M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: nickmpower on March 12, 2006, 06:56:31 PM
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Well i overheated my car, and the head cracked. So i got another head from and e36, which the machinest said was perfect, but i had him resurface it anyways along with the valve job. I got all the stuff put back together, made sure the head was seated right, torqued it to 22lbs, then 90degrees, then 90 degrees (seemed pretty damn tight, maybe too much). Now, after driving for a few miles there is oil in the coolant and white stuff (water) in the oil. what fucking gives? what could i have done wrong?
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the profile gasket? i know it was a huge pain in the ass when i had my head off. its super finicky. i'm willing to bet money that if you pull of the timing chain cover on the head that your problem will be there. Oil and coolent flow through there in abundance so check it out when putting it back together use "the right stuff" a thin bead of it along the gasket (the rubber one, not the head gasket).
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When putting it together i checked and as far as i could tell the profile gasket was seated right. It might be left over from the last overheating, but i think there is water comming out th exhaust too.
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Did you have the timing case off as well? There is a HUGE gasket behind it that separates some coolant & oil flow. Other than that, I guess profile gaket, or maybe the head gasket seated improperly?
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Did you have the timing case off as well? There is a HUGE gasket behind it that separates some coolant & oil flow. Other than that, I guess profile gaket, or maybe the head gasket seated improperly?
i thought that was the profile gasket?
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I ran the car for a few more minutes and the water in the cooling system is still crystal clear, and i know its a long shot but im going to try changing the oil and hoping that the white stuff i saw was just some moisture that was in there or the assembly lube
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Good luck, hope it is the case!
The profile gasket is the big rubber one that site between the head & timing case. The one I am referring to lies behind the timing case, between it & the block. Failure there is highly unlikely though.
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yeah i didnt have the timing case off. Im pretty sure the profile gasket was right as i checked it with my work light and the block was also sitting flat on the HG with out the bolts in yet. Jordan said that because i didnt chase the threads (just blew them out with the compressor) that the block might be cracked. I dont know how likely that is, but if its the case, does anyone know where i can source one? while im in there, I might be needing the m47 crank too
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Nick,
I saw that someone on the e30 board on bf.c was parting out a 318is, and they had the engine available, asking $500. You might want to look for that thread. He may be willing to deal, since iirc there has not been much interest in that thread.
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Nick,
I saw that someone on the e30 board on bf.c was parting out a 318is, and they had the engine available, asking $500. You might want to look for that thread. He may be willing to deal, since iirc there has not been much interest in that thread.
If it was the guy in Boulder colorado I am going to pick up the motor whenever he gets it out of the car. There are a few other 318's aprting out though. Check on r3v.
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well i just drained the oil, and it didnt look too bad. There was some white, but no more then you would get from just blowing on it up close. I put the plug back on for now to keep moisture out but tmr morning im going to take it off to get any remaining oil out, then fill it and test drive. The block was sitting there for almost a month with just a towel over it, in an unheated garage, so maybe there is hope.
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fuck, it happend again. I'll go to the dealer to get all the gaskets, then start working on it today
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You should sit back and take a look at all your issues with the car to date. Is it your handywork/rushing through the work you do with the car or other reasons why your car always has issues?
Plan your approach before you take your next steps at least.
Good luck
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I think all i can do now is take the head off and check for messed gaskets, cracked block, ect. I hope it didnt do any permanent damage to it
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just got the head off, didnt find any thing too out of the ordanary, but the HG was wet in a couple spots, mainly in the lower left corner, dont know if thats from when i took it off or not. Check the pics and tell me what you think, and do the cyl walls look normal?
I checked the block for cracks and didnt find any, could there be one that i couldnt see? also where can i get those special disks that you stick on the drill clean the top of the bock? some place like the auto parts store or some place like home depot? I am also in pregress of testing the water temp sender.
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00095.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00105.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00114.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00115.JPG)
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(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00117.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00121.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00124.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00129.JPG)
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(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC09999.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00096.JPG)
(http://www.nicktenhulzen.com/new318/rebuild/HG/DSC00108.JPG)
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some good pictures there! as for cracks in the block, yes you can have cracks that you can't see... hopfuly you don't have any. that water usualy happens when you take the head off cause the coolant passsages are so close. i wouldn't worry about it yet....
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Well dont know what the problem could be?
I just sanded the block down real nice with some 1500 grit and a sanding block. I am hesitant to but it back together because it might do it agian. I might need another gasket that goes between the head and intake too.
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was there water in the oil?
also pull off the rubber gaskets that surround the timing chain and take a look at them to see if they were or are sealing correctly. it looks as tho it might have been leaking.
another thing just FYI don't use scilicon any more, use "the right stuff" its much more reliable, its very flexible, high temp, and it works 10x better then scilicon.
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the profile gasket looked like it was seated right when i pulled the head off, and i couldnt see any places where it was pinched or anything. I have a new bmw one and i will try to glue it in place before i put the head on. The stuff i used was ultra copper but i will try to find some of the right stuff. On monday i guess i'll call the machinest to make sure that he pressure tested this head since i brought in a total of 3 there. He said it was so straight it didnt need resurfacing but i had him do it anyways
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yeah good idea to get it resurfaced. i used to use ultra copper, but i switched to the right stuff, its a little more expensive but its worth it.
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im wondering how the oil and water were mixing if the block isnt cracked?
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that gasket keeps them seperated, so if its leaking that is the case.
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I'm quite sure that it wasnt leaking though
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I'm quite sure that it wasnt leaking though
thats what im afraid of... lets see here... what else could cause oil in coolant...to be honest i really only thing those are the 2 possibilities, a cracked block, or a leaking gasket.
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well i talked to the german car shop in the area, and they didnt know what i could have ppossibly done wrong. I'm working there this week so i might see if i can have it towed there.
am i missing somehting here?
put gasket on
put profile gasket on
put head on and make sure its seated
put bolts in finger tight
torque in the order in the bentley to 22lbs
turn all 90 degrees
turn all 90 degrees agian
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I think maybe i will fill the block and head water passages with water. I will probably have to tape off the bottom section of the block, and tape off the t stat housing on the head, but it should give me an idea if anything is cracked, though maybe it would need to be heated to open up?
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I've suggested this before and will reiterate it, this problem seems beyond your compentency, so why not take it to a professional to get it taken care of. Hope you don't take this the wrong way... just my 2 cents.
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I've suggested this before and will reiterate it, this problem seems beyond your compentency, so why not take it to a professional to get it taken care of. Hope you don't take this the wrong way... just my 2 cents.
+1 if you can't find the problem now, or the crack then filling it up with water wont do it as the crack will only open with heat and presure. you can get this tested by a machine shop but the block needs to be bare i THINK. you should check tho..
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+1 if you can't find the problem now, or the crack then filling it up with water wont do it as the crack will only open with heat and presure. you can get this tested by a machine shop but the block needs to be bare i THINK. you should check tho..
+2. I'm all for saving money and having the pride of doing it yourself, but sometimes it's best to have a professional do it so you can be sure the job's done right.
Brian
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+1 if you can't find the problem now, or the crack then filling it up with water wont do it as the crack will only open with heat and presure. you can get this tested by a machine shop but the block needs to be bare i THINK. you should check tho..
ya, they do have to be bare to test them.
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+1 if you can't find the problem now, or the crack then filling it up with water wont do it as the crack will only open with heat and presure. you can get this tested by a machine shop but the block needs to be bare i THINK. you should check tho..
Well if i let it sit for a few days then something might happen. beats stripping taking the engine out and stripping it down
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i know it sounds like overkill, but how much does it cost to buy an m42 engine over there? here its so cheap that if you're having serious problems like that you'd be better served to find a good e36 complete engine and put it in. you can then sell on all your bits if required etc.
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if i have to take this engine out, a 2.1l one is going in
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Well if i let it sit for a few days then something might happen. beats stripping taking the engine out and stripping it down
I wouldn't bet upon that stuff, but I'd follow the tried and true method. Never know if the tape is leaking and such
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When I first got my car I was horrified at the big globs of RTV at the timing case/ block interface. I eventually learned of the infamous profile gasket issue. BMW issued a tech bullitin that said, in effect, "use tons of sealing adhesive when installing a profile gasket." I'm pretty sure my car was dealer maintained before I got it, and I think what I didn't like was actually the way it was supposed to be. I would suspect the profile gassket sealing before cracks in the block. Try to find the service instruction. I think I learned about it on bimmerdiy...
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well the techs at the shop i work at said they cant think of what i could have done wrong. I guess tmr I may put it back together again. I have gotten the block very clean and now have bmw brand head and profile gaskets. I will use sealer on the profile too. any tips or anything?
and is this all right?
put gasket on
put profile gasket on
put head on and make sure its seated
put bolts in finger tight
torque in the order in the bentley to 22lbs
turn all 90 degrees
turn all 90 degrees agian
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Just curious. How did you make uot the 2nd time on this? If you were to ask me, I think the previous replies made sense to me about the profile gasket. Also the 3 way joints in the timing chain cover need some sealant, too. Anyway, give us an update if you have one. And don't worry about not getting it perfect the first time.