motor mounts has a unique hexagonal shape. These mounts come in different colors (which are painted on, they are not molded into the rubber). The color is an indication of the stiffness of the mounts. The color/stiffness combinations are not available to me at this time.
Linkified (http://e30m3performance.com/installs/installs-2/motor_mounts/mounts3.htm)
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Upon further investigation, all vendors with the exception of Autohausaz show two differently designed mounts for the e28.
1) p/n 11811132793 Late E28 (535i From Production 1/1987)
(http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/4070/2000559502932528826_rs.jpg)
2) p/n 11811175735 Early E28 (535i Thru 12/1986)
(http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/3081/2000533763116861156_rs.jpg)
Has anyone installed the later? Is there any difference between the two other than their prices.
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I found several vendors that used the same lookup as Autohaus.
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the green ones are the mounts you should be using.
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Odd... for some reason some of the vendors now show the picture of the round one. Meh... honestly... any BMW motor mount with offset studs will work. You can use the green ones. If I did another car tomorrow I'd use the same mounts I did on my car, the black ones from autohaus/worldpac.
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interesting thread guys! thanks!
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there is a thread on another forum which says if you want to uprate your engine mounts for more solid ones you can use ones of a ford of some sort! give me a mo an il try an find the link
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Has anyone here had the (supposedly) infamous problem with the engine mounting ears cracking off of the subframe? M20 guys have had this issue. A stiffer mount probably is not something that would help ni that department. After using these mounts on this car for 9 months I saw no cracks there, but who knows.
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Febi might have to deal with that with all of his new found HP under the hood :)
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When I pulled mine apart there was a large washer under the lower nut on the drivers mount. It looks like it pulled through at one point.
The next time I have it apart I'm going to weld in the TMS braces.
The lower ones in this pic which weld into the motor mount area.
(http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/suspension/suspension_e30_sfrk_lg.jpg)
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Which of these mounts will bolt in without shims and minimal or no grinding of tabs?
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Which of these mounts will bolt in without shims and minimal or no grinding of tabs?
The green boys. Bear in mind you will feel more NVH as our 4 pots aren't silky smooth like the 6 pots. I have them and like them and noticed the increase in NVH. Doesn't bother me but I have anal friends and picky passengers who comment on them after they notice the vibrations at idle.
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I'm using the M40B18 mounts?? PN 11 81 1 129 286
They look more like the E21 mounts then the E28 mounts..
These are what I'm using for my M42... Been using them using I threw out my old M40B18 and replaced it with the E36 M42B18 from an 95 318ti 4 years ago...
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I'm using the M40B18 mounts?? PN 11 81 1 129 286
They look more like the E21 mounts then the E28 mounts..
These are what I'm using for my M42... Been using them using I threw out my old M40B18 and replaced it with the E36 M42B18 from an 95 318ti 4 years ago...
Did you have to use any shims or anything like that? They certainly are cheap at only $10 a piece. I also like that they're from a 4 pot, I'm kinda concerned about the extra vibrations.
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Did you have to use any shims or anything like that? They certainly are cheap at only $10 a piece. I also like that they're from a 4 pot, I'm kinda concerned about the extra vibrations.
only used a couple of shims on the right mount. none on the left mount. Vibration... been using these since day one and been thru more than 10 trackdays and a few auto-X. I don't have a comparison on the vibration as I haven't tried any other mounts but it have been good, so far.
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So are there any mounts, aside from the $100 a side original M42 mounts that don't require shimming?
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I used late model E28 mounts(green).
Easy install, no shimming,
glass beaded my motor mount arms while I had them off.
(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1538/318dsa021zg3.th.jpg) (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=318dsa021zg3.jpg)
Little more vibs in the car not bad at all. Firms up shifts greatly.
HUnter
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The pass side top nut can be tricky. I did it from under the car using a long handled swivle headed rachet.
Can you show me a pic of what you used? I'm not quite sure what you're describing. I just tried getting to that top nut, I can't get a stubby or regular wrench on it, sockets are obviously hopeless, and it's pissing me off! :mad:
Would this do it?
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&pid=00942482000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Wrenches&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
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Wow.. it's funny when I get a PM in here because I haven't looked at the forum in months. I wanted to stick around after I got rid of my car but we had all that downtime and I never got back into it.
For the tools, that wrench should work. I used something similar to this: (http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/a2/14/2a0e7161a78a7fa885bdbdc15ab09eea1-resized200.jpg)
the green mounts shown above will be the more prefered versions as they're easier to modify for fitment. The price is still far less than the M42 mounts. It's odd that everyone besides Autohaus shows a different mount since the pics I stole came from WorldPac which is where most web based companies get their parts.
Regardless, the green mounts have been proven to work several times so they're the best option when in doubt.
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I swapped back to good condition stock mounts as I was about to sell my Sedan. NVH did increase and decrease when I had the mounts in and went back to stock for those of you who daily drive and have wives/gfs or are concerned about such matters.
FWIW - A reputable BMWCCA club racer stated the factory m42 mount is STRONGER than the green jobbies. Yes they do cost more, but they are worth it. He sheared the e28 mounts and actually uses the hydraulic mounts in his e36 race car.
Taking them off - I don't remember using any super tools but I'll check again when I get home.
As a tip, you can cut off part of the long threaded shaft to avoid excessive protrusion.
HTH
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Thanks for the answers guys, I cannot believe you were able to get a socket in there! ....I'll have to go look at it again, but there's an inch at the most between the nut and the stock manifold, I don't get it! :confused: FWIW, I've got some nice big yellow urethane mounts that are itching to get in there. :)
*edit* NEVERMIND I'm a moron. I can get a socket in no problem with a swivel and extensions from the top, in front of that manifold pipe. Duh. Thanks guys.
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Haha. I actually went and combined my two 3/8 extensions 17mm small socket and ratchet in a bid to figure out my wizardry :D only to see you figured it out :rolleyes:
Gotta love the simple stumps as they are easier solved than the MAJOR ones and often serve as a good laugh :)
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has anyone tried the Ireland Engineering urethane mount? At $45 each, they're more than the E28 mount but possibly better.
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That's what I just installed, those and urethane trans mounts as well. Drove to work today and personally I think they're great, but I'm by no means a picky judge of NVH issues. There might be a bit more vibration at idle, but no big deal. BTW, my stock mounts were in good shape, I'll toss them up for sale if anyone's interested.
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Can someone please tell me if these e28 mounts will fit a right hand drive uk E30 318is. My mounts need to be changed and i would like to run e28 ones like you guys but the part numbers listed in the above pages are U.S. Spec ones only and do not show up on my UK version of the BMW Parts Catalogue. Any ideas?
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I've got some nice big yellow urethane mounts that are itching to get in there.
Where did you get these from dude?
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Gruppe:
Broke engine and donor engine side by side in the workshop. Hopefully making one good one.
In the parts drawer, many parts replaced on the e30 M3 that really could have been left in there ;-)
I've got a set of the 7 series hydraulic motor mounts (from my M3), which are quite beefier than the M42 mounts (which I should replace, but are not cracked ...yet). This e30 M3 mount is about 1.27 mm taller. I want to put my Sparco bar on top. Intake manifold clearance w/the original mounts was not an issue. Before I try these mounts, anyone have any experience with this particular setup? Any drivetrain alignment issues with that small a height increase?
Also, I think the e30M3 flywheel (19lbs) is going to be a drop-in replacement for the 28lb dual mass disc. We'll see when I strap the starter back in there. The gears rings on both flywheels mesh perfectly. I have a new 228mm clutch kit (oh well, can always buy another one, right?)
cheers!
John Grills
NCC-BMWCCA
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Has anyone here had the (supposedly) infamous problem with the engine mounting ears cracking off of the subframe? M20 guys have had this issue. A stiffer mount probably is not something that would help ni that department. After using these mounts on this car for 9 months I saw no cracks there, but who knows.
Yeah, i had this issue with the stock mounts. Which led me to change the mounts since the subframe was coming out anyway. After installing these mounts, the throttle actually felt more crisp (possibly due to the screwdriver syndrome). Anyway, i barely notice the extra vibration so i would definately say that this is a nice alternative to the stock m42 mounts.
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just finished this mod. i used the later green e28 mounts. had to grind off the little tabs that are supposed to go into the slotted holes because the mounts sit reverse. other than that it was a simple swap. no spacers needed btw. i do feel some vibration at idle like what has been described previously, but it definitely is not unbearable. the mounts really stiffened up the front. i can feel it on turns and acceleration and all out throttle feel is just superb. i definitely recommend these when it comes time to do your motor mounts.
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I just re-did them when I was doing my Z3 steering rack conversion. If you snag a M10x1.5 die & die handle, you can add the threads you need onto the longer partially-threaded posts. This saved me the hassle of dealing with 10 washers and whatnot. Cut them down a little with a hack-saw and you are good to go! When I get home, I will post up the pics of them. My old ones were blows amazingly, but I guess it is to be expected after 3 years and being through a crash on my first car lol.
As for the mount tabs cracking off, I caught a number of cracks forming on the passenger side. I MIG'ed that problem right up! Pics to come!
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Hi chaps, I'm just catching up on this as I have some pattern part E34 mounts and the steering shaft is knocking on the EM due to the engine moving too much and the Z3 rack conversion making things a little tight.
I just want to check, the mounts that you are suggesting are the US spec E28 528 engine mounts, 11811175735, taken from the first thread! The Euro spec part numbers are different so I want to get the correct part number before phoning my local BMW parts place as these will have to be ordered in so need to be correct...
Got prices on M42 mounts and E34 525i mounts as £58 and £33 each respectively, be interesting to see how the E28 ones match up.
Oh, and why don't people use M40 mounts? From what I've found they appear very similar to the E28 items...
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What is the part no. for the "green" ones?
Will those work:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Mount-BMW-E30-3-Series-82-94-/280739741246?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item415d647e3e
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The green ones are P/N 11811132793, sometimes they are not green, but they should be "heavy duty" mounts nonetheless. The black ones are P/N 11811175735 and should be something less than heavy duty.
As for the ebay part, it does appear to be correct.
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Thanks a lot.
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I just installed E24 motor mount ETK number 11 81 1 132 793.
They are huge compared to the M40 motor mounts and installing them was real pain in they ass.
When they were fitted I noticed that the engine leans a bit back more thus giving me more clearance to
the oil pan witch is nice.
But this also concerns me how will this effect my driveline. Does anyone have the measurements
of the stock engine mounts in height. the E24 mounts are 2.4 inch in height and when compressed they are 2.2 inch
Cane someone post the height of the stock mounts?