M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: LPCapital on November 02, 2009, 12:07:54 PM
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I know this is not really an M42, but the similarities between the two engines are just too many, and I hope others here would benefit from my learnings. Also I decided to post this here in the FI section because of the reason I installed the oil cooler.
A little background: the car is a 1998 Z3 with an M44. I added a Downing Atlanta supercharger kit and got the ECU tuned to run on larger injectors and 3" MAF... I put a lot of work into making the car looks stock, to the point of custom fitting a 6 cylinder's airbox (the stock airbox would not accomodate the 3" MAF). Here's a pix of the final result:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/ECU%20software/DSC03190.jpg)
The SC is not intercooled and generate, I beleive, a great deal of heat. I haven't measured the oil temperature, but I know the endurance of the car is affected. So I started looking into adding an oil cooler and an intercooler. I decided to start with the oil cooler...
The first idea was replace the stock oil filter housing with the M42 oil filter housing: the M42 has the same oil filter cap as the 6 cyclinders so I though Irelenad Engineering cap was gonna fit. They managed to fit the cap, but they couldn't find a filter to use so I decided to go a different route.
Through this forum I learned about the Mocal takeoff plate and I bought one from Bat Inc, the Mocal importer here in the US. The problem I'm having now, is that the alternator bracket won't fit once I install the fittings on the plate. I will modify the plate to make it fit.
I took a ton of pix and will post 'em all once I get them organized...
But here's the question now: the oil cooler I'm using is from Ireland Engineering and comes with -8AN ports pre-installed. Based on your guys' experience, are -8AN enough, or -10AN are a must. I would rather use -8AN partially because the whole setup is cheaper (and to be honest I already bought -8AN oil lines and hose ends), but also it will be less bulky? Thanks for any feedback.
Here's a couple of pix of what I got done so far:
Cooler mounted:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03263.jpg)
Remote oil filter assembly with thermostat sandwitch plate (I actually end up using a top feed oil filter mount because the sid didn't fit):
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03236.jpg)
The oil filter installed near the power steering reservoir with a custom bracket:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03256.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03257.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03258.jpg)
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nice pics, nice setup.
i like the effort in the stock look!
more pics of the whole car.
how do you find the suspension on the z3 compared to other bimmers?
david
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Be interested to see the moded alternator bracket and take off plate. I didn't have an issue with mine as I moved the alternator for my SC brackets.
Fitting an oil cooler will help lower engine temps (I'd personaly fit a bigger rad first) but it wont stop the super charger from bellowing hot air into the engine, with this type of design (charger directly onto the plenum(and especialy a roots pump)), you're a little stuffed for intercooling. The thing to try is maybe water injection but I don't know how good/bad it is?
What sort of power are you producing?
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I run AN8 in my oil cooler circuit in my turbo'ed M42. No problems with oil pressure. Have been running it like this for 2 years on both street and track days so it's being used hard.
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I run AN8 in my oil cooler circuit in my turbo'ed M42. No problems with oil pressure. Have been running it like this for 2 years on both street and track days so it's being used hard.
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for... Thanks for the comment
Be interested to see the moded alternator bracket and take off plate. I didn't have an issue with mine as I moved the alternator for my SC brackets.
Fitting an oil cooler will help lower engine temps (I'd personaly fit a bigger rad first) but it wont stop the super charger from bellowing hot air into the engine, with this type of design (charger directly onto the plenum(and especialy a roots pump)), you're a little stuffed for intercooling. The thing to try is maybe water injection but I don't know how good/bad it is?
What sort of power are you producing?
I'm not sure I will modify the alternator bracket, I would rather modify the takeoff plate only. But I'll post updates. I'm waiting for BAT Inc (is the importer in the US for Mocal) to receive a couple things I'm returning so they can give me credit to buy a few other things to modify the plate.
And I totally agree with you: an oil cooler will not replace an intercooler, but it will still remove a ton of heat. As for the SC, once the oil cooler project is done, I will work on the intercooler. I will go with an air-water kit and use Laminova cores (probably 2, maybe 3). It will require to modify the plenum and slightly relocate the SC... Not sure when it will materialize, but eventually I'll work on that too.
As for power, I don't have a number off of my car. I'm not interested in dyno or anything like that. However the guy who retuned my ECU said was at around 190 at the wheels.
nice pics, nice setup.
i like the effort in the stock look!
more pics of the whole car.
how do you find the suspension on the z3 compared to other bimmers?
david
I will post pix as soon as I get everything sorted out. As far as the suspensions goes, a lot of people complain about the "dated" E30 design. I think it's beatufully simple and effective. No complains there. However, as always, the stock setup is too confortable. In mine I replaced all the rear rubbe rwith uretane, added toe & kamber adjustment plate, and went with a mild spring & shocks kit from Racing Dynamics. I'm pleased with the results. Next things I would like to do is stiffen up the front a little (still all rubber) and add camber plates to dial out some understeer I get.
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Here's a couple of other pix.
This is the thermostat sandwitch plate from Jegs which I modified to add the oil temp sender (on the hot side). I added a bras bushing to allow the oil to surround the sender...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03266.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03268.jpg)
These are the oil lines I'm making: -8AN, the lines are Aeroquip FC333 racing hose, while the hose ends are from BAT Inc.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03274.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03275.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03276.jpg)
Here's the gauges all wired in:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03252.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03260.jpg)
And here's what I'm dealing with now. Here's the engine without the oil filter housing
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03282.jpg)
And here's the plate. You can notice how close is to the alternator bracket. The purpose of the cork is to measure the clearance I have...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03279.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03280.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03281.jpg)
What I'm gonna do, probably, is take a 90 deg fitting, probably -8AN on one side and 1/2" NPT on the other, shorten the 1/2" NPT and probalby shorten the outlet on the plate as well and weld the angle fitting on the plate. This will allow me to minimize the hight and make it fit...
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This looks like a really nice project, but the only picture working is the first picture in the first post!
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This looks like a really nice project, but the only picture working is the first picture in the first post!
Sorry for the inconvenience: I was doing some house cleaning on Photobucket and end up messing up the links... Now they should work
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I am not shure, but I think that your fitting or hose for the these fittings are wrong. I think there should be no gap between fitting and hose.
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I have had the problem in the past, there are some slight size differences form manufacturer to manufacturer. If you are using Aeroquip hose you should use Aeroquip hose.
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Yes, you should use correct hose with correct fittings. The fittings do not fit all hoses.
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Thanks for fixing the links....project looks great!
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Ah the M44 bracket is different to the E30 M42 one.
Can you get a banjo fitting in there? Looks like you can squeeze one in.
I used all 1/2" BSP Aeroquip hoses and fittings for mine.
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I checked with BAT for the Banjo and the -8AN banjo with the washers and bolt is 1 1/4" tall, way more than what I have... Not to mention that each Banjo set is $50...
As far as the hose ends goes, there is no gap. What you see is a chamfer on the end to be able to slip the steel braid. The hose ends are specifically designed to fit the Aeroquip FC333 hose I'm using
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quick question on the dasc. was your kit specific to the year of your car?
i have a 94-95 kit and planning to install it on a m44 z3 (still shopping for the car.)
do you know if i should be anticipating a huge problem? thx!
David
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Are those VPD filter housing caps not available anymore?
Im pretty sure they bolt on or only need a little modification to fit.
Looking at your bracket it looks like you have acess to a tig welder. Is it possible to just weld fittings on an m42 oil filter housing cap(there aluminum)?
Nice work so far.
Ill be interested to see how much of a difference it makes.
Hunter
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Where did you get that plate? I've tried but cannot find a link to it.
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Sorry fellas, didn't mean to disappear, but for some reason I don't get email notification from this forum when someone replies to my threads. I've noticed it in the past and have forgotten to check it lately.
quick question on the dasc. was your kit specific to the year of your car?
i have a 94-95 kit and planning to install it on a m44 z3 (still shopping for the car.)
do you know if i should be anticipating a huge problem? thx!
David
I know there are few "minor" differences between the vairous years. I'm not sure which, but I'm sure if you give a call to DA (http://downingatlanta.com/downingatlanta/da_superchargers_new.htm) and speak to Jim Goodroe he'll be able to give you all the detials. They have spare parts, so he'll likely be able to supply you with whatever you might not have in your kit
Are those VPD filter housing caps not available anymore?
Im pretty sure they bolt on or only need a little modification to fit.
Looking at your bracket it looks like you have acess to a tig welder. Is it possible to just weld fittings on an m42 oil filter housing cap(there aluminum)?
Nice work so far.
Ill be interested to see how much of a difference it makes.
Hunter
Based on what I was told by Ireland Engineering, oil inside the housing get pumped on the outside of the filter, goes through the cartridge and than flows down the central spindle. Their cap basically blocks off the passage between the oil filter and the center spindle: it intercept the oil after it has passed through the filter, allows you do whatever you wanna do with that oil and then, through the return line, puts it back into the center spindle. Just adding a fitting on the cap won't work, cuz you won't have flow: the oil will go thorugh the path of least resistance which is directly from the filter to the center spindle. That's why you need a modified oil filter housing cap.
The cap that IE makes fit and sits tight. The problem is that the filter element won't and they couldn't find one that would
Hopefully this makes sense...
Where did you get that plate? I've tried but cannot find a link to it.
In the US the plate can be bought from BAT Inc while in the ROW is sold from Thinkauto.com. Thinkauto is the manufacturer of Mocal products, while BAT is their importer in the US.
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I couldn't get the elbows on the takeoff plate to hold pressure (I was trying to pair a 1/2" NPT with a 22mm: they are close, but not enough): I decided to go brute force and TIG weld it. That took care of it:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03311.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03312.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03314.jpg)
And here's the final result:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03359.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03360.jpg)
I cut out a hole to route the hoses nicely:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03361.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03362.jpg)
I had to modify the alternator bracket a bit to be able to clear the elbows:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03363.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03369.jpg)
The oil filter & thermostat (along with the senders for the instruments) fits tight under the airbox. It also make the replacement of the filter cartridge very accessible.
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03364.jpg)
And of course, a couple of pix of the engine bay which looks... stock...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03366.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03367.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03368.jpg)
Here's a closeup of the modified thermostat sandwich plate (the filter is a Ford PH8)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03266.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03268.jpg)
A couple more pix of the oil filter bracket prior the installment:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03269.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03270.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/DSC03271.jpg)
Enjoy!!
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Nice work and great pics.
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Details on welder?
Work looks great
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Details on welder?
Work looks great
Is a guy local. Very quality stuff: he's the one I use when I install the rear toe & camber kit on cars with E30-like subframe as well as other intake modifications
His name is Tho and this is website: http://www.timemachineracecraft.com/
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Are you saying that Ireland oil cooler adapter for theE36 M5x will work with E36 M42s? That would be awesome.
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Gday mate,
great progress, love your work.
I was just wondering, the oil filter take off plate, was the back of it flat or did it have some machined cutouts for the oil relief valve circuit? If you happened to take a picture that would be even better.
Do either of your remote oil filter/thermostat plates have provisions for a check valve? How is startup, does oil pressure comeup straight away?
Thanks,
Chris
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Gday mate,
great progress, love your work.
Thanks!!!
I was just wondering, the oil filter take off plate, was the back of it flat or did it have some machined cutouts for the oil relief valve circuit? If you happened to take a picture that would be even better.
The filter cartrigdge has a bypass walve that opens when the pressure differential between pre- and post- filter is above 12PSI.
Here's the filter cartridge I'm using. It's the XtendGuard version of the PH8A filter, common on Ford's blocks.
http://www.power-21.com/FramPower21i/PartDetail.aspx?b=F&pn=XG8A
Do either of your remote oil filter/thermostat plates have provisions for a check valve? How is startup, does oil pressure comeup straight away?
There's actually 2 check valves.
One fits on the plate, as the BMW's one and prevents oil to drain back from the head.
Here's a pix from this (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7700) thread:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/lpcapital/Oil%20Cooler/IMG_3241.jpg)
The second check valve is built into the oil filter cartridge, as described in the filter specs (see above).
I haven't notice any change in the amount of time required for the low pressure light to go off or noticed any ticking noise from the valvetrain at cold startup. Everything seams the same.
I have an electronic pressure gauge which starts moving about 1 to 2 seconds after starting and goes straight to 60PSI (again, this is at cold start).
Are you saying that Ireland oil cooler adapter for theE36 M5x will work with E36 M42s? That would be awesome.
It fits, but since it's different, inside, the oil filter won't. That's why I had to go this route.
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Nice one dude looks good!
Do you have a temp gauge fitted? Can you post up some temp readings? Interested to see what they are.
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Nice one dude looks good!
Do you have a temp gauge fitted? Can you post up some temp readings? Interested to see what they are.
The car is my DD and the needle sets right around 180 on freeway drives. This is when outside temp is around in the low 60s; it gets closer to 200 in stop & go traffic.
I went on a spirited drive on Saturday an played with a friend in an S52 ///M coupe around some uphill twisties and the highest I got it was 220 which is perfect, IMO. This was driving up hill on and off the throttle keeping the car in boost between 4K and 6K. Outside temp was between 60 and 70...
I noticed the car was behaving very well, without "getting tired" as it used to (I didn't have a temp gauge before, so I don't know). Oil pressure was optimal too Consistently around 70PSI.
I would suggest anyway, and thinking about doing it later to use a high temp thermostat instead of the one I used: Mocal has one set at 204F instead of 180F. This shouldn't affect the oil temp under heavy load, but keep the oil warmer and maybe accelerate warmup when under light load...
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Yeah 220 is pretty much optimum. Definantly don't want it much lower than 180 though but guess the thermostat keeps that in check.
Very much considering one for mine once the Rotrex is fitted but keen to see some before temps first for the comparison.
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Yeah 220 is pretty much optimum. Definantly don't want it much lower than 180 though but guess the thermostat keeps that in check.
Very much considering one for mine once the Rotrex is fitted but keen to see some before temps first for the comparison.
That's really why I would highly recommend a high temp thermo: it will just rise the lower temp without affecting the high temp. Let me know how it goes!!!
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God knows when I'll have some figures but watch this space :rolleyes: